So, what are the chances??

[Fryowa]

Both will be back. Pemsl will be gone.

/thread

 

[BGOLD]

Tell me when Cook starts even playing moderate defense.

That's a Fran problem

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Moss will be back no doubt already pretty much been said by him. Cook I think he's itching to cash a paycheck. Be it in the NBA, or somewhere else. Is there a chance he'll come back to Iowa? Yeah but I think it's a coin flip almost. What's he willing to get paid to play? 30k that the G league pays or so? Is he willing to go overseas? 6 figures over there is no problem for him to get per yr. But going over there isn't for everyone culture wise. I just hope whomever he's around daily that's giving him advice is honest about where he is and not pumping him full of 'Oh your a sure fire 2nd round pick' and you'll get endorsement $ talk. I just can't see him being that good yet and if he jumps for the NBA with delusions of grandeur...

If I'm him here's my line of thinking. Not knowing his financial situation at all I would have to consider playing next yr in the G league. Get paid a little bit and against that level of competition and see where you stand. It's not just that level of competition it's also the NBA style of game and coaching. Faster pace, a lot less zone, 6 fouls etc etc. I think that would benefit his own development faster than another year at Iowa would strait up. If after that he can get a shot in the NBA great if not go to Europe and make more $. But that's just me...

 

[hawkdrummer1]

There have been a lot of NBA players that were 6 ft 9 that could dominate in the paint in rebounding and defense. Being a great outside shooter wasn't a requirement.

A lot? Not in the last 20 years. Even so...you said "defense". That would eliminate Cook.

 

[Fryowa]

There have been a lot of NBA players that were 6 ft 9 that could dominate in the paint in rebounding and defense. Being a great outside shooter wasn't a requirement.

Cook gets frustrated too easy against guys bigger than him when he can't get to the rim, and he starts playing sloppy. A lot of times in college he gets "rewarded" for that by drawing fouls. Get mad, let the elbows fly and force a dunk. That doesn't work in the NBA or even G-league where guys are way bigger and stronger. He wouldn't get those chances to start bucking defenders off, because unless he magically becomes a mid range shooting threat he's not getting anywhere close to the basket.

 

[GoHawks24]

That's a Fran problem

While I agree that the root cause of our shitty defense is Fran, want-to and effort are huge factors in playing effective defense. The effort at times (most times) last season was very lacking, and Fran should be pulling guys and chewing their ass that jog it back on defense.

 

[CP87]

Cook won't see an NBA floor in his career. G-League, yes. NBA, not a chance.

The real question is will Cook or Pemsl be Hawkeyes. If Cook stays, Pemsl is gone, and vice versa.

Cook is hopefully going to get a stone cold dose of reality that there are only 450 players on NBA rosters, about half of them forwards, and very few of them actually ever get any playing time. He is not in that group, and not even close. He's not only competing with every college player, but also the entire G-League and hundreds of European players. There are over 70 of them on NBA rosters this year alone.

Leaving as a junior would be the absolute dumbest thing he could possibly do for his basketball career. Someone needs to get through to him that making an NBA roster is by far the hardest break-through in pro sports. It's astronomical.

I have heard that PGA tour golfer is harder, but I can't remember the rationale. I agree with you that Cook is miles away from an NBA player at this moment. I won't be quite so dismissive of his eventual chance of making it, because that are some incredible stories of circuitous paths to the NBA:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...nch-and-floors-crowd-in-helluva-opening-night

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...pper-cj-williams-two-way-journey-g-league-nba

 

[CP87]

If you want to be an All-Star yes, but in the league, no. There are still plenty of guys Cook's size who are productive in the NBA and don't have a jump shot or protect the paint (which I could argue is more of a defensive philosophy problem more than anything, I'll get to that in a minute). Jordan Bell, Julius Randle, and Blake Griffin are all similar in size to Cook and play a similar style. At this stage in their careers, I think Cook is not only more athletic but also stronger than all of these guys (Jordan Bell is right up there) and is the youngest of the four.
In terms of defensive, Cook has no doubt not looked the part but neither has anyone under Fran and I think it's more of a flawed philosophy than flawed players. For instance, Ricky Rubio was always thought to be a terrible and slow defender until this year, his first under Quinn Snyder, he's now expected to be named to an NBA All-Defense team, and is considered one of the best defensive guards in the NBA in year 7! I'm by no means suggesting Cook is on the same path, just pointing out how narratives can change with a good coach.

Rubio was never thought to be a terrible defender, he has been widely considered to be one of the top defensive PGs for years (unfortunate T-Wolves fan here).

Julius Randle might be a decent comp for Cook, but he put up 15 and 10 in his freshman year at Kentucky, as opposed to Cook's 12 and 5 in his freshman year (Cook put up 15 and 7 in his sophomore year).

Comparing Cook's athleticism to Griffin's seems a bit outlandish, although maybe at this stage in Griffin's career they are not that far apart. But in this stage of his career Griffin is a passable NBA 3-pt shooter (has averaged more than 5 attempts per game over that last 2 years, shooting around 34.5%), and Griffin has been a great playmaker throughout his career, averaging 4.3 asst/game (6.2 asst/game this past season) to 2.5 TO/game. Griffin flashed those skills a bit in college (certainly more than Cook has).

Also keep in mind, as a college sophomore Griffin put up 22.7 pts/14.4 reb/2.3 asst per game while shooting 65% overall and 37.5% from 3 and being named National Player of the Year. I get that you are talking "style of play", but Griffin was so much better at playing that similar style that it is tough to look at him as a comp.

 

[SteveGarvey1]

If you want to be an All-Star yes, but in the league, no. There are still plenty of guys Cook's size who are productive in the NBA and don't have a jump shot or protect the paint (which I could argue is more of a defensive philosophy problem more than anything, I'll get to that in a minute). Jordan Bell, Julius Randle, and Blake Griffin are all similar in size to Cook and play a similar style. At this stage in their careers, I think Cook is not only more athletic but also stronger than all of these guys (Jordan Bell is right up there) and is the youngest of the four.
In terms of defensive, Cook has no doubt not looked the part but neither has anyone under Fran and I think it's more of a flawed philosophy than flawed players. For instance, Ricky Rubio was always thought to be a terrible and slow defender until this year, his first under Quinn Snyder, he's now expected to be named to an NBA All-Defense team, and is considered one of the best defensive guards in the NBA in year 7! I'm by no means suggesting Cook is on the same path, just pointing out how narratives can change with a good coach.

Yeah, I guess you're right. But I think it's trending towards what I pointed out.

 

[BGOLD]

Rubio was never thought to be a terrible defender, he has been widely considered to be one of the top defensive PGs for years (unfortunate T-Wolves fan here).

Julius Randle might be a decent comp for Cook, but he put up 15 and 10 in his freshman year at Kentucky, as opposed to Cook's 12 and 5 in his freshman year (Cook put up 15 and 7 in his sophomore year).

Comparing Cook's athleticism to Griffin's seems a bit outlandish, although maybe at this stage in Griffin's career they are not that far apart. But in this stage of his career Griffin is a passable NBA 3-pt shooter (has averaged more than 5 attempts per game over that last 2 years, shooting around 34.5%), and Griffin has been a great playmaker throughout his career, averaging 4.3 asst/game (6.2 asst/game this past season) to 2.5 TO/game. Griffin flashed those skills a bit in college (certainly more than Cook has).

Also keep in mind, as a college sophomore Griffin put up 22.7 pts/14.4 reb/2.3 asst per game while shooting 65% overall and 37.5% from 3 and being named National Player of the Year. I get that you are talking "style of play", but Griffin was so much better at playing that similar style that it is tough to look at him as a comp.

No doubt Griffin WAS more of an explosive athlete, but he mostly lives in the mid-range now and is a very poor mans version of his former self. I'm speaking more to his style of play and not production. Both are built similarly and try to bully themselves to the paint more than anything and can sometimes look like a bull in a china shop. Neither are or have the ability to be a rim protector. With that said, these 'smaller' 4/5 guys such as Griffin and the others I mentioned do still exist in the NBA was my point. Not all big men stretch the floor like Durant and still rim protect. I just don't understand why some are dismissing Cook as having any pro potential. I don't expect him to be drafted, but he's so athletically and physically gifted that I wouldn't be surprised to see him improve and getting bench minutes a couple years from now.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Cook won't see an NBA floor in his career. G-League, yes. NBA, not a chance.

Not a chance? He just finished his sophomore season and is extremely athletic. He's not close to being ready for the NBA. But he's certainly got a chance with improvement in some areas.

 

[WindsorHawk]

You're f'n kidding us, right? You do realize that there are only two rounds in the entire draft? This isn't NFL where there are almost 2,000 roster spots and seven rounds in the draft. Last year there were 24 forwards taken and 8 of those were guys from overseas. That also includes small forwards which TC is not. Only 8 power forwards from the US were taken.

Someone has his Mitch King goggles on.

Cook will get signed undrafted to a G-League team and bounce around there for a while but he's not NBA material.

Just because you believe your opinion to be fact doesn't make it a fact...except in that empty space between your 2 ears.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Cook is more than capable of seeing an NBA floor in his career. I'm guessing if there were odds on such a thing, it would be in his favor. An article from 'The Athletic' just posted an article projecting him as a 2nd round pick to being undrafted this year, after just his Sophomore year.
I think it would be a good idea for Cook to return for at least his Junior season to improve his stock, but he's being misused and Fran is not going to make him any better (he's just not a good coach) so it's hard to fault Cook if he does leave.

Do you think Cook was better his sophomore year than his freshman year? I do. Do you believe he got better 100% on his own?

 

[Fryowa]

Just because you believe your opinion to be fact doesn't make it a fact...except in that empty space between your 2 ears.

Thanks for the philosophy lesson.

After that vicious tongue-lashing I've changed my mind. Tyler Cook will most likely become an All-Star by 2020. Again, thank you for setting me straight.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Here are a few of Cook's stats from freshman to sophomore year and projections for next year assuming the same rate of improvement/change.

PPG 12.3 -> 15.3 -> 19.0
RPG 5.3 -> 6.8 -> 8.7
APG 1.0 -> 1.8 -> 3.2
SPG .7 -> .6 -> .5
BPG .4 -> .6 -> .9
TPG 2.4 -> 2.5 -> 2.6
FG 55.4 -> 56.6 -> 57.8
FT 59.8 -> 66.1 -> 73.0

So projected Junior year stats...

19 PPG
8.7 RPG
3.2 APG
.5 SPG
.9 BPG
2.6 TPG
57.8 FG
73.0 FT

Those numbers look pretty good to me...and hardly unrealistic.

 

[WindsorHawk]

Chances of returning IMO

Moss = 99%
Cook = 95%

Pemsl = 35%

 

[BGOLD]

Do you think Cook was better his sophomore year than his freshman year? I do. Do you believe he got better 100% on his own?

Cook is 19 years old, you would expect him to get better. I will say, it was pretty marginal but he got better as most everyone does from their freshman to sophomore years.
I'm guessing you're angle here is to credit Fran with his slight improvement, which is a giant reach. Per 40 minutes, Cook increased his PPG by and RPG by 1 each. Like I said, marginal at best. I certainly wouldn't credit Fran with Cook's progression, I'd ask why considering his potential he didn't improve more. Is it because Fran can't coach or coach up players to reach their potential? Why did Cook's defensive rating worsen in his Sophomore year?

 

[NikeHawk21]

Here are a few of Cook's stats from freshman to sophomore year and projections for next year assuming the same rate of improvement/change.

PPG 12.3 -> 15.3 -> 19.0
RPG 5.3 -> 6.8 -> 8.7
APG 1.0 -> 1.8 -> 3.2
SPG .7 -> .6 -> .5
BPG .4 -> .6 -> .9
TPG 2.4 -> 2.5 -> 2.6
FG 55.4 -> 56.6 -> 57.8
FT 59.8 -> 66.1 -> 73.0

So projected Junior year stats...

19 PPG
8.7 RPG
3.2 APG
.5 SPG
.9 BPG
2.6 TPG
57.8 FG
73.0 FT

Those numbers look pretty good to me...and hardly unrealistic.

Wouldn’t that be something if that’s how it worked? With all the scoring options we will have next year I doubt Cook would get enough looks to average 19ppg. The real areas where we’d like to see improvement are rebounding as he has never been a great rebounder given his size and athleticism, cutting down on turnovers, and blocking more shots and improving his defense. The lack of shot blocking is quite mind boggling.

I’d hope for:
17 PPG
7.5 RPG
2.5 APG
1.5 BPG
57% FG
72% FT

That’s near a 1st Team All B1G level.

 

[HawkGold]

Thanks for the philosophy lesson.

After that vicious tongue-lashing I've changed my mind. Tyler Cook will most likely become an All-Star by 2020. Again, thank you for setting me straight.

 

[Fryowa]

That’s decent camera work.