Yea I was guilty of using a 1 game sample to base my opinion there. I do think that Jok's defense is night and day better than the defense Oglesby played against Minnesota though. I also think that Jok has improved a lot on the last few weeks to improve from horrible to not very good or just ok. He's not far off from the average defense Oglesby normally plays. He honestly might already be there.
somebody please f'ing explain why
- Thread starter hawkeye12345
- Start date
Yea I was guilty of using a 1 game sample to base my opinion there. I do think that Jok's defense is night and day better than the defense Oglesby played against Minnesota though. I also think that Jok has improved a lot on the last few weeks to improve from horrible to not very good or just ok. He's not far off from the average defense Oglesby normally plays. He honestly might already be there.
SnapBack2
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to waste my time looking for a bunch of examples, so I just scrolled down the screen to find this thread from after the MSU game.... Is Fran the Answer? Read that first page. The board goes nuts after a loss because they don't understand that you aren't going to win every game in basketball. Then they put all the blame on Fran. It's not fair or accurate.
Second, in my post, I was generalizing. I never mentioned anything about Jok or Oglesby. In fact, from a macro point of view, I actually agree with what you said. But some people hammer on Oglesby like he doesn't ever deserve to be on the floor just because he's not lighting up the points column every night.
StanziUSA
Well-Known Member
Well, smart guy......1) Oglesby Plays because he is one of our better defenders along with Gabe and Asap. He gives relieving minutes....um for #2 he sat a lot vs Minnesota because different games bring different situations, imagine that. I hardly saw gessel sit vs UNC. Both of those decision are made by Fran, he's a division 1 high level coach for a reason. I trust he puts the Hawks in the best position to win, he has passion unlike Captain Kirk. The real question you should have asked is why Gabe didnt play as much and why he wasnt involved in the offensive sets a little more with slip screens or backdoor v screens.
MiniMoeHawk
Well-Known Member
Gabe is still raw defensively and is out of position quite often. Also, he hasn't had nearly as many blocks in B1G play as he did earlier this year. Woodbury is better defensively even though Fran wants him to run way too far outside of the lane. Gabe is getting better on both sides of the ball but Woody will be in there when the defense needs a stop. Mike G is also a decent defender....He had the clutch penetration and kick out to JU that hit the 3 to finish off Minnesota. The team needs Mike G to have to a good game to win. He is the best guard on the team.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Guess I just thought you were making the claim that in this thread people were calling for his head (which I didn't see). My apologies. I agree that people overreact after a loss, and I do understand there have been some ridiculous threads started because of it. The one you linked is a good example.
I trust Fran and I certainly like the guy. However, I am questioning his loyalty to Oglesby at this point. He's contributed very little while on the court this season. At some point I'd like to see Fran give more of his minutes to Jok. He deserves them. He's younger and he has a lot more to gain from the minutes than Oglesby does at this point in his career. I would understand Oglesby getting those minutes if he were contributing more than Jok at this point because it is all about winning right now. However, I feel like it's reached the point where he isn't contributing more than Jok anymore. Which tells me there is really very little value in continuing to give him as many minutes as he has been getting. Jok getting those minutes helps the team out more now, and it certainly helps the team out more in the long run.
I have heard Fran mention pulling Jok because he was gased before. Maybe it's a conditioning thing?
SnapBack2
Well-Known Member
We're on the same page.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
I was on the team when Coach Lewis "Buzz" Levick was at the end of his 9 IIAC championships. We had a lull while I was there but he managed to win 5 more. I learned from the best. The guy had over 500 wins at Wartburg and there were some teams he had that were considered the best college team in the state. We did beat the South Dakota Coyotes when I was on the team.
Oh, and for the Hawk fans.... the current Wartburg coach, who has been there for 18 years, is Dick Peth.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
I'll agree that Oglesby and Clemmons are two of our better defenders. I will say that Gabe is a good shot blocker, but he's not a good defender. He's out of position, looking for the shot block rather than playing position defense underneath and denying his man the position on the block. When he was in there against Minnesota, the post players for Minnesota got their spots on the block without a fight and the ball was entered to the post easily. That led to turn-around double teams and kickouts for easy three point shots. When Woody was in there, the Minnesota posts never set up on the block. They were at least three feet farther out. No easy post feeds because spacing was not present and thus no kickouts.
knighthawk13
Well-Known Member
Buzz is definitely a legend. My dad played for him in the early 60's. The coaching situation was a revolving door when I was there. Marty Simmons (coach at Evansville now) was one of the coaches while I was there.
HawgEyeState
Banned
Adam Woodbury was praised by Coach Fran and the Big10 commentators after the Minnesota game.
Adam had 8 rebounds and made several key plays in IOWA's win.
Great job by Adam and Terrible job by some fans not recognizing Woody's game on Tuesday nite.
Jok and Uthoff are the best scorers on the team by far. (White is a terrific penetrator, but can't that's 90% of his game).
I think if Jok And Uthoff both played 30 min. Pre game they would score 18 points per game and Hawks would be less likely to go long stretches not scoring.
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
My last game was against Wartburg. Won by 20, and I had 20 something. It's a good story too bro so don't even say anything.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I'll be the first to admit I'm not a Woodbury fan. Nothing against the kid just not sold on him at this point in his career. My opinion was the praising of Woodbury during the course of the game went above and beyond what was necessary. I think he brings a lot to the team and am in no way saying he is a bad player. That said I think what a lot of us have issue with is that for someone who does a considerably great job in terms of positioning he doesn't use his height. I'm not saying the guy needs to be a shot blocker but time and time again I see shots going up around him in traffic. Whether they're good or bad shots it infuriates me because he simply doesn't get his arms up to contest it. Gabe's a good shot blocker but not as good at being in the right position, but what common fans see in Gabe is the fact that he's always got his hands up contesting shots. I'm simply tired of seeing uncontested shots in a 7 footers vicinity.
And not a flame but I think part of the problem is the expectations. I agree with congratulating his play but despite the fact that Adam "had 8 rebounds and made several key plays in the win" I find it odd that he's being praised for having 8 rebounds. In my opinion high rebound totals should be expected from a 7 footer. Again no shots fired at Adam just observations about why his game is criticized.
Ha you said White's a terrific penetrator.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
That's what she said lol
Woodbury is a good player. There are a lot of games Iowa wouldn't of won in the last three years without Woodbury. He probably won't score twenty points a game, but the other centers in the conference know who he is.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I'm not disputing that. All I'm saying is, as many others have, is that I'd like to see him doing a better job of getting a hand up or obstructing an easy look when he's helping defend or protecting the rim. I also stated that I feel its a little ridiculous to praise a 7 footer for pulling in 8 boards. I feel, and again just my opinion, that a quality 7 footer should be pulling in a decent amount of rebounds a night.
I do agree that he won't score 20 points a night. I'd be beyond thrilled with 10.
knighthawk13
Well-Known Member
Whatever, bro. Do you even lift?
