The Barta Conundrum

[BlindDogScooter]

I love the fools who say Barta destroyed the basketball program. All he did was hire the guy who's fellow coaches voted him the best in the land the previous year. Yeah... it didn't work out but not a single one of you geniuses had any idea what the result would be on the day the hire was announced. Yeah... I know... you all think you knew but that's nothing more than your delusional ego telling your brain you're smarter than you are. The truth is Lick didn't exactly walk into an easy situation. It didn't work out and Barta made a stellar choice in Fran.

And if you think fundraising is automatic at Iowa that's just more evidence that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I love the fools who say Barta destroyed the basketball program. All he did was hire the guy who's fellow coaches voted him the best in the land the previous year. Yeah... it didn't work out but not a single one of you geniuses had any idea what the result would be on the day the hire was announced. Yeah... I know... you all think you knew but that's nothing more than your delusional ego telling your brain you're smarter than you are. The truth is Lick didn't exactly walk into an easy situation. It didn't work out and Barta made a stellar choice in Fran.

And if you think fundraising is automatic at Iowa that's just more evidence that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

Your point about the basketball program is fair. Lick looked like a good hire on the surface. But I'd suggest the AD's job is to look beyond the surface, (shortly after his hire we started getting intel from Butler folks on this very board). It's just "geniuses" like me, that don't see beyond the superficial. A good AD is much more savvy and smart enough to look deeper. Right?

As for the fundraising. Nobody said it's "automatic", you have to show up and do the work. But it's easier to keep a big train moving, than start it from a dead stop. Newton's law applies here too. Yes, Barta did a good job in that area...but he's no miracle worker. Lots of AD's would love to have the landscape he has to work with. I've spoken with enough people over the years smarter than you or I, many involved in intercollegiate athletics... that remark at the financial resources that have been available to IOWA considering it's demographics and size.

Insult me all you want, I find a robust discussion more interesting...but whatever makes you feel better.

 

[lightning1]

I love the fools who say Barta destroyed the basketball program. All he did was hire the guy who's fellow coaches voted him the best in the land the previous year. Yeah... it didn't work out but not a single one of you geniuses had any idea what the result would be on the day the hire was announced. Yeah... I know... you all think you knew but that's nothing more than your delusional ego telling your brain you're smarter than you are. The truth is Lick didn't exactly walk into an easy situation. It didn't work out and Barta made a stellar choice in Fran.

And if you think fundraising is automatic at Iowa that's just more evidence that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

He thought he did. But he didn't. Anyone that knew what was going on at Butler said that Brad Stevens was the engine in that ride. A lot of Indiana fans were saying as much but nobody wanted to listen. Barta failed to do his due diligence in assessing the staff that Lickliter had at Butler and the staff he was bringing with him to Iowa. He then compounded that by ignoring all of the problems that were happening during Licks first 2 seasons. It took Matt Gatens and his father to wake that idiot up.
The tailgating, the lack of accountability in the FB program, the bullying of female coaches, the bold faced lies he's told to season ticket holders (yes, he lied to ME!) and the rapid decline in season ticket sales, etc, etc.
He didn't hire Bludder
He didn't hire Brands
He is DEAD LAST in the BIG Directors Cup standings.

Barta is the Titanic of Athletic Director failures.

 

[Hawknick]

If you notice it though, Jones was only 1 of 4 other comparisons that I made. To get fair comparisons outside of Fry, one must go back far in program history however I will try a few more. The 6th to 10th best coaches in history are a drop off, but I will try to give it a go.

#6 A.E. Bull no coach before Knipe coached more than 1 year. Bull was no exception despite winning the first ever confernace championship in 96.

#7 John Chalmers, had the highest winning percentage of any coach to coach more than 1 year. Left the program after 3 years to practice law in Dubuque.

#8 Eddie Anderson, at the end of his second stint he wanted the University to give him tenure. They refused, and he resigned to become head coach at Holy Cross.

#9 Jesse Hawley, If you like high scoring offense his teams were the ones to watch! He only served part time, after a 3-4 season in 1915 the University wanted him to start coaching full time. He did not like that idea and resigned after that season.

#10 Bob Cummings or Burt Ingwersen. Cummings was removed as coach following a 2 win season. Ingwersen resigned under pressure following a 1 win season. That was after the Big 10 suspension.

Kirk is clearly a much better coach that either of them were so it is hard to get a comparison there. It is hard to draw comparisons from some of the other coaches too who had very short times at Iowa, and coached a long time ago. Eddie Anderson's term was interrupted by war so that has an affect there. I do however find the Hawley situation somewhat interesting. I still put Ferentz ahead of all the coaches on this list.

 

[BlindDogScooter]

Your point about the basketball program is fair. Lick looked like a good hire on the surface. But I'd suggest the AD's job is to look beyond the surface, (shortly after his hire we started getting intel from Butler folks on this very board). It's just "geniuses" like me, that don't see beyond the superficial. A good AD is much more savvy and smart enough to look deeper. Right?

See... it's responses like this that draw my disdain. Your entire response is based 100% on speculation and assumption. You assume Barta looked no deeper than the COY vote. You assume he didn't have conversations with many people including those Lick coached with and against. You assume that a bunch of anonymous Butler "fans" have actual "Intel" that wasn't available to Barta and whoever comprised the search committee. That's laughable.

The truth is you have absolutely no idea what Barta did or didn't do in the course of hiring Lick. But why let that stop you from speculating and pontificating as if you have actual knowledge of the facts and circumstances?

I, too, enjoy a substantive argument. You haven't presented one. Nor have any of the "Barta destroyed the basketball program" bandwagon jumpers...

 

[hawkeye4life68]

See... it's responses like this that draw my disdain. Your entire response is based 100% on speculation and assumption. You assume Barta looked no deeper than the COY vote. You assume he didn't have conversations with many people including those Lick coached with and against. You assume that a bunch of anonymous Butler "fans" have actual "Intel" that wasn't available to Barta and whoever comprised the search committee. That's laughable.

The truth is you have absolutely no idea what Barta did or didn't do in the course of hiring Lick. But why let that stop you from speculating and pontificating as if you have actual knowledge of the facts and circumstances?

I, too, enjoy a substantive argument. You haven't presented one. Nor have any of the "Barta destroyed the basketball program" bandwagon jumpers...

Todd Lickliter: 38–57 overall 15–39 in conference.

Gary Barta destroyed the basketball program. Enjoy your "substantive arguments" all you want. They don't change facts.

 

[HuckFinn]

Some comments from Barta at the AD's meeting this week, in regard to season ticket sales: He is very concerned and stated that he is telling people who chose not to renew that he will do everything possible to get them back. Yes, that is what he should do, but i am glad to see him state it in the media. He reiterated that last season's record was unacceptable to him, to the coaching staff and to Iowa football fans. He also said that KF will be evaluated at the end of the season and that he will be accountable for his performance.

Some fact from the same Gazette article: There are 46 suites at Kinnick; there is 1 open and Barta is confident it will be sold soon. There is a waiting list of 1150 for outdoor club seating and a waiting list of 110 for indoor seating.

It would be my guess that the above areas are where most of the biggest donors populate Kinnick.

Just to be clear: I am not writing this post to defend KF or GB...I just found it interesting. You can certainly reach your own conclusions. And, yes, the fact remains that season ticket sales are down considerably for 2015, I think from 37,000 to 30,000. Not good.

 

[lightning1]

Some comments from Barta at the AD's meeting this week, in regard to season ticket sales: He is very concerned and stated that he is telling people who chose not to renew that he will do everything possible to get them back. Yes, that is what he should do, but i am glad to see him state it in the media. He reiterated that last season's record was unacceptable to him, to the coaching staff and to Iowa football fans. He also said that KF will be evaluated at the end of the season and that he will be accountable for his performance.

Some fact from the same Gazette article: There are 46 suites at Kinnick; there is 1 open and Barta is confident it will be sold soon. There is a waiting list of 1150 for outdoor club seating and a waiting list of 110 for indoor seating.

It would be my guess that the above areas are where most of the biggest donors populate Kinnick.

Just to be clear: I am not writing this post to defend KF or GB...I just found it interesting. You can certainly reach your own conclusions. And, yes, the fact remains that season ticket sales are down considerably for 2015, I think from 37,000 to 30,000. Not good.

I'm not surprised by that at all. The big donors that pay for those suites get all kinds of love from Gary Barta and KF. They get personal BBQs, back rubs and happy endings. Maybe GB can raise the prices on those suites to offset the 20K little people that have had it. Good luck with that. You took a big smelly dump on the average fan's tailgating while you allowed booze in the suites to big donors. That lying scum bag can sit on it and spin.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Has anyone brought up the plausible idea that Barta is/has been looking for a soft landing place somewhere else? If I were him and reading the tea leaves I sure would be. I think this year he have one eye looking for a new gig and it wouldn't surprise me if he jumps ship.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

See... it's responses like this that draw my disdain. Your entire response is based 100% on speculation and assumption. You assume Barta looked no deeper than the COY vote. You assume he didn't have conversations with many people including those Lick coached with and against. You assume that a bunch of anonymous Butler "fans" have actual "Intel" that wasn't available to Barta and whoever comprised the search committee. That's laughable.

The truth is you have absolutely no idea what Barta did or didn't do in the course of hiring Lick. But why let that stop you from speculating and pontificating as if you have actual knowledge of the facts and circumstances?

I, too, enjoy a substantive argument. You haven't presented one. Nor have any of the "Barta destroyed the basketball program" bandwagon jumpers...

No, he cannot prove what conversations Barta did or didn't have, but we do know this.

There was no shortage of people who knew Butler basketball that quickly said Stevens was behind their success, not Lick. And they spoke up. (minimize them if you wish, but the talk was out there)

So either Barta a). didn't dig deep enough to find that out, or b) he did do his due diligence and ignored what he found, or thought he was smarter than all those that gave him that intel (you know, like the people that likely told him not to sign a football coach to a one-sided, no escape contract. if your assertion is that he may have never gotten such advice, then the problem runs even deeper)

Either way one could make a case he's culpable. Either poor due diligence...or bad judgement Take your choice. (It's also possible that his hand was forced by Sally or power alums, I'll give you that)

if you don't care for speculation... forums may not be the place for you.

 

[BlindDogScooter]

No, he cannot prove what conversations Barta did or didn't have, but we do know this.

There was no shortage of people who knew Butler basketball that quickly said Stevens was behind their success, not Lick. And they spoke up. (minimize them if you wish, but the talk was out there)

So either Barta a). didn't dig deep enough to find that out, or b) he did do his due diligence and ignored what he found, or thought he was smarter than all those that gave him that intel (you know, like the people that likely told him not to sign a football coach to a one-sided, no escape contract. if your assertion is that he may have never gotten such advice, then the problem runs even deeper)

Either way one could make a case he's culpable. Either poor due diligence...or bad judgement Take your choice. (It's also possible that his hand was forced by Sally or power alums, I'll give you that)

if you don't care for speculation... forums may not be the place for you.

I don't mind speculation. I just feel the need to keep it real when speculators offer their theories as fact... as you just did, once again.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I don't mind speculation. I just feel the need to keep it real when speculators offer their theories as fact... as you just did, once again.

Fair enough, I appreciate your reasonable response. Help me understand your perspective. Where's the speculation in my previous post?

Either Barta heard the back story about Stevens being the real brains behind Butler success...or he didn't. If he did, he took it into consideration and made a bad call on Lick. If he didn't, his did a poor job of vetting a very important hire. He's culpable either way.

It's not a matter of speculation that many said Stevens was the brains of the operation. It was all over the forums, surely a big time AD would come across such info in the vetting process.

It's also possible that others had a significant hand in the selection (University admin, power alums, who ever) and it may not have been Barta's call. In which case, he would be taking an unfair share of the blame.

BUT...getting back the original point. This is just one piece of the Barta story. The state of the football program alone...should be enough to dump him. Empty seats like we're going to see this fall, and an empty parking lot West of the home stands which we saw last fall.. haven't happened since...well, as long as I've been going to games. (which is a long time). He's significantly weakened the flagship product, the gameday experience and the brand in just a few short years. In most professions... guys get shown the door for that.

 

[trj]

Fair enough, I appreciate your reasonable response. Help me understand your perspective. Where's the speculation in my previous post?

Either Barta heard the back story about Stevens being the real brains behind Butler success...or he didn't. If he did, he took it into consideration and made a bad call on Lick. If he didn't, his did a poor job of vetting a very important hire. He's culpable either way.

It's not a matter of speculation that many said Stevens was the brains of the operation. It was all over the forums, surely a big time AD would come across such info in the vetting process.

It's also possible that others had a significant hand in the selection (University admin, power alums, who ever) and it may not have been Barta's call. In which case, he would be taking an unfair share of the blame.

BUT...getting back the original point. This is just one piece of the Barta story. The state of the football program alone...should be enough to dump him. Empty seats like we're going to see this fall, and an empty parking lot West of the home stands which we saw last fall.. haven't happened since...well, as long as I've been going to games. (which is a long time). He's significantly weakened the flagship product, the gameday experience and the brand in just a few short years. In most professions... guys get shown the door for that.

Or maybe Barta was thinking he was getting Thad Matta instead of Bary Collier.

 

[trj]

I love the fools who say Barta destroyed the basketball program. All he did was hire the guy who's fellow coaches voted him the best in the land the previous year. Yeah... it didn't work out but not a single one of you geniuses had any idea what the result would be on the day the hire was announced. Yeah... I know... you all think you knew but that's nothing more than your delusional ego telling your brain you're smarter than you are. The truth is Lick didn't exactly walk into an easy situation. It didn't work out and Barta made a stellar choice in Fran.

And if you think fundraising is automatic at Iowa that's just more evidence that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about.

Yeah, I was one of the suckers that bought into "the Butler way". I was one the last to jump off of the TL ship. I somehow still thought it could work when it was obvious that it wasn't.

 

[BlindDogScooter]

Fair enough, I appreciate your reasonable response. Help me understand your perspective. Where's the speculation in my previous post?

Either Barta heard the back story about Stevens being the real brains behind Butler success...or he didn't. If he did, he took it into consideration and made a bad call on Lick. If he didn't, his did a poor job of vetting a very important hire. He's culpable either way.

It's not a matter of speculation that many said Stevens was the brains of the operation. It was all over the forums, surely a big time AD would come across such info in the vetting process.

OK... let's start with the fact that the whole theory is based on speculation. Because a bunch of anonymous fans on internet message forums say that Stevens was the real brains behind the Butler success doesn't make it true. I sincerely hope the incredibly smart and successful people who make these multimillion dollar decisions aren't doing their due diligence on internet forums.

If you were on the committee whose opinion would matter to you? Someone calling themselves tikibrain351 on an internet forum or the respected college coaches and Athletic Directors who could offer opinions based on personal experience with your prospective hire? I'm gonna go with the coaches and ADs for the win... understanding that it's not what you'd call an exact science.

It's also possible that others had a significant hand in the selection (University admin, power alums, who ever) and it may not have been Barta's call. In which case, he would be taking an unfair share of the blame.

I'm certain Barta sought advice and counsel from all those people but ultimately it's his call. If not... he should resign.

BUT...getting back the original point. This is just one piece of the Barta story. The state of the football program alone...should be enough to dump him. Empty seats like we're going to see this fall, and an empty parking lot West of the home stands which we saw last fall.. haven't happened since...well, as long as I've been going to games. (which is a long time). He's significantly weakened the flagship product, the gameday experience and the brand in just a few short years. In most professions... guys get shown the door for that.

Again... your opinion. As I said in my original response in this thread Barta runs one of the most successful college athletic programs in the nation. That includes more than football. It also includes more than money. Yes, the football program should be the focus of his attention in the short term and I'm quite certain it is. Despite the often insane ramblings of internet forum posters (myself included at times) Barta is not a stupid man. Stupid men don't get these jobs. I have every confidence that he will make whatever decisions are appropriate at the appropriate time.

 

[lightning1]

OK... let's start with the fact that the whole theory is based on speculation. Because a bunch of anonymous fans on internet message forums say that Stevens was the real brains behind the Butler success doesn't make it true. I sincerely hope the incredibly smart and successful people who make these multimillion dollar decisions aren't doing their due diligence on internet forums.

If you were on the committee whose opinion would matter to you? Someone calling themselves tikibrain351 on an internet forum or the respected college coaches and Athletic Directors who could offer opinions based on personal experience with your prospective hire? I'm gonna go with the coaches and ADs for the win... understanding that it's not what you'd call an exact science.



I'm certain Barta sought advice and counsel from all those people but ultimately it's his call. If not... he should resign.



Again... your opinion. As I said in my original response in this thread Barta runs one of the most successful college athletic programs in the nation. That includes more than football. It also includes more than money. Yes, the football program should be the focus of his attention in the short term and I'm quite certain it is. Despite the often insane ramblings of internet forum posters (myself included at times) Barta is not a stupid man. Stupid men don't get these jobs. I have every confidence that he will make whatever decisions are appropriate at the appropriate time.

It's not really "opinion" when everything they said turned out to be correct. Now is it?

 

[NCHawker]

Iowa's new coach in waiting. Story

 

[BlindDogScooter]

It's not really "opinion" when everything they said turned out to be correct. Now is it?

I'm sure you've heard the old saying that hindsight is 20/20.

Anyone can be a genius in retrospect. These guys have to make multimillion dollar decisions in real time. All you can do is investigate until you gather enough information to make a decision that seems like it has a better than 50/50 shot at working out. You then have to pull the trigger and be accountable for the results. God never made the man who knew how to make the right decision every time but he did make leaders of men who knew how to make decisions and see them through.

The rest is just noise from the sidelines...

 

[lightning1]

I'm sure you've heard the old saying that hindsight is 20/20.

Anyone can be a genius in retrospect. These guys have to make multimillion dollar decisions in real time. All you can do is investigate until you gather enough information to make a decision that seems like it has a better than 50/50 shot at working out. You then have to pull the trigger and be accountable for the results. God never made the man who knew how to make the right decision every time but he did make leaders of men who knew how to make decisions and see them through.

The rest is just noise from the sidelines...

Hindsight?
He told you that Butler fans came here and said that Stephens was the real reason for Lickliter's success and they did it the same time Lick was hired. That may have seemed like "opinion" at the time but at this point, we have to consider that they knew more than Barta did. Which supports the conclusion that Barta made a bad hire due to incompetence or stupidity. If a Butler fan on a message board knew it, there had to be 10,000 people in the state of Indiana that knew it too. Not to mention any number of basketball scouts/coaches/experts that Barta should have been able to consult.
I think it was plain old fashioned incompetence. He hired a guy that had just been named COY because it was the easy way out. It was an easy sell to the fan base and it didn't require much thought or work on Barta's end. The guy's a sorry excuse for an AD.

 

[BlindDogScooter]

Hindsight?
He told you that Butler fans came here and said that Stephens was the real reason for Lickliter's success and they did it the same time Lick was hired. That may have seemed like "opinion" at the time but at this point, we have to consider that they knew more than Barta did. Which supports the conclusion that Barta made a bad hire due to incompetence or stupidity. If a Butler fan on a message board knew it, there had to be 10,000 people in the state of Indiana that knew it too. Not to mention any number of basketball scouts/coaches/experts that Barta should have been able to consult.
I think it was plain old fashioned incompetence. He hired a guy that had just been named COY because it was the easy way out. It was an easy sell to the fan base and it didn't require much thought or work on Barta's end. The guy's a sorry excuse for an AD.

Clearly, you haven't got the first clue about the difference between speculation, opinion and fact. It's hard to imagine that anyone would actually say, with a straight face, that the opinions of anonymous forum posters carries any weight at all. Your speculation that Barta simply took the easy path assumes that he was the only one involved in the search and subsequent decision to hire... and that whoever else was involved just went along with it.

That's pretty ridiculous.

You qualify as noise from the sidelines.