knighthawk13
Well-Known Member
Jok's defense is awful. He got caught flat footed multiple times last night. I think Fran left him on the bench too long, but Josh's defense is night and day better than Jok's right now.
somebody please f'ing explain why
- Thread starter hawkeye12345
- Start date
Jok's defense is awful. He got caught flat footed multiple times last night. I think Fran left him on the bench too long, but Josh's defense is night and day better than Jok's right now.
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
I agree with op about playing ogleclank at this point and will also cyber kick nuts to anyone who thinks he should be getting any significant minutes unless he is makings shots. It's simple. If you can hit your shots you can play, if not you set. I think the mad man likes him and it is loyalty to him that is getting him minutes.
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
I hear all these comments about joks D so I watched it a little bit last night and didn't see anything atrocious like has been mentioned. Granted I didny entirely focus on that so I could have missed something but outside of woody I didn't see any significant difference between him and anyone else
Jok is inconsistent. He has times where he gets flat footed and looks bad. But he also has times where he is extremely quick and closes under control. Oglesby doesn't have the ability to do what Jok does when Jok does it right. Until he does it more consistently though, he won't be considered a better defender than Oglesby. That is unless Oglesby continues to do what he did last night.
knighthawk13
Well-Known Member
As Jok continues to improve his defense (I think he will) he will continue to see the floor more. He was terrible in the second half and that is why he sat. There was an example they replayed where Jok didn't even attempt to run out and guard a made 3 point shot. Josh is definitely limited, but he generally doesn't let stuff like that happen.
I know Oglesby is normally a lot better than he was last night, but last night his defense was at least as bad if not worse than the worst defense I've ever seen Jok play. There was a few times where he looked like he was going through a walk through in practice.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
Adam got head all night from the BTN announcers for his defense and court awareness. The was the talk of the quick post game interview with Fran? WTF. I might have spent the first part on Uthoff, but that's just me. How do you lead with a question...Woodbury played a great game tonight?
Nothing against Adam because he did play great position defense...but Uthoff was freaking money at critical times. Hell, I thought the three that Uhl hit was ballsy. I loved that he just ripped that shot. I think thats going to help him. I like that kid a lot.
Nothing against Adam because he did play great position defense...but Uthoff was freaking money at critical times. Hell, I thought the three that Uhl hit was ballsy. I loved that he just ripped that shot. I think thats going to help him. I like that kid a lot.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
^^This. And I can't believe it was down voted! What are the down voters watching? Only when they are playing on-ball defense? There's a lot more to defense than just getting set in front of your man when he has the ball.
Yes, Jok is MUCH better than he was earlier in the season. No one disagrees with this. But he's got to improve at least as much on top of that to be called an average defender. And that's what JO is - an average defender.
Knight78
Well-Known Member
You're kidding, right? When he was on the weak side, was he in good help or rotation position? When he was on ball side off the ball was he open to help? When he was on-ball and his man was in the corner, did he deny baseline? (I can answer all of these the same, and if you watched the same game I did, you know what that answer is)
As I said, he's better than he used to be. He needs to get a LOT better. Oh, BTW, White and Utoff aren't better at denying baseline but can recover better. And both of them are usually in good help and rotation position.
Being where you are supposed to be every second of the opponent's possession is a HUGE part of defense. Iowa is getting better at that, but we still need to improve overall.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
Woodbury played great last night and showed why he still gets good minutes, and Gabe showed why he's still not a polished player.
You're right that Jok needs to improve more to be as good as Oges usually is. But if Ogelsby plays like he did last night, Jok is better. Just a downright horrible defensive effort from him. Fran is going to chew him up in the film room.
SnapBack2
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, most posters don't understand basic schemes. They don't watch help-side defense, closing out on shooters or ball denial for post defense.
I don't know everything either. But if I don't know, I just keep quiet. I don't pretend I do and start screaming "fire Fran!"
knighthawk13
Well-Known Member
Clearly the down votes were by posters who didn't get a quality Wartburg education like we did.
hawkeye12345
Well-Known Member
Joks defense is not nearly as bad as some of you want to make it out to be. Is he a defensive stopper? Hell no. But what he offers on the offensive side of the ball, and his length, more than offset his lack of desire on D.
Jok averages fewer minutes but more points, more rebounds, more steals, more assists, higher FG%, higher 3pt FG% than Oglewinkel.
Jok averages fewer minutes but more points, more rebounds, more steals, more assists, higher FG%, higher 3pt FG% than Oglewinkel.
knighthawk13
Well-Known Member
Jok- 295 minutes. 17 assists, 21 TOs, 37 rebounds, .327 from 3
JO- 351 minutes. 33 assists, 10 TOs, 42 rebounds, .279 from 3
Jok is definitely the better scorer, but his other stats aren't so much better than JO's that Fran is going to look past his defensive ineptness. I also don't think JO is a defensive stopper by any means, but they are night and day right now on the defensive side of the ball. As I said before, as Peter continues to get better on defense, he's going to get more minutes.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Yet you exaggerate and pretend like people are saying fire Fran? Show me a post in this thread where anyone is saying that please....
This is really pretty simple to me. I don't disagree with anyone who is saying Jok needs to work on his defense. However, Oglesby's defense is not that much better than Jok's and frankly he's regressing on offense while Jok is progressing into a legit offensive threat. That's why I don't quite understand why Jok was benched for as long as he was. Yes, I understand Minny was on a run and Jok's defense might have been a liability. However, I feel like the offense he can provide is worth him being out there compared to the mediocre to poor overall play we've seen from Oglesby. I like JO. I understand he's a hard worker and I understand Fran probably wants to get him minutes. The bottom line to me is that Jok has earned those minutes with his play more so than JO has. If Fran wants to get JO minutes I'm fine with that. Run a couple plays for him. See if he can knock down a shot or two and get hot. If he doesn't then get Jok back in the game.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Ogelsby has a total of 3 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assist, 2 TO, and 1 steal in his last 3 games in 66 minutes played. Think about that for a second. Those are his combined stats in 66 minutes played. You have to be the best defensive stopper in the world to get on the court playing like this, and the player you are defending for 66 min. better have 0 points, 0 rebounds, and 5 TO to justify this. Ogs is an OK defender, but he is nearly invisible on the offensive end of the court, and the stats back that statement up.
Jok over the last 3 games:
21 points, 4 reb, 2 assists, 4 TO, 4 Steals in 54 minutes played.
Jok is getting better both offensively and defensively. Ogs is going into a shell, and is a SR. for Gawd's sake, this should be when he is stepping up. It is time to get Jok on the court at least 25 MPG and cut Ogs minutes to 10-15 MPG.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Agreed. This is B10 basketball. You don't play someone simply out of loyalty and hard work. If you can't earn your minutes on the court and someone else is then they deserve those minutes. It's about winning basketball games. It's that simple. For whatever reason Oglesby just isn't a gamer. I'm sure Fran sees him light it up in practice all the time, but when the lights turn on he's shown that more often than not he disappears.
Jok on the other hand is a gamer. His shot is smooth and he has a very quick release. The more confidence he gets the better he's going to be. That's why I have a problem with him riding the pine for 10+ minutes. He's a streaky shooter. You sit a guy like him for that long and then when or if he comes back in he's probably going to be cold.
PC IDK about that. plus JO is still bettr at know when to be where. But Jok is passing him by very quickly. Its nice to see a kid come around like Jok is