Take StL, KC, Reinforce East Flank, Wait on ND

troy

troy

Well-Known Member
Omaha has been annexed. The Big Ten waltzed in there like heroes to rescue the Huskers from the evil Texas Empire. Kansas City is staggering right now. They rely on the Mizzou, KU, K-State dynamic. They were a Big 12 destination town. But you can take KC by just taking Mizzou and KU, and Kansas City is primed to be a Big Ten town if you add those two teams. St. Louis has always been a Cardinals town, and it seems their college football affiliations are divided between Illinois and Mizzou. But Illinois and Mizzou play every year at the "Dome," and St. Louis is a Final Four and potential Big Ten football championship town. Pitt has an outstanding football tradition and is a natural rival to Penn State. Pitt has an NCAA football title on its resume. And Pittsburgh and Cleveland cannot stand each other. Very healthy for a rivalry. Pittsburgh and Notre Dame are also long standing football and basketball rivals. If you take Pittsburgh, you reinforce the Big Ten's Eastern Flank and collapse the Big East. Then, Notre Dame will eventually probably join. They will be welcomed with open arms and swaddled in "Big Ten Love." Leave a spot open for ND forever if you have to. The Big Ten is a Midwestern-Mideastern league. If you take St. Louis and Kansas City now, you have a chance to create a powerful athletics empire that spans the Upper Midwest from Philadelphia to Kansas City, including every major city in between. The Big Ten doesn't have to wait on the Big 12. If they move now, they will create a Mega-Conference. St. Louis and Kansas City are waiting...
 
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UVA, UNC, Duke, & Notre Dame. It would be the perfect conference. Stronger in every sport than the current Big Ten is and it would be an academic super conference (the top half of the Big Ten would damn near rival the Ivy league in terms of academic prestige).
 
Raziel said:
UVA, UNC, Duke, & Notre Dame. It would be the perfect conference. Stronger in every sport than the current Big Ten is and it would be an academic super conference (the top half of the Big Ten would damn near rival the Ivy league in terms of academic prestige).
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This would be a recipe for a Big XII-style implosion 15 years down the road. The Big Ten is not going to carve up the goose that lays the golden eggs for an athletic non-entity, two basketball schools, and a university with a superiority complex even bigger than Texas.

Like Swirlin joked, if we're going to expand to every corner of the US, why don't we develop a paramilitary wing and build a superhighway system while we're at it? This is an athletic conference. It is not a quest for world domination. I think a lot of people have lost sight of that. Fortunately, for all of the smoke and mirrors, I don't think that Jim Delaney or the B10 university presidents are among that group.
 
Baltimore? Quit thinking so small.

Montreal has been ripe for expansion since the Expos left town. And what the hell are they doing with all those Olympic stadiums they built in the last decade in Athens and Beijing?
 
Sorry, no Mizzou...too southern.
Just keep our powder dry, then add ND and Md or Rutgers next spring...and call it a day.
 
olivecourt said:
This would be a recipe for a Big XII-style implosion 15 years down the road. The Big Ten is not going to carve up the goose that lays the golden eggs for an athletic non-entity, two basketball schools, and a university with a superiority complex even bigger than Texas.

Like Swirlin joked, if we're going to expand to every corner of the US, why don't we develop a paramilitary wing and build a superhighway system while we're at it? This is an athletic conference. It is not a quest for world domination. I think a lot of people have lost sight of that. Fortunately, for all of the smoke and mirrors, I don't think that Jim Delaney or the B10 university presidents are among that group.
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LOL! Athletic non entity? Virginia just placed top 5 in the directors cup standings and is one of the top 30 wealthiest athletic departments in the country. They also happen to be located in a state with a population of around 8 million - a great thing for the BTN. Further, geographically, they are only separated from the Big Ten by state of Maryland (which is an exceptionally small state). It's not like Virginia would be on an island like a Texas would be.

A couple of basketball schools? LOL! Duke and UNC aren't just "a couple of basketball schools". They are two of the most prestigious basketball schools in the history of the sport. Further, they are in one of the fastest growing states in the country which features a population of around 9 million people. You do realize that the BTN generates money due to TV subscribers, right? I'll guaran-damn-tee you that Duke/UNC would generate more TV subscribers/advertising revenue for the BTN than Syracuse/Rutgers/Mizzou. Hell, I'll guarantee you that Duke/UNC would do a better job delivering the NYC market than Syracuse and Rutgers combined. There are more Duke/UNC fans in NYC than there are Rutgers/Syracuse fans. Adding Duke/UNC would be a HUGE national draw for the BTN.

Perhaps the most shortsighted comment in your entire post: "This is an athletic conference. It is not a quest for world domination." First and foremost, the Big Ten is an academic conference, it is an athletic conference second. Never forget that. The addition of Duke/UNC/Virginia would generated HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars for Big Ten schools in collaborative research funding. That revenue makes athletic revenue look like pennies. Those three schools are three of the most prestigious schools in the country,they would be PHENOMENAL academic additions to the Big Ten.

What do you mean a "quest for world domination"? Virginia, as stated above, is only separated from the Big Ten by Maryland, and North Carolina is contiguous to Virginia. Adding those two teams would actually be a pretty good geographical fit.

Lastly, if you think Jim Delany does not want ND in the Big Ten, you are utterly insane. You do know Delany was the commish in 99 when the Big Ten wanted ND. Do you think he just forgot about that? Absolutely not.
 
The addition of Nebraska proves your statement wrong-that the B10 is first and foremost an academic conference.
 
ChocoLoco said:
The addition of Nebraska proves your statement wrong-that the B10 is first and foremost an academic conference.
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Really? Nebraska is an AAU school. There are only, I believe, 63 AAU schools in the country and that invite is by invitation only. Just because Nebraska doesn't rank very highly in the US News and World Report ranking doesn't mean they aren't a good academic school.
 
Raziel said:
LOL! Athletic non entity? Virginia just placed top 5 in the directors cup standings and is one of the top 30 wealthiest athletic departments in the country. They also happen to be located in a state with a population of around 8 million - a great thing for the BTN. Further, geographically, they are only separated from the Big Ten by state of Maryland (which is an exceptionally small state). It's not like Virginia would be on an island like a Texas would be.

A couple of basketball schools? LOL! Duke and UNC aren't just "a couple of basketball schools". They are two of the most prestigious basketball schools in the history of the sport. Further, they are in one of the fastest growing states in the country which features a population of around 9 million people. You do realize that the BTN generates money due to TV subscribers, right? I'll guaran-damn-tee you that Duke/UNC would generate more TV subscribers/advertising revenue for the BTN than Syracuse/Rutgers/Mizzou. Hell, I'll guarantee you that Duke/UNC would do a better job delivering the NYC market than Syracuse and Rutgers combined. There are more Duke/UNC fans in NYC than there are Rutgers/Syracuse fans. Adding Duke/UNC would be a HUGE national draw for the BTN.

Perhaps the most shortsighted comment in your entire post: "This is an athletic conference. It is not a quest for world domination." First and foremost, the Big Ten is an academic conference, it is an athletic conference second. Never forget that. The addition of Duke/UNC/Virginia would generated HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars for Big Ten schools in collaborative research funding. That revenue makes athletic revenue look like pennies. Those three schools are three of the most prestigious schools in the country,they would be PHENOMENAL academic additions to the Big Ten.

What do you mean a "quest for world domination"? Virginia, as stated above, is only separated from the Big Ten by Maryland, and North Carolina is contiguous to Virginia. Adding those two teams would actually be a pretty good geographical fit.

Lastly, if you think Jim Delany does not want ND in the Big Ten, you are utterly insane. You do know Delany was the commish in 99 when the Big Ten wanted ND. Do you think he just forgot about that? Absolutely not.
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re: Director's Cup. Virginia is ranked #3, Duke #4, UNC #5. You know why? Lacrosse. Tennis. Golf. Soccer. Field hockey. Yes, basketball (but only in Duke's case). The Big Ten doesn't even offer championships in a lot of the sports those three schools excel in, and I don't think the Big Ten Network is breathing heavy over the prospect of finally nailing down the rights to Virginia lacrosse.

re: Geography. You say these schools won't be on an island because there's only one state separating them. There's also something called the Appalachian mountains to the west and the Mason-Dixon line to the north, and those are two pretty big cultural barriers to cross. And it's an 8-hour drive from Durham to the closest existing Big Ten school (Ohio State).

re: Duke/UNC, basketball, and the Big Ten Network: why on earth would those two leave their deals with ESPN to get the coveted 9:00 EST slot on the BTN?

re: the Big Ten is an academic conference: No, it's not. Go to the Big Ten website and show me the information about academic cooperation and research. You're talking about the CIC, which is a consortium of Big Ten schools plus that athletic powerhouse the University of Chicago. CIC schools already collaborate with UNC, Virginia, and Duke. They don't need a swim meet to tell them which schools they can do research with. See literally the first hit I got when I googled this-- it's a collaboration between researchers at Duke and Michigan:

Index/Welcome

And expansion of the CIC doesn't mean more research dollars for each school. The schools still compete for grants individually. This is a myth.

re: Notre Dame. I agree that the Big Ten wants Notre Dame. But they aren't going to bend over backwards for them, give them a bigger chunk of revenue, or invite other schools to accommodate them. And if ND keeps saying no, eventually the Big Ten will stop knocking on their door.

I'll put it this way: if Duke, UNC or Virginia ever join the Big Ten, I'll never post here again and I'll ask the admins to block my IP address.
 
olivecourt said:
re: Director's Cup. Virginia is ranked #3, Duke #4, UNC #5. You know why? Lacrosse. Tennis. Golf. Soccer. Field hockey. Yes, basketball (but only in Duke's case). The Big Ten doesn't even offer championships in a lot of the sports those three schools excel in, and I don't think the Big Ten Network is breathing heavy over the prospect of finally nailing down the rights to Virginia lacrosse.

re: Geography. You say these schools won't be on an island because there's only one state separating them. There's also something called the Appalachian mountains to the west and the Mason-Dixon line to the north, and those are two pretty big cultural barriers to cross. And it's an 8-hour drive from Durham to the closest existing Big Ten school (Ohio State).

re: Duke/UNC, basketball, and the Big Ten Network: why on earth would those two leave their deals with ESPN to get the coveted 9:00 EST slot on the BTN?

re: the Big Ten is an academic conference: No, it's not. Go to the Big Ten website and show me the information about academic cooperation and research. You're talking about the CIC, which is a consortium of Big Ten schools plus that athletic powerhouse the University of Chicago. CIC schools already collaborate with UNC, Virginia, and Duke. They don't need a swim meet to tell them which schools they can do research with. See literally the first hit I got when I googled this-- it's a collaboration between researchers at Duke and Michigan:

Index/Welcome

And expansion of the CIC doesn't mean more research dollars for each school. The schools still compete for grants individually. This is a myth.

re: Notre Dame. I agree that the Big Ten wants Notre Dame. But they aren't going to bend over backwards for them, give them a bigger chunk of revenue, or invite other schools to accommodate them. And if ND keeps saying no, eventually the Big Ten will stop knocking on their door.

I'll put it this way: if Duke, UNC or Virginia ever join the Big Ten, I'll never post here again and I'll ask the admins to block my IP address.
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Just curious, who do you see the Big Ten adding? Because Duke/UNC/Virginia offer as much or more to the Big Ten as Rutgers, Syracuse, Pit, Mizzouri, et. al. Give me a legitimate candidate for Big Ten expansion that offers more than UNC/Duke. I agree that Virginia isn't a major athletic home run, but they are an academic home run, and they are a good geographic addition if you are going to add UNC/Duke.
 
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