So let's get this out of the way early....
- Thread starter hawkeye12345
- Start date
Fryowa
Administrator
As it should be.
guffus
Well-Known Member
I am not sure this is an argument for or against Fran and his coaching staff. Yes IF Iowa beats Neb, then Iowa is in better shape than they are in after what Iowa actually did. Iowa did not actually beat Neb, which is a big reason this thread exists.
I took a second to think about this.... I think you're absolutely right.
Yeah maybe... It'd have been borderline. Having lost to them OSU and Wisky bottom 3rd teams of the league it's hard to know what Iowa is frankly. They can beat Indiana on the road and lose to Nebraska 5 days later at home. And Eastern IL at home. There's just a whole lot of inbetween there obviously.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
Obvious troll could have been detected a few times during the OP -
1. he states off the bat that he thinks it's "not going to be pretty" getting beat by a former assistant who has a way more athletic team.
2. he states ""we're" nowhere near getting back to legit contention for tournament runs, B1G championships"
Getting back? To when? Even in Iowa's best years, they were not in legit contention for tournament runs and B1G championships. I wouldn't call a program that won it's last 2 conference championships in 1970 (53 years) and 1979 (44 years ago) to ever be in these waters. Can't really get back to something we've never had and the chances of this tool being old enough to remember any of this is subject.
3. He then lists this years finish as 6th, when we literally were the 5 seed last week. He then lists the highest every team could have placed dependent on ties.
For example 2 years ago we finished 3rd - he lists 4th
3 years ago we finished 5th - he lists 5th - got that one right
4 years ago we finished 6th - he lists 8th
5 years ago we finished 11th - he lists 13th - lol
6 years ago we finished 5th - he lists 6th
7 years ago we finished 3rd - he lists 7th - lol
8 years ago we finish 3rd - he sprinkled in another actual fact for good measure
1. he states off the bat that he thinks it's "not going to be pretty" getting beat by a former assistant who has a way more athletic team.
2. he states ""we're" nowhere near getting back to legit contention for tournament runs, B1G championships"
Getting back? To when? Even in Iowa's best years, they were not in legit contention for tournament runs and B1G championships. I wouldn't call a program that won it's last 2 conference championships in 1970 (53 years) and 1979 (44 years ago) to ever be in these waters. Can't really get back to something we've never had and the chances of this tool being old enough to remember any of this is subject.
3. He then lists this years finish as 6th, when we literally were the 5 seed last week. He then lists the highest every team could have placed dependent on ties.
For example 2 years ago we finished 3rd - he lists 4th
3 years ago we finished 5th - he lists 5th - got that one right
4 years ago we finished 6th - he lists 8th
5 years ago we finished 11th - he lists 13th - lol
6 years ago we finished 5th - he lists 6th
7 years ago we finished 3rd - he lists 7th - lol
8 years ago we finish 3rd - he sprinkled in another actual fact for good measure
1980HAWKFAN
Well-Known Member
I think Fran could really up Iowa’s chances if he focused on 2 areas. For the love of God please find us a really good point guard. After you accomplish that, find an assistant you can help this team play defense. I won’t be surprised if some player on Auburn has a career night on us and sends us home.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Iowa could advance to the Championship game and lose, and people will still be calling for his head.
Northside Hawk
Well-Known Member
Mostly agree. The type of coach some are asking for, recruiting the players they ask for, will stay here four years, tops.
InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
They are incredibly inconsistent but the only thing we have going for us is that 95% of college basketball, we have a 1 seed with 7 losses this season. Our opponent lost 9 of it's last 13. Indiana is 21-11 and a 4 seed. TX is an 8 loss 2 seed. There isn't even a dominate #1. College basketball in general this season has been incredibly hard to predict as I assume this tournament will be as well.
Fryowa
Administrator
I didn't read the OP other than seeing this doosher wanted Fran gone, but now checking into it, @InGoodCo is correct. @hawkeye12345 , either fix your work or you get a ban. You weren't just a little off, or off when considering ties, or maybe off by one year the whole way down because you looked at it wrong and got a whole year off.
If you made an honest mistake you'd have just as many showing better finishes than actual as worse finishes.
Fix your shit or be gone. I'm not locking this thread or deleting it because I want people to be able to make fun of you for it.
If you made an honest mistake you'd have just as many showing better finishes than actual as worse finishes.
Fix your shit or be gone. I'm not locking this thread or deleting it because I want people to be able to make fun of you for it.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
My stance has not changed on Fran.
I would not fire a guy who more or less has had Iowa in the middle of the Big Ten....and has Iowa going to the NCAA tournament (what 5 years and counting).
That said, I think we have seen the best Fran has to offer. I think the best case in all likelihood is that he would leave for another job. This is on the reasonable assumption that his team gets humbled yet again this week. I don't think he is leaving however. So, I will root hard for him to succeed and progress the program.
Although IF he gets a Sweet 16 this tournament...no question it will subside the fire talk or wishing (secretly) for him to go....whatever way that can be made happen.
I do think we would have people interested in the job. I don't think it would be doomsday. The Iowa program would be in better shape than when Fran inherited it.
Personally, I think getting another pressing and uptempo coach would be just fine. But, we also need a guy is committed to teaching half court defense.....and I also think a guy who can recruit a balanced roster.
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HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Better than Mr. Davis.....lol. At best a push and I would not even go there. When Fran makes an Elite 8 or better, then we will talk.
Again, before we say well Mr. Davis did it with George's players......someone had to coach them and those players said they could not have done it without Tom.
And, and.....Mr. Davis had Boston College in an Elite 8....so he showed he could do it at a place other than Iowa.
Fran.....best finish anywhere a 2nd round loss.
Bonus.....Mr. Davis and Keno took a dead Drake program and made it into a winner. Arguably, they started the trend to making Drake more than just a punching bag....and Devries is doing quite well there at the moment.
Both Mr. Davis and Fran have shown they can rebuild programs.
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HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
If he made it to the Title Game, that would be worth another 5 years to me....at minimum.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
These are very good points.....I only hope they bend in our favor.
If the Tournament Gods would like to throw us bone.....hey we would take it. I'm quite sure Fran would.
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HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
On a side note, because I do get crap for my takes on Fran.
I don't hate Fran. I think what Fran did was admirable for taking over a program of Nuclear Winter from Alfraud and Lackluster. Arguably, Fran had the biggest rebuilding job in the modern era of IA basketball coaches. To me, that is his biggest accomplishment....those first few years building the program back into NCAA contender.
I don't think Fran is horrible at his job. We do have Big Ten rosters (however incomplete they may be at the guard/post spots), we are usually middle of the pack, we have been making it into the NCAAs, offensively we do put points up on the board.
I do think though that his glaring limitations will only take us so far.....as has happened over the 13 years. I do fear that him being stubborn and stuck in his ways keeps a ceiling on the program. The half court defense is a joke and former players even saying they hardly practice half-court defense. Duct-Tape and 3 pointers will only take you so far. You have to have balance.....be good on half-court offense, be good on half-court defense, and be good on transition offense and defense.
I agree with ingoodco above.....the tourney field is up and down. Perhaps, maybe, this year, Fran's boys can slip through with some upsets in our draw path....and we have a hot weekend shooting the ball to make up for our glaring weaknesses. I just wish we did not have to have so many things go right to make up for our horrid defense and at times very poor guard play.....and then seeing Fran fly off the handle only to only get us down more on the scoreboard with his Ts.
I don't hate Fran. I think what Fran did was admirable for taking over a program of Nuclear Winter from Alfraud and Lackluster. Arguably, Fran had the biggest rebuilding job in the modern era of IA basketball coaches. To me, that is his biggest accomplishment....those first few years building the program back into NCAA contender.
I don't think Fran is horrible at his job. We do have Big Ten rosters (however incomplete they may be at the guard/post spots), we are usually middle of the pack, we have been making it into the NCAAs, offensively we do put points up on the board.
I do think though that his glaring limitations will only take us so far.....as has happened over the 13 years. I do fear that him being stubborn and stuck in his ways keeps a ceiling on the program. The half court defense is a joke and former players even saying they hardly practice half-court defense. Duct-Tape and 3 pointers will only take you so far. You have to have balance.....be good on half-court offense, be good on half-court defense, and be good on transition offense and defense.
I agree with ingoodco above.....the tourney field is up and down. Perhaps, maybe, this year, Fran's boys can slip through with some upsets in our draw path....and we have a hot weekend shooting the ball to make up for our glaring weaknesses. I just wish we did not have to have so many things go right to make up for our horrid defense and at times very poor guard play.....and then seeing Fran fly off the handle only to only get us down more on the scoreboard with his Ts.
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Fryowa
Administrator
Your cultishness for Mr Tom is hilarious. You look at one single aspect of a tournament game to measure a coach. Davis rode off Lute and Raveling’s recruits and had one better tournament year at the end of his tenure lol. Fran is a better recruiter, better by a LONG ways in the Big Ten, and a better coach. Do you dress up as Mr Tom for Halloween?
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
I forgot to add.....Mr. Davis had some bad luck as well:
-Minnesota Cheating Scandal.....Iowa should have been the regular season Big Ten Champions that Year.
-Chris Street's death. That team could have been an Elite 8/Final Four team....they gave Duke everything and more at their place early that year.
-Ray Thompson being declared academically ineligible by the stupid College President at the time. Right before the NCAAs.
I would also argue the Big Ten was more loaded in Tom's day compared to now. Tough Indiana, Purdue, Michigan St, Michigan, and Illinois teams.
I just don't think you can start putting Fran above Mr. Davis until he has a significant run (Elite 8 or better) in the NCAAs. Heck, he does not even have a Sweet 16 to his name anywhere. These are the metrics in college basketball you build your program for and what separates you from great, good, fair, and poor.
Hopefully this is the year it changes.
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smhawk
Well-Known Member
Okay guys. I like Fran and respect people for defending him. I am glad he came to Iowa and also respect some of the things he had accomplished.
But he has been at Iowa for 13 years. It has a been 23 years since Iowa has reached a sweet 16. One of the longest streaks among Power 5 conference teams. If you take a look at rankings from polls and average out who are the best schools all-time, you have Iowa at 27. You would think the 27th All-time college basketball team could make it to the sweet 16 once in 25 years.
I would give him one more season before finding any exit plan. Not because Fran isn't performing well, but because sometimes its time for a change. If you are not coming close to reaching a milestone that has been missed for two decades, then all the other accomplishments matter much less.
Being an outstanding regular season team makes most the season exciting but often ends with disappointment. You shouldn't have a forever job coaching college basketball at a P5 college without coming up with noteworthy wins in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully Fran figures out what it takes to make this happen at Iowa, but he should make the decision himself to move on if he can't get that done in a couple years.
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But he has been at Iowa for 13 years. It has a been 23 years since Iowa has reached a sweet 16. One of the longest streaks among Power 5 conference teams. If you take a look at rankings from polls and average out who are the best schools all-time, you have Iowa at 27. You would think the 27th All-time college basketball team could make it to the sweet 16 once in 25 years.
I would give him one more season before finding any exit plan. Not because Fran isn't performing well, but because sometimes its time for a change. If you are not coming close to reaching a milestone that has been missed for two decades, then all the other accomplishments matter much less.
Being an outstanding regular season team makes most the season exciting but often ends with disappointment. You shouldn't have a forever job coaching college basketball at a P5 college without coming up with noteworthy wins in the NCAA tournament. Hopefully Fran figures out what it takes to make this happen at Iowa, but he should make the decision himself to move on if he can't get that done in a couple years.
AP Poll College Basketball Rankings: Greatest 25 Programs Of All-Time
AP Poll college basketball all-time rankings. Where do all the best programs and teams rank since the start of the poll?
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Longest Sweet 16 Droughts for Power 5 Schools
Can you name the Power 5 schools with the longest Sweet 16 droughts?
www.sporcle.com
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Fran Out? Really? Ha Ha Ha!
