The general fan base doesn’t demand it.

ssckelley

Well-Known Member
He hasn't done that cause of bad and slow adjustments, weak use of transfers, not getting or coaching up guards very well. Defense that has been bad much of the time and when it does better it also comes and goes. Too up an down and too little consistency in the play on both ends of the floor. Too many routs in big games. Overall under 500 in the big ten, under .500 in the conference tourney, under .500 in the NCAA tourney including 0-6 in the second round.

They play more games than they used to. 20 in conference and a tourney. Winning 20 games isn't that big anymore. W. ILL, Utah State, SE LA, Longwood, UMKC, AL State, NC Central, Portland State, W MI. 10 gimmes and then 21 conference games means you can go under .500 10-11 in the conference and hit 20. 20 wins is the least they should do.

I would have brought in Mike Anderson as coach a couple of years back. I know the Barta would not do better and probably worse thing but Fran, like with Turgeon, is really time to move on. Remember that definition of crazy - where expecting different results with the same thing each year. Same Fran will always underperform. I don't see Fran really learning or changing for the better. Just being under .500 and getting outcoached more often than not.

It would be so nice to have a Kevin Willard or some such real solid coach and see quick changes, better sub patterns, players come on quicker and real higher potential, and have more games be close and have a better taste in the mouth even with ones we lose.
They've been playing cream puff games since before Tom Davis got here, where the hell have you been? His conference record doesn't look great because he did have one hell of a mess to clean up.

It's amazing how Iowa faces a little adversity and people start bitching about Fran. No different than the football board, lose a game and people want coaching changes.
 

longtimer

Well-Known Member
Hey lets just see how it all plays out. But one quick question out of curiosity do you think Fran would still be coaching at Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Illinois with the his body of work at Iowa
 

Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
Lol at the “Duke became Duke” rationalization.

Duke became Duke by sheer luck because Mike Krcyzewsczesyskczewski was a green horn that no one knew would start a dynasty. And for every Coach Kay there have been tens of thousands of total flops.

That’s like saying, “Johnny won the Powerball last week, there’s no reason I shouldn’t win it this week!” It’s completely ridiculous.
Duke was close to being Duke before K showed up.

They made it to the championship game three years before K arrived and were producing dependable NBA players like Gene Banks, Mike Gminski, and Jim Spanarkel.

It was K's first three years at Duke that he nearly crashed and burned. While North Carolina and NC State were cutting down nets and Virgina had Ralph Sampson Duke was treading water. K set the tone in 1983 when his Dukies were annihilated in the conference tournament by Virginia and the staff was eating at a restaurant. One assistant proposed a toast to "forgetting tonight". K famously said "here's to never forgetting tonight"

The tone was set. K had a stellar class coming in with Johnny Dawkins, Jay Bilas and others. They were in the dance the next year and never looked back.
 
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ssckelley

Well-Known Member
Hey lets just see how it all plays out. But one quick question out of curiosity do you think Fran would still be coaching at Indiana, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Illinois with the his body of work at Iowa

Completely different situation.
 

trj

Well-Known Member
Duke was close to being Duke before K showed up.

They made it to the championship game three years before K arrived and were producing dependable NBA players like Gene Banks, Mike Gminski, and Jim Spanarkel.

It was K's first three years at Duke that he nearly crashed and burned. While North Carolina and NC State were cutting down nets and Virgina had Ralph Sampson Duke was treading water. K set the tone in 1983 when his Dukies were annihilated in the conference tournament by Virginia and the staff was eating at a restaurant. One assistant proposed a toast to "forgetting tonight". K famously said "here's to never forgetting tonight"

The tone was set. K had a stellar class coming in with Johnny Dawkins, Jay Bilas and others. They were in the dance the next year and never looked back.

Yep. By year 4 many wanted Coach K out. It was the AD(forgot his name) that stood by him. That Dawkins, Alarie and Bilas class came in and as you stated they never looked back.
 
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trj

Well-Known Member
With about 4 or 5 exceptions this has been Iowa basketball for the last 40+ years. Other than Lute, Fran has given you similar if not better results than the previous 4 head coaches. I just want consistency with this. If the OP wants Fran gone....I hope he was crying about Raveling, Dr.Tom, Alford and Lickliter as well.
 

ssckelley

Well-Known Member
With about 4 or 5 exceptions this has been Iowa basketball for the last 40+ years. Other than Lute, Fran has given you similar if not better results than the previous 4 head coaches. I just want consistency with this. If the OP wants Fran gone....I hope he was crying about Raveling, Dr.Tom, Alford and Lickliter as well.
Guys like him is why Tom Davis got fired.
 

ajdwhs87

Well-Known Member
They've been playing cream puff games since before Tom Davis got here, where the hell have you been? His conference record doesn't look great because he did have one hell of a mess to clean up.

It's amazing how Iowa faces a little adversity and people start bitching about Fran. No different than the football board, lose a game and people want coaching changes.
It is year twelve. How long can you use that cleaning up a mess excuse?

I've seen Fran's warts pretty much from the get go. Gave him plenty of time and fair chance to see how he developed and got used to the conference. A chance to recruit better guards and coach them up. To get better in game. Minimal improvement and still issues. Issues that won't get us that next bit further that we should go and not underperform. So we can have a POY and be more competetive than a 15 point second round loss. Just had enough cause it hasn't improved enough in plenty of time(double digit seasons). Again, how many years does it take?

You can equate iowa's 20 wins with other schools 20 wins even if they play a tougher shcedule and challenge themselves more. you can keep talking like it is year 4 in the Fran journey. You can ignore the actual games and scores and pretend we are more competetive in so many of the big games. It isn't true and we could and should do a step better than we do and on a more regular basis.
 

Northside Hawk

Well-Known Member
Yep. By year 4 many wanted Coach K out. It was the AD(forgot his name) that stood by him. That Dawkins, Alarie and Bilas class came in and as you stated they never looked back.
I don't remember the AD's name either, but he nearly fumbled K away to another school that also offered him their open job.

The other school, and this is no bullshit, was Iowa State. The Clones did end up hiring Johnny Orr but came very, very close to having K. That story has been discussed on these boards before.
 

BigD

Well-Known Member
It is year twelve. How long can you use that cleaning up a mess excuse?

I've seen Fran's warts pretty much from the get go. Gave him plenty of time and fair chance to see how he developed and got used to the conference. A chance to recruit better guards and coach them up. To get better in game. Minimal improvement and still issues. Issues that won't get us that next bit further that we should go and not underperform. So we can have a POY and be more competetive than a 15 point second round loss. Just had enough cause it hasn't improved enough in plenty of time(double digit seasons). Again, how many years does it take?

You can equate iowa's 20 wins with other schools 20 wins even if they play a tougher shcedule and challenge themselves more. you can keep talking like it is year 4 in the Fran journey. You can ignore the actual games and scores and pretend we are more competetive in so many of the big games. It isn't true and we could and should do a step better than we do and on a more regular basis.
No one can argue that Fran has failed as a tournament coach. Not the getting their part but the winning once you get there. Why I don’t know. Is he a choker under pressure? If I had to guess I would say his inability to recruit top level point guards. When we play top level schools our perimeter defense is very poor and the same guys can’t stay with their guys and then the interior defense collapses leading to easy baskets in the lane. There’s that DEFENSE word again.

Offense good! Defense SUCKS!
 

1980HAWKFAN

Well-Known Member
I'll just throw this out there for you posters who are good at digging up stats. Name the last Big Ten champion or National Champ who didn't have a really good point guard. In my opinion, the definition of a really good point guard is he can defend, he can drive and score or pass, he can light you up off the dribble. 2021 Suggs.
 

HawkPrdatr40

Well-Known Member
Fran can't get out of his own way!! Take Purdue for example they have starters from last year that come off the bench, Why? because he understands the best players need to be on the court. Sure Iowa isn't getting the talent Painter is but it's all relative with respect to the best players need to be on the court. Fran doesn't operate in that fashion which is ridiculous at this level and he's done that since he has been at Iowa. Fran IMO just is an average coach with IMO above average talent that isn't able to reach it's full potential..
 

HuckFinn

Well-Known Member
Fran can't get out of his own way!! Take Purdue for example they have starters from last year that come off the bench, Why? because he understands the best players need to be on the court. Sure Iowa isn't getting the talent Painter is but it's all relative with respect to the best players need to be on the court. Fran doesn't operate in that fashion which is ridiculous at this level and he's done that since he has been at Iowa. Fran IMO just is an average coach with IMO above average talent that isn't able to reach it's full potential..
Yawn
 

Knight78

Well-Known Member
Fran can't get out of his own way!! Take Purdue for example they have starters from last year that come off the bench, Why? because he understands the best players need to be on the court. Sure Iowa isn't getting the talent Painter is but it's all relative with respect to the best players need to be on the court. Fran doesn't operate in that fashion which is ridiculous at this level and he's done that since he has been at Iowa. Fran IMO just is an average coach with IMO above average talent that isn't able to reach it's full potential..
Yes, those Purdue players come off the bench this year, but....... who is in at the end of the game? Yup, those players who came off the bench. As I told all the players I ever coached: It's not important who starts the game, it's important who FINISHES the game.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
Fran can't get out of his own way!! Take Purdue for example they have starters from last year that come off the bench, Why? because he understands the best players need to be on the court. Sure Iowa isn't getting the talent Painter is but it's all relative with respect to the best players need to be on the court. Fran doesn't operate in that fashion which is ridiculous at this level and he's done that since he has been at Iowa. Fran IMO just is an average coach with IMO above average talent that isn't able to reach it's full potential..
Connor is coming off the bench this year and Bohannon's minutes are dropping a lot. There are quite a few examples of Fran benching past starters. Clemmons, Basabe, Uhl, Williams, Connor, McCabe, May. Those are off the top of my head.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
No one can argue that Fran has failed as a tournament coach. Not the getting their part but the winning once you get there. Why I don’t know. Is he a choker under pressure? If I had to guess I would say his inability to recruit top level point guards. When we play top level schools our perimeter defense is very poor and the same guys can’t stay with their guys and then the interior defense collapses leading to easy baskets in the lane. There’s that DEFENSE word again.

Offense good! Defense SUCKS!
Fran has done decent in the NCAA tournament. It's the Big 10 tournament he's had bad results in.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
It is year twelve. How long can you use that cleaning up a mess excuse?

I've seen Fran's warts pretty much from the get go. Gave him plenty of time and fair chance to see how he developed and got used to the conference. A chance to recruit better guards and coach them up. To get better in game. Minimal improvement and still issues. Issues that won't get us that next bit further that we should go and not underperform. So we can have a POY and be more competetive than a 15 point second round loss. Just had enough cause it hasn't improved enough in plenty of time(double digit seasons). Again, how many years does it take?

You can equate iowa's 20 wins with other schools 20 wins even if they play a tougher shcedule and challenge themselves more. you can keep talking like it is year 4 in the Fran journey. You can ignore the actual games and scores and pretend we are more competetive in so many of the big games. It isn't true and we could and should do a step better than we do and on a more regular basis.
He didn't use the inheriting a dumpster fire excuse for how things are going in year 12. He used it as a rebuttal for you saying his conference record is bad. It doesn't matter if he's in year 12, year 20, or year 30, his conference record will always be worse than it should be because of the first 2 years.
 

DrKnipe

Well-Known Member
I would cheat, cheat, cheat! Pay players, pay the families, cheat in recruiting! Win at all costs. Get kids to do their homework. Just win.
 

blubberhawk

Well-Known Member
It is year twelve. How long can you use that cleaning up a mess excuse?

I've seen Fran's warts pretty much from the get go. Gave him plenty of time and fair chance to see how he developed and got used to the conference. A chance to recruit better guards and coach them up. To get better in game. Minimal improvement and still issues. Issues that won't get us that next bit further that we should go and not underperform. So we can have a POY and be more competetive than a 15 point second round loss. Just had enough cause it hasn't improved enough in plenty of time(double digit seasons). Again, how many years does it take?

You can equate iowa's 20 wins with other schools 20 wins even if they play a tougher shcedule and challenge themselves more. you can keep talking like it is year 4 in the Fran journey. You can ignore the actual games and scores and pretend we are more competetive in so many of the big games. It isn't true and we could and should do a step better than we do and on a more regular basis.
Well, at least we are not finishing last every year. Fran has us right there in the lower middle every year. According to FryIowa and his ass kissing buddies, all should be happy.

The hated Steve Alford has just about as many NCAA tourney wins as Fran in half the years.
Alford = 13-6 in BIG tourney games and 2 titles.
Fran = 5-10 in BIG tourney games with not even one good run in the tourney.
Their overall winning % is very close.
Northwestern's previous coach is the only coach with a worse winning % than Fran in BIG tourney games.
All is well. Fran is signed through 2028 so the good times should just keep on coming.
 
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