I used to say that too but you're right. Ulis said he would have gone to MSU.
So What are the expectations of the Iowa Program?
- Thread starter longtimer
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I used to say that too but you're right. Ulis said he would have gone to MSU.
Seth53
Well-Known Member
This.
However, when we have a chance, once in a blue moon, to be +3 SD from our usual norm, it's damned deflating when we fall short of that.
D
DDThompson
Guest
It is easy to be a program-changing coach at North Carolina, Kansas, or Duke.
Iowa isn't North Carolina, Kansas, or Duke.
If the losses hadn't come all at once for 2 of the last 3 years, but instead were spaced out more, i wonder how different opinions would be. Here are just some interesting w/l numbers, for this senior class.
We've won 88 games (hopefully more) that past 4 years overall. We have 42 wins in conference play over that span as well. 24 conference wins the last 2 years, which is the most since Mr. Davis's first 2 years. We have finished NIT runner-up, NCAA play-in, 1 NCAA win, and at least qualifying for the NCAAs again this year. We may win or lose the first game. That is dependent in large on who we play. ESPN currently has us playing Gonzaga in a 6/11 game in Denver, which would be a tough game. Especially given the craziness that has defined college hoops this year, so many ranked teams have lost games this year, virtually any scenario is in play. i expect this to be one of the wildest tournaments in years.
Next year, who the heck knows? We will go from being one of the most experienced teams in the country to one of the youngest. on paper we will have just 3 upperclassment (jok, uhl and jones). Jok is the only starter, uhl has been inconsistent, and jones was injured. the rest of the roster sounds promising on paper, but i just have no idea what to think.
As a fan, my expectation has always been to compete for the NCAAs, and qualify most years. Without knowing the specifics of a particular year, i don't like to say more than that. This year has actually exceeded my pre-season expectations, which were tempered due to the large number of question marks off the bench. It has turned into a somewhat disappointing season because of how high we got, but ironically, we ended up about where i thought we would.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Great post.
I started looking back at previous years and we just don't have 3 year runs like this. Alfraud never made 3 NCAA tournaments in a row, he never won more than 27 B1G games in a 3 year period. Mr. Davis didn't make 3 NCAA tournys in a row since the '90-'93 seasons and he won 30 B1G games in that 3 year span.
My expectation are qualify for the NCAA tournament. We have done that 3 years in a row now.
It may not be Fran's fault, but ultimately, it's his responsibility for the collapses the last two of three years, and the quick exit in the B1G tourney the last 3 years. That said, I am willing to zoom out and take a more historical perspective of what the program has achieved lately vs. how they have performed historically.
Cool web site: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/iowa/1982-schedule.html
I remember a team with a lot of early Big 10 promise that collapsed in the back part of the conference schedule. For those old enough to remember, click the link for the roster of players (love how it looks like a bad photo copy) and you'll see that Lute Olson had some pretty good players, but they struggled down the stretch. It happens. I'm not saying Fran is Lute, I'm saying players can struggle and it's probably really hard to stop the bleeding as a coach.
Back to present day, I think Fran and staff has the goods to coach the program. I'm not a knee-jerk, get rid of him because he lost a few games, kind of fan. This team was 10-1 in the Big 10. I know how they finished 12-6, I just don't know why they couldn't stop it from happening. Part of it is on Fran's approach, as it is his job to push all the right buttons. However, much of it is on player execution on the court, and to play through the rough patches.
I have no way to know this, I just sometimes wonder, do the players tighten up because Fran tightens up? If that is so, can Fran overcome himself and help the players loosen up and play with more confidence? In other words, "Guys, forget what's happened, I believe in you and your talents. Go do your job to the best of your ability, play fearless, let it rip, and leave it all on the court. You can do it!" Lately it has the feel of "Don't screw it up!" Again, I have no way to know this, but perhaps there is something to this. This doesn't just seem to be one or two key guys struggling, it seems to be a collective effort. I don't see quit, I see tightness, and I think part of that can be coached, but perhaps not so easily if the coach is also tense.
I know they can do it. I've seen proof this year. Can they overcome themselves, forget the recent past struggles, and just rely on each other and their love for the game? We'll see. Go Hawks!
Cool web site: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/iowa/1982-schedule.html
I remember a team with a lot of early Big 10 promise that collapsed in the back part of the conference schedule. For those old enough to remember, click the link for the roster of players (love how it looks like a bad photo copy) and you'll see that Lute Olson had some pretty good players, but they struggled down the stretch. It happens. I'm not saying Fran is Lute, I'm saying players can struggle and it's probably really hard to stop the bleeding as a coach.
Back to present day, I think Fran and staff has the goods to coach the program. I'm not a knee-jerk, get rid of him because he lost a few games, kind of fan. This team was 10-1 in the Big 10. I know how they finished 12-6, I just don't know why they couldn't stop it from happening. Part of it is on Fran's approach, as it is his job to push all the right buttons. However, much of it is on player execution on the court, and to play through the rough patches.
I have no way to know this, I just sometimes wonder, do the players tighten up because Fran tightens up? If that is so, can Fran overcome himself and help the players loosen up and play with more confidence? In other words, "Guys, forget what's happened, I believe in you and your talents. Go do your job to the best of your ability, play fearless, let it rip, and leave it all on the court. You can do it!" Lately it has the feel of "Don't screw it up!" Again, I have no way to know this, but perhaps there is something to this. This doesn't just seem to be one or two key guys struggling, it seems to be a collective effort. I don't see quit, I see tightness, and I think part of that can be coached, but perhaps not so easily if the coach is also tense.
I know they can do it. I've seen proof this year. Can they overcome themselves, forget the recent past struggles, and just rely on each other and their love for the game? We'll see. Go Hawks!
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
SteveGarvey
Well-Known Member
Does your expectations include being in the top 10 at some point during the season, as Iowa has been two out of the last three years? Because that success and the come-back-to-earth fall is what's fueling a lot of the vitriol right now.
BlacknGold19
Well-Known Member
I expect toughness from players. I expect the game to be played with passion and emotion(Baer). I expect to lose games here and there but not the way this team loses them time after time. We are basically in every game but when it comes down to crunch time we fold 95% of the time.
I expect 4 year Senior players to play smart and clutch basketball. I expect leadership from these players. But constantly turning the ball over, missing free throws and not playing fundamental basketball down the stretch makes me question our coach and our players.
I'm tired of watching Gesell dribble around and fail in crunch time. Why are there no adjustments? Why not try something different?
I also saw Connor McCaffrey bricked a crucial 1 n 1 free throw in the State Semifinals last night in a tie game with 4 seconds left. It already makes me question his mental toughness and he isn't on campus yet. He got bailed out by a lucky tip in. I want Iowa players to step up to the line with confidence and bury a clutch free throw. I want Iowa players to make a clutch shot with the game on the line period!
I want toughness.
I expect 4 year Senior players to play smart and clutch basketball. I expect leadership from these players. But constantly turning the ball over, missing free throws and not playing fundamental basketball down the stretch makes me question our coach and our players.
I'm tired of watching Gesell dribble around and fail in crunch time. Why are there no adjustments? Why not try something different?
I also saw Connor McCaffrey bricked a crucial 1 n 1 free throw in the State Semifinals last night in a tie game with 4 seconds left. It already makes me question his mental toughness and he isn't on campus yet. He got bailed out by a lucky tip in. I want Iowa players to step up to the line with confidence and bury a clutch free throw. I want Iowa players to make a clutch shot with the game on the line period!
I want toughness.
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proudhawkfan21
Well-Known Member
We sure didn't appreciate Mr. Davis did we? I think everything that has "not happened" for the program is a result of karma putting a big Ole boot in our rear. SINCE Mr. Davis left, define success for the Hawkeye basketball program. How many tournament wins? And we ran a guy out of town that floored good teams with some iowa kids in there and WON a game every year. Sure we didn't get the the sweet 16 every year..but he sure got us there more often than the zero since. This isn't a post about fran. This is a post to say thank you Mr. Davis...and i'm sorry.
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
You, me, and everyone else wants more wins and better season finishes and post season play. This team showed a ton of toughness this year by coming back multiple times from double digit deficits to make winning a possibility. They are tough, they however are not "clutch". You can maybe recruit "clutch", but you can not coach it.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
I don't give two $h!ts about where we were in January - it's where you are at the end of the year that counts. It's a 30+ game season, not 20-25. A #3 ranking in January means zero if you're unranked come March.
If you're good enough to be Top 5-10 3 months into the season, it shouldn't be too much to expect that the team won't lose 5 of 6, 6 of 7, etc. to close the season.
Coming back to earth a bit is one thing - but Iowa hasn't just come back to earth, they have completely cratered 2 of the last 3 years.
EstronHawkKing
Well-Known Member
Another Mr. Davis apologist here, yawn! Davis won zero Big 10 titles (regular season and tournaments.) He won zero national titles and he took Iowa to zero final 4's. Get over Mr. Davis already!
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Get back to me when we get a coach that starts winning Big 10 titles, and takes us to Final Fours, wins national titles, etc. etc.
No, he's not the best coach we've ever had, but to this point, Mr. Davis is still the best coach we've had since Lute. He's the last coach to even get us to a Sweet 16. I don't really get the Mr. Davis hate from some folks.
Not saying Fran can't eventually surpass anything Davis accomplished, but that's yet to be determined. One 1st Round win as a 7 seed..
Fran hasn't done anything (yet) that Mr. Davis or Alford couldn't do.
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proudhawkfan21
Well-Known Member
I'll have what HE'S having! Woo wee! What is that in there 1 million proof alcohol? Final Fours? National titles? Big 10 championships? Did I say Mr. Davis was the greatest basketball coach since John Wooden? I'm tempering expectations here Hoss. I'm drinking the sugar free kool-aid that my grandmother and every administrator at the U of I has set in front of me since Lute left. I don't know if you all are ready for this...but...we will never be Duke. We will never be North Carolina. We will never be Michigan State or Indiana. We pulled in a washed up salesman who could recruit, a nice man who was a decent coach for the boys, three mid major flavor of the month club coaches...we are not going to get a big name unless he has huge baggage. Remember Lavin or big boy out in Utah, Majerus, when their names get brought up? We pass. Even then they are past the height of their career. What are you waiting on? The administration has been "hoping" to get lucky and that one of these mid major star coaches translates.
To defend Mr. Davis in this case is to defend a near final four trip, yes with raveling recruits, some trips to the sweet 16 and a guaranteed first round win and almost guaranteed trip to the dance. Knowing what we know about our chances or willingness to sign a big name coach, shouldn't that be good enough? Is there a chance with a special group that one can break through like wisconsin did, sure? Davis was nor Wooden or Iba or Smith or Knight, but it was the best days in the past 30 years....30+ years. How many final fours did Lute take us to? One. I think Davis was 5 minutes from matching that so that argument is out the window.
Fran. Fran can recruit, communicate, run a program and has passion. Three straight trips to the dance and a win last year. Before we get all drunk on some fictional story about an Iowa basketball dynasty that slays the big ten dragon and scales the ncaa tournament bridge over the lava pit and rescues the final four princess and ....cover your eyes....makes sweet love to a national championship, remember that story will never be written. Let Fran write his story, and at the end of the story, maybe there is a happy ending. But enjoy the journey. If you are looking for perfect, look in the mirror and remember reality is staring back at you. Go hawks!
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
Iowa has never won a national title in basketball and only once played for NC, in 1956. Since 1956(60 years), Iowa has 2 final fours, 2 elite 8, 6 sweet 16 appearances. Davis accounts for 1 of the 2 elite 8 and 2 of the 6 sweet 16's.
Iowa has made the NCAA tournament 24 times total, 9 of them were under Davis.
His brand of basketball was fun to watch, he had likely one of the most beloved teams in Hawkeye history, and his winning % is 2nd (barely)to only Pops Harrison (1940's).
Being the All Time winningest coach in Iowa basketball history gets you some love, and it should.
Using Mr. Davis as a benchmark isn't being an apologist, it's having perspective on what success for Iowa basketball has meant for 6 decades.
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
Bang. Yep. ^^^
I'll add that if Davis doesn't get credit for coaching Ravelings recruits(a few of which Lute's success landed)...then Fran gets an absolute pass for his first 2 years.
