The general fan base doesn’t demand it.

L

longtimer

Well-Known Member
I have been an Iowa fan for 60 years. I remember Don Nelson on a team that most of the players were declared ineligible almost beat a great Ohio State team. Enter Ralph Miller from Witchita. Puts together a team that wins the Big Ten 14-0 averages over 100 ;points a game and if Burrows doesnt tip that last shot in maybe NC. I remember Dick Schultz in early 70s nice guy couldn't recruit nice guy. Enter an unknown Lute Olsen. Takes a team to final 4 and if Lester doesn't get hurt maybe farther. Raveling in 83. Recruits Marble Armstrong Gamble and Horten and then Tom Davis takes over and has a number 1 team that makes a great run in the tournament
Yes we have hired some losers like Lick but even Alford won championships and made the tournament

Sure if we change coaches we may get a loser especially with Barta making the choices but we are never going anywhere with McCaffrey. No championships 5 tournaments with big wins over teams like Temple, Davidson and Grand Canyon Never making the sweet 16. This team is going nowhere and why would you expect better next year. Any Power 5 program but Iowa and he would have been gone by now (see Maryland)

I will always be an Iowa fan but never a part of a fan base that is content with what Iowa has achieved under McCaffrey

PS Hayden Fry took over a football team that had not won in 20 years and made them an exciting winning championship team that put us on the national scene and it is a lot harder to do that in football than it is in basketball
 
longtimer said:
I have been an Iowa fan for 60 years. I remember Don Nelson on a team that most of the players were declared ineligible almost beat a great Ohio State team. Enter Ralph Miller from Witchita. Puts together a team that wins the Big Ten 14-0 averages over 100 ;points a game and if Burrows doesnt tip that last shot in maybe NC. I remember Dick Schultz in early 70s nice guy couldn't recruit nice guy. Enter an unknown Lute Olsen. Takes a team to final 4 and if Lester doesn't get hurt maybe farther. Raveling in 83. Recruits Marble Armstrong Gamble and Horten and then Tom Davis takes over and has a number 1 team that makes a great run in the tournament
Yes we have hired some losers like Lick but even Alford won championships and made the tournament

Sure if we change coaches we may get a loser especially with Barta making the choices but we are never going anywhere with McCaffrey. No championships 5 tournaments with big wins over teams like Temple, Davidson and Grand Canyon Never making the sweet 16. This team is going nowhere and why would you expect better next year. Any Power 5 program but Iowa and he would have been gone by now (see Maryland)

I will always be an Iowa fan but never a part of a fan base that is content with what Iowa has achieved under McCaffrey

PS Hayden Fry took over a football team that had not won in 20 years and made them an exciting winning championship team that put us on the national scene and it is a lot harder to do that in football than it is in basketball
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Wish Iowa had a Washington DC and Baltimore metropolitan area in which to recruit from like Maryland does. WE ARE FROM SMALL FRICKEN IOWA! Population 3 million and they share it with another P5 school. Times are different than they were 50-60 years ago. If Iowa could find another Raveling to pull recruits out of Michigan my guess is they couldn't afford him.

You remember all those glory days but did you forget what happened in the late 90s? Did you forget how quickly the basketball program turned to shit after Tom Davis left? That's reality! That could easily happen again.
 
longtimer said:
Sure if we change coaches we may get a loser
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Horrible, illogical take.

The chances of hiring a dud are thousands of times greater than hiring an improvement. That's not conjecture, that's math. Not debatable.

What you're suggesting is akin to, "Well, I'm only breaking even at this slot machine, I need to keep playing because I'll surely win..."

Fran took over a complete tire fire of a program and turned it into a .590 WP over 12 years, with only two losing seasons over that stretch. He's not scandalous, not a cheater, and his players all love him. There are literally hundreds of D1 coaches every year who can't get a winning record in one season, let alone 10 out of 12 years in the B1G.
 
The last 2 hires have proven you can't just stick anyone in this job and it will work. If you've been a fan for 60 years, then you know Iowa has only made it to the Sweet 16 or further 6 times in those 60 years. 6 times... in 60 years. Don't act like you come from some old time where the fan base demanded excellence cause that's bullshit. You've been content with Iowa basketball a whole F ton longer than a lot of us.

If your program only makes the Sweet 16 6 times in 60 years, it might not matter who the coach is cause that's fucking horrible. Not to mention only 3 conference titles in those 60 years and all of them before 1980.

I'm not "content" with Fran either, but he's doing an above average job at a school that hasn't tasted very much basketball success ever. Some of us enjoy having a competitive team that is fun to watch that churns out some really good, high caliber players who win a lot of games. Why is that so bad?
 
WE JUST ABOUT WON THE GOD DAMNED NIT A FEW YEARS AGO. If you've been a fan that long, you know good and damned well that such an honor carries serious weight.

Anyway, the game has changed. Every small school is throwing ungodly money into their hoops program because they have realized that a good basketball run is better than spending 10x the cost of basketball on regular advertising. Davidson gets a ton of run for Steph Curry going there. FGCU saw apps go up exponentially. It isn't 1978 anymore.

I think this team can make a big NIT run.
 
I guess my question is what is a logical expectation for how the season's gone so far based on what we lost last year and the unknowns we face this year. IF it's based on his overall body of work that's one thing, but if its based off what's going on this year I think one needs to look internally as they may have set the bar way to high and reestablish some realistic expectations.
 
I think it's still realistic to expect this team to dance, I expected it even after losing 2 of the better Iowa players in school history. I just have a lot of confidence in this staff putting a competitive team on the floor. Last night sucked, but it's not my first hoops season, I've seen games like that happen to better teams then this one. I would say I am actually more encouraged that they can dance after the last 4 games than I was before them. But that's just me. I am encouraged. Iowa has a young team and it appears a lot of them can play.
 
I think Fran is a dime a dozen coach. Sure we could do worse, but we could also do better. I do appreciate how Fran has embraced the Hawkeye culture, but he is replaceable. I think there is ceiling on on what he can do and we have already seen it.

I'm not advocating he be fired, but I do think the market will eventually get tired of his act as well without any top end success to show for it. How long that will be, I don't know. But we will know it when it starts looking like this every night at Carver:

1639170833299.png

Without at least an average defense and difference making point guards, we are best case cannon fodder for the 1 and 2 seed in the 2nd round.

Iowa would be foolish PR wise to drop him now, but if Fran walked away tomorrow for greener pastures I would thank him for the rebuild and getting the team back into contention for getting into the NCAAs. But, I would not lose sleep over it.
 
ssckelley said:
Wish Iowa had a Washington DC and Baltimore metropolitan area in which to recruit from like Maryland does. WE ARE FROM SMALL FRICKEN IOWA! Population 3 million and they share it with another P5 school. Times are different than they were 50-60 years ago. If Iowa could find another Raveling to pull recruits out of Michigan my guess is they couldn't afford him.

You remember all those glory days but did you forget what happened in the late 90s? Did you forget how quickly the basketball program turned to shit after Tom Davis left? That's reality! That could easily happen again.
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Wow I am hard pressed to accept that all of you are going to be OK if Iowa never again achieves more than mediocrity. Clearly we are not going to become Duke (although Duke became Duke) As much as I hate to point out we have another school in the state who has won Championships Made runs in the tournament and created a fan supported program with National recognition. They slumped recently, but after last night is at least looking like maybe they hired the coach to bring them back. Even all of you had to have recognize how much better defense they play with a freshmen point guard and 6 transfers!

I'm sure McCaffrey will be around for at least 2 more years. We will see what his tenure looks like then
 
longtimer said:
Wow I am hard pressed to accept that all of you are going to be OK if Iowa never again achieves more than mediocrity. Clearly we are not going to become Duke (although Duke became Duke) As much as I hate to point out we have another school in the state who has won Championships Made runs in the tournament and created a fan supported program with National recognition. They slumped recently, but after last night is at least looking like maybe they hired the coach to bring them back. Even all of you had to have recognize how much better defense they play with a freshmen point guard and 6 transfers!

I'm sure McCaffrey will be around for at least 2 more years. We will see what his tenure looks like then
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If mediocrity means being in the NCAA tournament most of the time, winning 20 games a year, and winning a big game once in awhile then, yeah, I can accept that. I want more too and I’m hopeful Fran can get us there. But I’ve seen ugly and I know how quickly it can turn ugly if we start chasing off coaches.

What championships has the Clowns won? If you think that’s the model Iowa should imitate then go be a Clown fan.
 
Fran has such a young team with a lot of promise and a pg and athletic guard coming in plus a power forward in the next couple of years. He is starting to get our talent level up which was the basis for most of my criticism of Fran in years past. We just played three top ten teams in one week! The youngsters can see what has to be done to be competitive. Now Fran has hard decisions to make about playing time and developing players. You simple can't have Kris not on the floor because the major problem with this team is rebounding right now. Defense and rebounding have to be the basis for playing time right now. We play some creampuffs for the next few games, Fran needs to set his rotation and see who wants to do the things this team needs to win games.
 
InGoodCo said:
I think it's still realistic to expect this team to dance, I expected it even after losing 2 of the better Iowa players in school history. I just have a lot of confidence in this staff putting a competitive team on the floor. Last night sucked, but it's not my first hoops season, I've seen games like that happen to better teams then this one. I would say I am actually more encouraged that they can dance after the last 4 games than I was before them. But that's just me. I am encouraged. Iowa has a young team and it appears a lot of them can play.
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Agree about last night, I saw right away that the way the game was being called and Keegan not being quite right it was going to be a long night. I'm very happy about the way they played Illinois and Purdue. Certain players made God awful decisions last night at key times in the game and our solid shooters couldn't hit the ocean from the beach. I expect some learning to be done the next couple of weeks. I just don't see our current starting lineup lasting much longer. They have almost no offensive flow, their defense is suspect, and they end up playing their way onto the bench. Who do we start going forward if your the coach?
 
From last year, we lost three starters including the NCAA National Player of the Year, an NBA drafted guard/forward. We lost the third starter to the transfer portal (under shady circumstances). We lost a top bench player and projected starter to the transfer portal. We kept the two starters that many on here have complained about for at least three years. Yeah, we've all heard it: Connor can't shoot and Jordan can't play D and shouldn't be in the Big 10 (even though he holds the 3 point record for the conference, STILL playing less minutes than Diebler).

We have some very good young players. They will struggle at times, as do ALL young players. I'm not going to get upset about a loss to Iowa St; their fans can thump their chests all they want to, it won't bother me - didn't bother me when I lived in Maxwell (15 miles from Ames).

All that being said, what were your expectations for this season? Yeah, we have talented players, but we have only three who have experience: Jordan, Connor and Keegan. The rest of the squad had only played token minutes. While they showed flashes during those minutes, they were untested. I expected somewhere between 15 and 19 wins.
 
longtimer said:
Clearly we are not going to become Duke (although Duke became Duke)
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Lol at the “Duke became Duke” rationalization.

Duke became Duke by sheer luck because Mike Krcyzewsczesyskczewski was a green horn that no one knew would start a dynasty. And for every Coach Kay there have been tens of thousands of total flops.

That’s like saying, “Johnny won the Powerball last week, there’s no reason I shouldn’t win it this week!” It’s completely ridiculous.
 
Fryowa said:
Lol at the “Duke became Duke” rationalization.

Duke became Duke by sheer luck because Mike Krcyzewsczesyskczewski was a green horn that no one knew would start a dynasty. And for every Coach Kay there have been tens of thousands of total flops.

That’s like saying, “Johnny won the Powerball last week, there’s no reason I shouldn’t win it this week!” It’s completely ridiculous.
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Rod Stewart - Some Guys Have All the Luck (Official Video)

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ssckelley said:
If mediocrity means being in the NCAA tournament most of the time, winning 20 games a year, and winning a big game once in awhile then, yeah, I can accept that. I want more too and I’m hopeful Fran can get us there. But I’ve seen ugly and I know how quickly it can turn ugly if we start chasing off coaches.

What championships has the Clowns won? If you think that’s the model Iowa should imitate then go be a Clown fan.
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They've won the Big12 conference tournament for several years going.
 
Fryowa said:
Lol at the “Duke became Duke” rationalization.

Duke became Duke by sheer luck because Mike Krcyzewsczesyskczewski was a green horn that no one knew would start a dynasty. And for every Coach Kay there have been tens of thousands of total flops.

That’s like saying, “Johnny won the Powerball last week, there’s no reason I shouldn’t win it this week!” It’s completely ridiculous.
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So we hire Ralph Miller and he has great success including 14-0 in Big Ten, We hire Lute Olsen and he takes us to the final 4, We hire Raveling and he recruits a great class that Mr. Davis takes to #1 in the nation and a nice run in the tournament. So did we win the Lottery 3 times? I find it hard to believe that you are willing to make a change after 12 years of mediocrity because you are afraid we may be worse? Might happen and then again?

I will never be an Iowa State fan but for those of you who think they haven't had some good years including championships and runs in the tournament check the last 12 years!
 
longtimer said:
So we hire Ralph Miller and he has great success including 14-0 in Big Ten, We hire Lute Olsen and he takes us to the final 4, We hire Raveling and he recruits a great class that Mr. Davis takes to #1 in the nation and a nice run in the tournament. So did we win the Lottery 3 times? I find it hard to believe that you are willing to make a change after 12 years of mediocrity because you are afraid we may be worse? Might happen and then again?

I will never be an Iowa State fan but for those of you who think they haven't had some good years including championships and runs in the tournament check the last 12 years!
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I’d be fine making a change if the current coach was garbage like Alford and Lickliter. The odds of being worse than Lickliter are almost impossible, and Alford was a scandalous piece of shit.

Fran McCaffery is a .590 coach whose players love him and he doesn’t cheat. You get rid of him, good fuckin’ luck.

And FYI, you apparently don’t watch or follow P6 college basketball. .590 is not anywhere mediocrity.
 
Since when is winning the conference tournament that big of a deal? I remember people here used to mock Alford because that's about the only thing he really accomplished here. Winning your conference tournament means you've qualified for the big dance and it's an extra trophy for the trophy case. It's as meaningful as the football team winning the division trophy, it's not nothing but in the grand scheme of things it's not all that.

My ONLY complaint with Fran is he hasn't gotten Iowa further in the NCAA tournament, that's it. He's winning enough to get Iowa there.

I think his recruiting has been very good, he got 2 top 100 recruits to come to Iowa when we sucked and has found some diamonds in the rough with the Murray twins and Garza. Those of you that expect Iowa to start landing top 100 recruits every year are not being rationale.
 
ssckelley said:
My ONLY complaint with Fran is he hasn't gotten Iowa further in the NCAA tournament, that's it. He's winning enough to get Iowa there.
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He hasn't done that cause of bad and slow adjustments, weak use of transfers, not getting or coaching up guards very well. Defense that has been bad much of the time and when it does better it also comes and goes. Too up an down and too little consistency in the play on both ends of the floor. Too many routs in big games. Overall under 500 in the big ten, under .500 in the conference tourney, under .500 in the NCAA tourney including 0-6 in the second round.

They play more games than they used to. 20 in conference and a tourney. Winning 20 games isn't that big anymore. W. ILL, Utah State, SE LA, Longwood, UMKC, AL State, NC Central, Portland State, W MI. 10 gimmes and then 21 conference games means you can go under .500 10-11 in the conference and hit 20. 20 wins is the least they should do.

I would have brought in Mike Anderson as coach a couple of years back. I know the Barta would not do better and probably worse thing but Fran, like with Turgeon, is really time to move on. Remember that definition of crazy - where expecting different results with the same thing each year. Same Fran will always underperform. I don't see Fran really learning or changing for the better. Just being under .500 and getting outcoached more often than not.

It would be so nice to have a Kevin Willard or some such real solid coach and see quick changes, better sub patterns, players come on quicker and real higher potential, and have more games be close and have a better taste in the mouth even with ones we lose.
 
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