So let's get this out of the way early....

Fryowa said:
You do understand that I was showing how Lickliter was the hottest coach in America when we hired him and turned out to be a burnt turd in the Big Ten, right? Just like almost everyone in this thread is suggesting we do once again.
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I can't speak to the exact breakdown, but I think just as many posters on this thread agree with you as don't.

Look, I can handle the take that Fran has peaked and some fans are willing to roll the dice and hope we land the next basketball genius coach. I disagree with it and think it is a bad bet, but I at least get the take. What I don't get is folks (like the OP who should be banned) bagging on Fran, canonizing Mr. Davis, and otherwise skewing the facts to make Fran appear to be a worse coach than he is. Fran is a very good MBB coach. His record speaks for itself. He is probably in the Top 20% of coaches out there, which means there are a whole lot of guys to hire that would be worse than better.

People are really taking for granted how good Iowa fans have it right now. In the last 10 years we have had almost no really bad seasons, and have had some marginal conference and national successes, in the two men's major sports; our wrestling and women's BB programs are national contenders that draw crowds and support well above the rest of their sports; and even the baseball team has made some noise the last few years. Be proud and have some perspective. The vast majority of fans out there would kill to have Iowa's success.
 
I don't get why everyone here is stating that Fran has peaked. Like, where are you getting that from? What brings you to that stance?

At what point in Fran's tenure at Iowa did he have 2 4 stars on deck with Pryce Sandfort and Ladji Dembele?

Has he brought in 2 four stars in one class before? Maybe Luka and Nunge? I feel like one of those was a 3. Anyways, next year we bring in 2 4 star recruits. What part of that makes you think we've hit some sort of ceiling?

Is Pryce Sandfort the highest rated recruit for Fran? If he isn't, he has to be near the top. Why would we think we've hit some invisible wall or cap when we have potentially the best recruit of Fran's time in Iowa City on deck?

He has Cooper Koch on deck for the season after, who is also a 4 and potentially still climbing.

I don't get how anyone gets to the conclusion that we've reached some attainable height that we can't break through when we have some of the best players we've ever had in the fold.

Someone else can explain that to me but much like these last 5 years were better than the previous 5 years at Iowa, I expect the next 5 to be Fran's best teams.
 
InGoodCo said:
I don't get why everyone here is stating that Fran has peaked. Like, where are you getting that from? What brings you to that stance?

At what point in Fran's tenure at Iowa did he have 2 4 stars on deck with Pryce Sandfort and Ladji Dembele?

Has he brought in 2 four stars in one class before? Maybe Luka and Nunge? I feel like one of those was a 3. Anyways, next year we bring in 2 4 star recruits. What part of that makes you think we've hit some sort of ceiling?

Is Pryce Sandfort the highest rated recruit for Fran? If he isn't, he has to be near the top. Why would we think we've hit some invisible wall or cap when we have potentially the best recruit of Fran's time in Iowa City on deck?

He has Cooper Koch on deck for the season after, who is also a 4 and potentially still climbing.

I don't get how anyone gets to the conclusion that we've reached some attainable height that we can't break through when we have some of the best players we've ever had in the fold.

Someone else can explain that to me but much like these last 5 years were better than the previous 5 years at Iowa, I expect the next 5 to be Fran's best teams.
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This is a pretty solid take. When Fran first joined Iowa, the knock was that he could only recruit and land legacy players and Iowa kids. Then he brought in Tyler Cook, Garza, Nunge, Perkins, among others, while still keeping a solid hold on instate talent. Next year's class looks to be one of Fran's best, with a mix of Iowa kids and kids with no ties to Iowa.

While the tourney results are of course not what anyone, including Fran, want, the regular season and conference tourney results have been good and the trendline is positive. Given the talent Fran has in the pipeline, along with a more organized NIL front, it seems more likely than not that Fran will continue his solid, regular season success and break through in the tourney soon.

BTW, as a secondary Creighton fan, I can convey that the criticisms and discussions concerning Greg McDermott were almost exactly the same as we have for Fran now. Good coach, solid resume, built up several smaller programs, but can't get past the first weekend in the tourney. Then he did, and then he brought in a Top 10 class. You don't fire guys like McDermott or Fran at schools like Iowa and Creighton. Not smart.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
This is a pretty solid take. When Fran first joined Iowa, the knock was that he could only recruit and land legacy players and Iowa kids. Then he brought in Tyler Cook, Garza, Nunge, Perkins, among others, while still keeping a solid hold on instate talent. Next year's class looks to be one of Fran's best, with a mix of Iowa kids and kids with no ties to Iowa.

While the tourney results are of course not what anyone, including Fran, want, the regular season and conference tourney results have been good and the trendline is positive. Given the talent Fran has in the pipeline, along with a more organized NIL front, it seems more likely than not that Fran will continue his solid, regular season success and break through in the tourney soon.

BTW, as a secondary Creighton fan, I can convey that the criticisms and discussions concerning Greg McDermott were almost exactly the same as we have for Fran now. Good coach, solid resume, built up several smaller programs, but can't get past the first weekend in the tourney. Then he did, and then he brought in a Top 10 class. You don't fire guys like McDermott or Fran at schools like Iowa and Creighton. Not smart.
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McDermott going to be in the running for ND too IMO - I too am a secondary Creighton fan (love and hate them sometimes depending on the year, more of a proximity thing and all of my friends are CU fans), go to several games a year living in Council Bluffs.
 
InGoodCo said:
I don't get why everyone here is stating that Fran has peaked. Like, where are you getting that from? What brings you to that stance?

At what point in Fran's tenure at Iowa did he have 2 4 stars on deck with Pryce Sandfort and Ladji Dembele?

Has he brought in 2 four stars in one class before? Maybe Luka and Nunge? I feel like one of those was a 3. Anyways, next year we bring in 2 4 star recruits. What part of that makes you think we've hit some sort of ceiling?

Is Pryce Sandfort the highest rated recruit for Fran? If he isn't, he has to be near the top. Why would we think we've hit some invisible wall or cap when we have potentially the best recruit of Fran's time in Iowa City on deck?

He has Cooper Koch on deck for the season after, who is also a 4 and potentially still climbing.

I don't get how anyone gets to the conclusion that we've reached some attainable height that we can't break through when we have some of the best players we've ever had in the fold.

Someone else can explain that to me but much like these last 5 years were better than the previous 5 years at Iowa, I expect the next 5 to be Fran's best teams.
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Fran has had some 4 star guys. I think Jok may have been. Joe W and Tyler Cook I'm pretty sure were. But I agree he's still recruiting well. Point guard position is still his white whale of sorts. Was kinda hoping Bowen would be that and maybe he still can be. Just so early to tell we haven't seen much of him yet.

His ability to land his top priority guys in the portal is a fair criticism. That has a lot to do with NIL and I bet as Iowa gets more competitive with that. It's just so far it hasn't gone our way yet.
 
If you break Fran's tenure out to quarters -

1st Q was not great, took over a mess, got things stable
2nd Q was a step in the right direction, the start of producing all conference caliber players. Getting back to the dance
3rd Q, now we're talking - All Americans, top 5 seeds, making the dance with regularity, NBA players
4th Q is still on tap and nothing in the previous 3 Quarters makes me believe we are on tap to take a step back....imo, the program has slowly ascended and has taken, albeit small, steps forward of progress and nothing looking down the pipeline indicates we should be expecting to come back to the pack.
 
win or lose, Fran isn't going anywhere, he'll coach until his 3rd son is done playing at Iowa.

We got Pearl Bruce, no problem............................I hope
 
InGoodCo said:
McDermott going to be in the running for ND too IMO - I too am a secondary Creighton fan (love and hate them sometimes depending on the year, more of a proximity thing and all of my friends are CU fans), go to several games a year living in Council Bluffs.
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Creighton games are a blast. My co-worker in the next door office has a daughter and SIL living in Papillon and the SIL is a big Creighton fan. Co-worker started going to some games and said how fun it was, so I went with them to the St Johns and Villanova games last year. Absolute riot, it's a great venue, loud fans, and most of em hate the Huskers. My kind of deal. The Big East also being a basketball only conference they really get up and boogie.

This year outside of Iowa my dawgs are Creighton and Xavier (Nunge).
 
InGoodCo said:
If you break Fran's tenure out to quarters -

1st Q was not great, took over a mess, got things stable
2nd Q was a step in the right direction, the start of producing all conference caliber players. Getting back to the dance
3rd Q, now we're talking - All Americans, top 5 seeds, making the dance with regularity, NBA players
4th Q is still on tap and nothing in the previous 3 Quarters makes me believe we are on tap to take a step back....imo, the program has slowly ascended and has taken, albeit small, steps forward of progress and nothing looking down the pipeline indicates we should be expecting to come back to the pack.
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But, but!!! Sweet 16!!

But, but!!! Mr Tom!!!
 
Fryowa said:
Creighton games are a blast. My co-worker in the next door office has a daughter and SIL living in Papillon and the SIL is a big Creighton fan. Co-worker started going to some games and said how fun it was, so I went with them to the St Johns and Villanova games last year. Absolute riot, it's a great venue, loud fans, and most of em hate the Huskers. My kind of deal. The Big East also being a basketball only conference they really get up and boogie.

This year outside of Iowa my dawgs are Creighton and Xavier (Nunge).
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Same, I will keep an eye on WV as well. It's weird how I can't stand that Moss and CJF transferred to KS and KY but find myself cheering for Nunge and Joe T - just totally different circumstances.
 
InGoodCo said:
If you break Fran's tenure out to quarters -

1st Q was not great, took over a mess, got things stable
2nd Q was a step in the right direction, the start of producing all conference caliber players. Getting back to the dance
3rd Q, now we're talking - All Americans, top 5 seeds, making the dance with regularity, NBA players
4th Q is still on tap and nothing in the previous 3 Quarters makes me believe we are on tap to take a step back....imo, the program has slowly ascended and has taken, albeit small, steps forward of progress and nothing looking down the pipeline indicates we should be expecting to come back to the pack.
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I agree with this analysis and trendline, but its hard for me to look at the squad next season (assuming Kris goes, and he will) and think this team won't take a step back for a season. Absent a big addition in the portal in the post, I think we will be too young and raw in the front court to be in the top half of the conference. Hope I am wrong. But even if we take a step back for a year, the incoming talent is really good and should set Iowa up for the next several years.
 
Recruiting: Fran does pretty good job but look at ISU's recruits the last two years. I think they have them rated as a top 5 group this year.
 
InGoodCo said:
I don't get why everyone here is stating that Fran has peaked. Like, where are you getting that from? What brings you to that stance?

At what point in Fran's tenure at Iowa did he have 2 4 stars on deck with Pryce Sandfort and Ladji Dembele?

Has he brought in 2 four stars in one class before? Maybe Luka and Nunge? I feel like one of those was a 3. Anyways, next year we bring in 2 4 star recruits. What part of that makes you think we've hit some sort of ceiling?

Is Pryce Sandfort the highest rated recruit for Fran? If he isn't, he has to be near the top. Why would we think we've hit some invisible wall or cap when we have potentially the best recruit of Fran's time in Iowa City on deck?

He has Cooper Koch on deck for the season after, who is also a 4 and potentially still climbing.

I don't get how anyone gets to the conclusion that we've reached some attainable height that we can't break through when we have some of the best players we've ever had in the fold.

Someone else can explain that to me but much like these last 5 years were better than the previous 5 years at Iowa, I expect the next 5 to be Fran's best teams.
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Is is possible? Sure is. Could even still happen this NCAA tournament.

I come from the camp of educated guess based on body of work. Fran's resume says he is a rebuilder of programs.....but not exactly a championship producer or a coach with his system that takes his teams far in the NCAAs. He could not it with Garza....he could do it with KM last year.

As long as Fran is the coach (because he is not going anywhere unless he wants to) only thing we can do is support him and hope that the breaks through. Not holding my breath though.

Of course, what this is year 13.......I guess maybe if you keep kicking the tire for another few years....eventually a Sweet 16 could fall out of it.
 
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NorthKCHawk said:
I agree with this analysis and trendline, but its hard for me to look at the squad next season (assuming Kris goes, and he will) and think this team won't take a step back for a season. Absent a big addition in the portal in the post, I think we will be too young and raw in the front court to be in the top half of the conference. Hope I am wrong. But even if we take a step back for a year, the incoming talent is really good and should set Iowa up for the next several years.
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I think Rebraca is a huge loss and is an understating reason Iowa has been able to maintain this year. I feel like Iowa will have much more success in the portal this year. I think they get 2 bigs for sure. I blame NIL last season and Iowa not having that in place. Fran has said as much on podcasts that he didn't have the $$ to pay guys last year and that's what the kids want and so Iowa needs to play ball. Heard him say exactly like that in at least 3 or 4 interviews last summer.

Iowa is considered an exciting program to play for. Iowa has 3 Wooden award finalist the last 3 years and they are all different players. Iowa scores and has recent NBA wins, they have a competitive NIL and they are a program eligible for it's 5th straight NCAA.

Iowa sits in a very good spot coming into this offseason, winning results, player development to the NBA and a lot of playing time available in the post.

All that said, I think Tony Perkins could have a monster Sr. Season. A lot of people don't realize this, but Tony has only scored over 20 points 5 times in his career and all 5 of those games have been since Jan 15th. That's what you want - your best players excelling towards the end of the season. Iowa will play around him next year and he will be much more the man.

Iowa brings back Patrick McCaffery. A scoring 3/4 who averaged double digits most of this year before taking his pause. Pat could have a big year next year and be much more consistent.

Iowa brings back Peyton Sandfort, who absolutely scorched it the 2nd half of the year and has to be considered to be one of the more electric shooters in the country coming into next season.

We lose a lot, but we bring a lot back as well and if I know anything, I know Fran will compete to be in the top half of the conference like he's done in 10 out of the last 11 seasons.
 
BILLYBOBSTEXAS said:
Recruiting: Fran does pretty good job but look at ISU's recruits the last two years. I think they have them rated as a top 5 group this year.
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Iowa has been losing the recruiting battle to ISU for as long as I can remember, yet somehow we're 4-1 against them the last 5. Recruiting rankings matter and I get they are having a lot of success, but let's let it play out. I think everyone thought they would be ruling the state when they signed Xavier Foster and Iowa missed out. Things don't always go the way people see them going, in fact, it's often times the opposite in sports.
 
InGoodCo said:
Iowa has been losing the recruiting battle to ISU for as long as I can remember, yet somehow we're 4-1 against them the last 5. Recruiting rankings matter and I get they are having a lot of success, but let's let it play out. I think everyone thought they would be ruling the state when they signed Xavier Foster and Iowa missed out. Things don't always go the way people see them going, in fact, it's often times the opposite in sports.
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Its hard to define what losing the recruiting battle means in this context. If you want to measure by stars and ratings, ISU has that part won. Much like KF, however, Fran is very good at finding next tier down guys that he can develop and fit his system.

Other than Foster, I don't remember us losing too many head to head battles for players we really wanted, and we clearly dodged a bullet on that one.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
Its hard to define what losing the recruiting battle means in this context. If you want to measure by stars and ratings, ISU has that part won. Much like KF, however, Fran is very good at finding next tier down guys that he can develop and fit his system.

Other than Foster, I don't remember us losing too many head to head battles for players we really wanted, and we clearly dodged a bullet on that one.
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That definitely came out wrong, I didn't mean head to head. In general, over the last decade, ISU has recruited a level above where Fran has and it appears they have some monster classes coming in. All I was saying is that, it doesn't always work out as planned or how we see it.

You wouldn't have convinced a soul on this board back when Iowa missed on Foster and DJ Carton that Iowa was going to be successful despite that. Those guys were going on to be rock star tournament darlings and Iowa was left at home with stupid Connor McCaffery who shouldn't even be playing D1 basketball and couple of fall back legacy recruits and some center that was too slow to make an impact.

Instead, Iowa has been dance eligible ever since, XF and DJC went to multiple schools and neither has played a minute in the NCAA tournament.

Things just rarely go the way we think they will or what they look like on the surface is all I am saying.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
Its hard to define what losing the recruiting battle means in this context. If you want to measure by stars and ratings, ISU has that part won. Much like KF, however, Fran is very good at finding next tier down guys that he can develop and fit his system.

Other than Foster, I don't remember us losing too many head to head battles for players we really wanted, and we clearly dodged a bullet on that one.
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No freaking doubt. I guess he's at SMU riding the bench for now. Wonder if he'll amount to much.

The Omaha kid will be interesting. If he's a one and done kid or not. Why weren't we really in on him anyway?
 
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