Tanner Miller to the Packers

PS....I know how much fans love to compartmentalize things to justify their "vision", so I'll toss this out before anyone else does.

MW, nor likely LD or even Bullock are cut back runners. I saw in that Wiscy game the cutback was wide open and MW couldn't get there. He can run outside regardless of what the ill informed may think but he is NOT a cut back runner and never will be. The coaches, as dumb as they are, still realized in the 2nd half that it was open and promptly in went Canzeri.....to which he ran for 43 yards on one play..

By the by, do you know how many total yards he had.....5 for 58. So on his next 4 runs he gained 14 yards....hmmmmm

vs.... LSU...he had one carry for 13 yards and 6 for 21.....

vs...Michigan he had 12 for 50 and a long of 12, MW you ask, 17 for 88 and a long of 22...

Nebbie...6 for 59 one of which was 37 yards....

The point of all this isn't to say one is better than the other but rather to beg people to "see" reality and not their own agendas. JC has some great explosive plays and a lot of 1yd or 2yd or negative runs, even more than MW as Morehouse's stats showed. People don't see things for what they are but rather for what they "think" they were.....

C
 
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cmhawks99 said:
Nice to see someone with an open mind.....its funny, even the smartest fan doesn't see what the dumbest coach typically does. There is always more going on 2, 4, 8 plays ahead than we see. Kudos to you, I get tired of the complaining...so I like people who try and see the "why" not just the result.

C
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Stop making so much sense. It will get you nowhere here.
 
Lol... Well we all have our moments good and bad me included. But my experience has been these message boards are a lightning rod for tunnel vision.

C
 
great thoughts, cmhawks99. I've been meaning to teach myself how to create a highlight video just so I can create one of Weisman having success on the outside zone and posting on youtube. He has had a lot of success running it, but most fans are too stupid to realize or admit.
 
ICHawk24 said:
great thoughts, cmhawks99. I've been meaning to teach myself how to create a highlight video just so I can create one of Weisman having success on the outside zone and posting on youtube. He has had a lot of success running it, but most fans are too stupid to realize or admit.
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It it is mind boggling for sure. It's nice to talk with folks who watched the same games I did. Sometimes I feel like I'm in an alter-dimension...lol. This isn't to say it didn't work at times but that was good defense or poor blocking or both. Canzeri got ate up outside many times himself. In fact until Jordan learned to pick up his feet and run thru first contact I didn't think he was a viable option. Fortunately he improved and the Coach's put him out there. There is so much more going on than any of us, you and me included care to admit. I don't get why people get so pi$&$y about things like this and completely alter reality as a result.


C
 
cmhawks99 said:
I guess I get confused with what people “seeâ€￾ and how limited their scope is...The likely hood of Tanner making a roster isn’t all that good but several Iowa players have had NFL stints as a result of free agency. More importantly there have been a ton of terrific UDFAs go on to stellar careers..

This is just the last 2 years....and these are by no means a full comprehensive list, just those I knew or who had notable games or seasons or started a lot of games...

2012...Bobby Rainey, Vontaze Burfict, Desman Moses, Case Keenum, Mike Brewster, Brandon Bolden, Jermaine Kearse, Leonard Johnson who ran a 4.71 as a corner back.

2013..Marlon Brown, Melvin White, Joseph Fauria, Kenbrell Thompkins, Khriry Robinson, Matt McGloin

There are a lot of assumptions about the NFL, forty times, play calling, etc, that really aren't true. Case in point, while Miller may not be "blazing fast" his 4.54 forty would place him in the top half and maybe the top 25% of safteys in the NFL. Our fans often lampooned him as being slow but he's anything but. As far as that goes its not the first time they've said that about one of our own..The "speed" thing though isn't what makes a great football player or keeps them from making mistakes or puts them in the NFL...they have to actually know what they are doing.

Here is another example of fan"stuff"....last year the twittersphere and blogosphere and radio shows and "Interwebs" was all abuzz about those dumb coaches running Mark W outside on the zone stretch....In fact Eddie and Dolph were chief among them and some other famous Iowa Hawkeye types......here is why that doesn't make much sense to me...

First and foremost from a "pure" scheme or game planning stand point, you cant put in Back A and always run him inside or Back B and always run him outside...Now I know there are a lot on fellas on here that feel like they have great football minds so I'd think they'd get this..I'm not a great football mind and I do. Now from an "actuality" standpoint, as in here is what really happened...I have multiple games DVR'd and Weismann made lots of "Hay" on the outside stretch over and over...The Nebbie game, including the run to the goal line and the run out racing the D to the edge for a TD after than Canzeri run were both outside runs. Id be glad to send you copies if you don't have them...Also Marc Morehouse did a nice break down on the gazette after the season and his finding showed a lot of success for MW outside to the left...In fact if memory serves that was were "most" of his success came...


I don't have a link but if you search his blog a few months back you'll find them. Double check me because I don't want to mislead you but MW will, can, did and will again run lots of zone stretch with huge success despite what our fans think.


The point being we get frustrated and make snap judgments that seem true or may even have some true elements but they aren't accurate when you cross examine them. That's why I related the MW story and the NFL thoughts....


C
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While I agree that Miller isn't slow, he's the opposite of the typical guy that scouts talk about playing faster than his times. Some guys don't run great times but play fast because of instincts. Miller is physically above average in terms of speed, but he plays much slower because he gets himself into bad positions too often.
 
LGEND24 said:
Here's another at 1:44 & 2:41

[video=youtube;K-GUnmAg-1Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-GUnmAg-1Y[/video]
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Yeah it really is bizarre.... Some of it I attribute to Eddie Podalak. Some of these guys take anything he says for gospel and I don't really know why. I get that he is a great hawkeye and calls a good game but he's no football coach. Furthermore I won't be the least bit surprised next year during Iowas pro day if Wiesman doesn't end up running a really good 10 yard dash. It really is shocking what seemingly intelligent football fans latch onto at times?!
 
So, the conclusion is that the very best that Iowa could have ever done vs MSU, LSU and Wis. is the less than 1.3 yards/carry that MW averaged in those games? That if we had tried any other backs, or any other plays, that we would have collapsed to less than one yard per carry?

Nobody is saying that MW should not get carries, but to simply dismiss what the stats scream out, and say that Podolak is clueless about running the football because he and Dolph and Jon Miller and others say we can do better than 1 yard/ carry in big games is nonsense.

Spread it around....use more imagination in the attack, and when it not working, try something else...
 
JHHawk said:
So, the conclusion is that the very best that Iowa could have ever done vs MSU, LSU and Wis. is the less than 1.3 yards/carry that MW averaged in those games? That if we had tried any other backs, or any other plays, that we would have collapsed to less than one yard per carry?

Nobody is saying that MW should not get carries, but to simply dismiss what the stats scream out, and say that Podolak is clueless about running the football because he and Dolph and Jon Miller and others say we can do better than 1 yard/ carry in big games is nonsense.

Spread it around....use more imagination in the attack, and when it not working, try something else...
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And here we are with another drastic oversimplification. I have to tell you the truth I honestly don't care what Eddie, Dolph or even John Miller have to say about how the game is getting coached. Theyre fans just like you and me. They think they see something, somebody else thinks they see something else. Here this will help you. Substitute Iowa for LSU, Michigan State, Wisconsin. Then substitute Iowa for pretty much any other team that our defense shut down, in fact let's go with Michigan. So now you're a Michigan fan ask yourself how in the world did we gain 158 yards against Iowa and then score 41 points against Ohio State. It baffles me how fans process things it's a football game. It ebbs and flows and you do what you can in the heat of the moment. But more than that I honestly don't think people really know what actually happened, case in point....

vs MSU MW ran the ball 9 times.... That's right nine times total! People act like Iowa pounded it into the line with him 20 straight times for 1 yard per carry. In fact I guarantee most of the people that hold this opinion think that.

vs Wiscy which in my opinion is the game we most got it handed to us, MW carried it nine times, Daniels carried four times, Bullock carried it six times and JC the resident superstar, carried five for 58. Which seems impressive until you cross examine it. The coaches, those same dumb ones you're talking about identified a need for a cutback runner. Which JC promptly ran for 43 yards on a cutback on one carry. So that leaves 4 carries for 15 yards not all that impressive.

But more importantly they tried four different running backs so it appears to me they were doing what they could.

My number one gripe with all fans but especially ours, is they omit very important data every time they start their rants. Quite frankly the Jordan I watched at the start of the year stumbled and fell down a lot. He shuffled his feet and went down on first contact hell he wouldn't of been able to run the zone stretch. Because the initial level that you have to run through is normally pretty congested. He also had bad moments on the zone stretch but nobody ever remembers that. I apologize but I just don't get it. I personally watched this staff try lots of different things this year but all anyone can talk about is in MW on the zone stretch. Of which he had great success running.

It's truly baffling!
 
Chad, i always tell myself that i'm not going to post any more x's and o's stuff on this board because of people you just described, but i always come back and I always get shouted down by those same people. I know of another guy, also a long-time football coach, that says and does the same thing. Thanks for bring sanity and some legitimate to the board, even if others fail to see it.

Here's a link to a thread where the x's and o's of the zone play are given, along with some stats (instead of repeating them here) that state how Iowa uses MW, etc.

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62024
 
99topdawg said:
Chad, i always tell myself that i'm not going to post any more x's and o's stuff on this board because of people you just described, but i always come back and I always get shouted down by those same people. I know of another guy, also a long-time football coach, that says and does the same thing. Thanks for bring sanity and some legitimate to the board, even if others fail to see it.

Here's a link to a thread where the x's and o's of the zone play are given, along with some stats (instead of repeating them here) that state how Iowa uses MW, etc.

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62024
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Thanks for bringing that thread back. I had forgotten how much good X's and O's there was in that.
 
cmhawks99 said:
And here we are with another drastic oversimplification. I have to tell you the truth I honestly don't care what Eddie, Dolph or even John Miller have to say about how the game is getting coached. Theyre fans just like you and me. They think they see something, somebody else thinks they see something else. Here this will help you. Substitute Iowa for LSU, Michigan State, Wisconsin. Then substitute Iowa for pretty much any other team that our defense shut down, in fact let's go with Michigan. So now you're a Michigan fan ask yourself how in the world did we gain 158 yards against Iowa and then score 41 points against Ohio State. It baffles me how fans process things it's a football game. It ebbs and flows and you do what you can in the heat of the moment. But more than that I honestly don't think people really know what actually happened, case in point....

vs MSU MW ran the ball 9 times.... That's right nine times total! People act like Iowa pounded it into the line with him 20 straight times for 1 yard per carry. In fact I guarantee most of the people that hold this opinion think that.

vs Wiscy which in my opinion is the game we most got it handed to us, MW carried it nine times, Daniels carried four times, Bullock carried it six times and JC the resident superstar, carried five for 58. Which seems impressive until you cross examine it. The coaches, those same dumb ones you're talking about identified a need for a cutback runner. Which JC promptly ran for 43 yards on a cutback on one carry. So that leaves 4 carries for 15 yards not all that impressive.

But more importantly they tried four different running backs so it appears to me they were doing what they could.

My number one gripe with all fans but especially ours, is they omit very important data every time they start their rants. Quite frankly the Jordan I watched at the start of the year stumbled and fell down a lot. He shuffled his feet and went down on first contact hell he wouldn't of been able to run the zone stretch. Because the initial level that you have to run through is normally pretty congested. He also had bad moments on the zone stretch but nobody ever remembers that. I apologize but I just don't get it. I personally watched this staff try lots of different things this year but all anyone can talk about is in MW on the zone stretch. Of which he had great success running.

It's truly baffling!
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Chad pwning. Niiiicccce!!
 
99topdawg said:
Chad, i always tell myself that i'm not going to post any more x's and o's stuff on this board because of people you just described, but i always come back and I always get shouted down by those same people. I know of another guy, also a long-time football coach, that says and does the same thing. Thanks for bring sanity and some legitimate to the board, even if others fail to see it.

Here's a link to a thread where the x's and o's of the zone play are given, along with some stats (instead of repeating them here) that state how Iowa uses MW, etc.

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62024
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Thanks 99,

I greatly enjoyed the break down you guys all shared in that thread. I'm not much of an X's and O's guy so to have it broke down in that fashion helps me put some schematics to what I see happening. Conversely its also why I am so baffled by what some of these guys say or should I say "see"....I'm a defensive guy by nature for all sports but even there I'm not a "big" scheme guy or X/O guy. What do you "see" happening and how do you stop it? On the zone stretch they are pretty obviously running to an area and hoping to "stretch", "block" a hole open. Sometimes that hole is quite small and you have to blast through it. Mark is very good at that. Early in the season JC was not. But if what I read you guys saying is...the inside zone (where someone would assume, "faultily" I might add) that its designed for a bigger back but in actuality it is a prime place for a good cut back runner, which I think we can all agree is not MW. That's not to say he can't run inside but he is not going to "see" it or even get the cut back.

Because MW I propose is actually a goodly deal quicker thru the hole than he gets credit for and I believe his 10 yard time will eventually bare that out. But his lateral quickness or vision I/e: cut back ability is not there. So what these guys are arguing for is actually counter intuitive to what is really "wise".....

And I cant tell you how many times in my life I see that very thing happen. People argue opposite of what actually makes sense. It didn't occur to me that's what was happening until you guys laid it out..

Thanks
 
cmhawks99 said:
PS....I know how much fans love to compartmentalize things to justify their "vision", so I'll toss this out before anyone else does.

MW, nor likely LD or even Bullock are cut back runners. I saw in that Wiscy game the cutback was wide open and MW couldn't get there. He can run outside regardless of what the ill informed may think but he is NOT a cut back runner and never will be.
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If one is not a cutback runner, and he has Weisman's speed, or lack there of, and lack of elite lateral twitch, why in the world would you call run plays outside for him with the regularity that Davis does? It's a square peg in a round hole. Sure, he 'can' run outside, but he gets his yards only if the OL is pancaking and caving on that side, or if he lays a shoulder and gets to the second level after contact. We remember the highlights, but FAR more often than not, we are talking 0-3 yards on those and no shot at a home run on the cutback. Iowa needs more home run opportunities.

I think there are roles for MW and JC on the team, and possibly others. Different roles. But don't be rolling Weisman out very much on outside zones..please.
 
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