Serious Leadership Questions

[DexterMorgan]

Ask yourself this question. Who are the stakeholders of the Iowa program? Those who support the program or the national media and others outside of the program?

I see what you're saying, but I'm worried about perception especially on the recruiting trail. The botched PR campaign has put a ton of pressure on the program. Ask yourself what happens next year if we don't do well on the field. It will be a ****storm.

we'll know in 4 days whether it had an effect on recruiting or not.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Ask yourself this question. Who are the stakeholders of the Iowa program? Those who support the program or the national media and others outside of the program?

I see what you're saying, but I'm worried about perception especially on the recruiting trail. The botched PR campaign has put a ton of pressure on the program. Ask yourself what happens next year if we don't do well on the field. It will be a ****storm.

OK,,, so you are saying that meaningless press conferences have a direct impact on wins and losses? But past performance, reputation of our coach with decision makers in the NFL and a long history of putting players in the NFL has much less impact.

You are a prime example of what I am talking about ---- reaction to mitigate those who do not matter ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You want to insure long-term success? Support the program. It's really that simple. If we continue to sell-out games and support the administration, coaches and players things will be fine.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

we'll know in 4 days whether it had an effect on recruiting or not.

And we will move on with the players that commit to being Hawkeyes. If anyone of our potential recruits is afraid to work hard then it's not going to work here in the first place. Better to find that out up front.

 

[tm3308]

And we will move on with the players that commit to being Hawkeyes. If anyone of our potential recruits is afraid to work hard then it's not going to work here in the first place. Better to find that out up front.

As I mentioned earlier, either in this thread or one of the others:

There's a difference between "being afraid to work hard", and being afraid of being put in the hospital by the workouts I'm asked to complete. That's not splitting hairs there, there is a mile of difference between the two. I'm certainly not afraid to work my a** off, but I'd sure as hell think twice if I thought the work I was being asked to do could put me in the hospital.

 

[ColoradoHAWKEYE]

Actually, that was an Oregon high school, not the U of O.

meah, I stand corrected on the Football D1 then. I should have known better to follow up and look that story over closer before referencing it. Thanks for update.

 

[DexterMorgan]

As I mentioned earlier, either in this thread or one of the others:

There's a difference between "being afraid to work hard", and being afraid of being put in the hospital by the workouts I'm asked to complete. That's not splitting hairs there, there is a mile of difference between the two. I'm certainly not afraid to work my a** off, but I'd sure as hell think twice if I thought the work I was being asked to do could put me in the hospital.

that looks like it's a quote from me but it's not.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

As I mentioned earlier, either in this thread or one of the others:

There's a difference between "being afraid to work hard", and being afraid of being put in the hospital by the workouts I'm asked to complete. That's not splitting hairs there, there is a mile of difference between the two. I'm certainly not afraid to work my a** off, but I'd sure as hell think twice if I thought the work I was being asked to do could put me in the hospital.

So tell me about working out and when you know it's too hard or too much?

Have you had this condition before? I have so I know exactly that I didn't know until later when I urinated for the first time. I sought medical attention, was diagnosed with this but was not hospitalized. My doc told me to stop working out, rest and it would pass within a couple of days which it did. I did this same workout that caused this before and many times since but why this happened one time I still have no idea. I was not taking any supplements or anything else. My hydration was good and I never felt dehydrated during the workout. The workout took a grand total of 40 minutes to produce this condition.

 

[denverhawkfan]

Would Kirk have came back right away if his son was one of the football players in the hospital? IMO this is where he looks extremely bad. He is supposed to look out for these guys well beings as if they each were his own son. At least that's how I'm picturing the sales pitch in the recruits living room when trying to convince mom and dad their kids will be in good hands at the UI.

 

[HAWKEYEPIERCE]

OK,,, so you are saying that meaningless press conferences have a direct impact on wins and losses? But past performance, reputation of our coach with decision makers in the NFL and a long history of putting players in the NFL has much less impact.

You are a prime example of what I am talking about ---- reaction to mitigate those who do not matter ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You want to insure long-term success? Support the program. It's really that simple. If we continue to sell-out games and support the administration, coaches and players things will be fine.

What's meaningless about a press conference after 13 players have been admitted to the hospital? I'm a season ticket holder that will continue to support the team, but that doesn't mean I can't expect more from them.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

Would Kirk have came back right away if his son was one of the football players in the hospital? IMO this is where he looks extremely bad. He is supposed to look out for these guys well beings as if they each were his own son. At least that's how I'm picturing the sales pitch in the recruits living room when trying to convince mom and dad their kids will be in good hands at the UI.

That is a very good point but he and his staff were in contact with the parents as noted by Mr. Poggi's statements.

The players were in the best possible hands at the UI hospitals and KF is not a medical professional. He is also not a parent so is he permitted to be involved in the discussions with doctors on diagnosis, etc. ?? How does that work?

Was KF told this was not serious early on and would pass but to be on the safe side the players would be kept for a period of time for observation? Has the program encountered this condition before and it was not serious for a player or two?

 

[tm3308]

So tell me about working out and when you know it's too hard or too much?

Have you had this condition before? I have so I know exactly that I didn't know until later when I urinated for the first time. I sought medical attention, was diagnosed with this but was not hospitalized. My doc told me to stop working out, rest and it would pass within a couple of days which it did. I did this same workout that caused this before and many times since but why this happened one time I still have no idea. I was not taking any supplements or anything else. My hydration was good and I never felt dehydrated during the workout. The workout took a grand total of 40 minutes to produce this condition.

No, I've not had this condition. And I'd bet that the majority of potential recruits haven't, either. So they're not going to know anything more than "13 players in hospital following workout", which would be enough to give me serious doubts if I were in their shoes. That's hardly a mark against their character or work ethic.

I'm not a PT major or anything like that. But I do know that having 13 players in the hospital following a workout is a big deal, particularly if the workout was the only factor to blame for it. I'm not saying I know how to tell when it's too much. But if it were all because of the workout, then it's a risk that you can't afford to take in the future, and you've got to tone it down. If other factors contributed to/exacerbated things, then they need to find other ways prevent this from happening again.

And the time spent working out is irrelevant. Poggi did his 100 squats in 17 minutes. It's not about the time, it's about the amount of strain put on your muscles.

 

[HaydensHawk]

The workout consisted of more than just the 100 squats.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

What's meaningless about a press conference after 13 players have been admitted to the hospital? I'm a season ticket holder that will continue to support the team, but that doesn't mean I can't expect more from them.

It's meaningless at this point because what can they really say that was not released in the first press release? There was a set of work out sessions and 13 players have been admitted to the hospital. Privacy laws regarding health come into play in discussing health and possible litigation (however ridiculous) severely limit what can be said so what else do they say?

The only thing that matters is the players returning to good health. A press conference does not do anything to aid this.

 

[skinnykilmer17]

How does leadership and PR have anything to do with the recovery of the players who have been hospitalized ?

Holding a press conference would have facilitated the expedient recovery of our players?

What kind of credentials does Jane Meyer have to evaluate a football conditioning regimen?

How many media personalities and writers are making a buck off of this story and thus have a vested interest in leeching off of the misfortune of others?

1. . Did I ever link the player's health with a press conference?

2. Jane Meyer is the Associate Athletic Director who oversees the training staff, 13 players are hospitalized resulting from a workout or workouts that may or may not have been above and beyond the norm (see former Hawkeye football player Derek Pagel's quote in today's Des Moines Register). Her title and position may be meaningless, especially to those inside the football program, but if an investigation doesn't begin with that position or at least involve that position then that position and the university's claim to want to correct what happened is a joke. Shouldn't the bearer of that position at least merit some responsibilities in this case?

This is the thing. The athletic department suffered a black-eye in the way they handled the Pierre Pierce case. Not a whole lot was learned as evidenced in how the athletic department handled the Everson/Satterfied case. The result? Our reputation and credibility suffers and it breeds suspicion that the university goes into damage control and really isn't involved in the finding the facts. Evidence of this? David Skiles, Iowa Board of Regents president, was quoted in the Des Moines Register today, "I think UIHC and the doctors take their medical oaths very seriously and they weren't involved in any of the training. I have no reason to think they won't be able to offer an independent opinion as to what happened."

So not only do the national media possibly not trust the athletic department to explain what has transpired inside the athletic department, apparently neither does the president of the Iowa Board of Regents.

Why could this be if true? Could it be that the the coach, i.e. the leader of the football program, didn't change his travel plans to address the media to publicly convey concern and announce a thorough investigation? And waiting 4 days to make a statement is inexcusable. Who doesn't get that? Remaining silent for 4 days after your program has "accomplished" something unprecedented in the history of college football is leadership? And then there is the actual Director of the Athletic Program who has even been more silent. I am sorry but something is wrong.

3. Undoubtedly some in the media are using this to further their own careers but there are some I am sure who are genuinely concerned and don't understand what in the world is going on here. They are shocked by the sheer number of players. And our leader's silence combined with our athletic director's silence combined with none of the training staff being made available to the media combined with the history of this athletic department not always being the most forthcoming only raises more questions and suspicions. That is the simple truth. Accept it or not.

I can't believe I am using five-term Governor Terry Brandstad to emphasize my point but even he said officials should ensure a full and complete explanation of what happened is shared with the public about the players. Just a gentle reminder to the athletic department and others that transparency and the truth does matter. It matters people. It matters here and across the nation.

 

[kicker22]

Not making light of the situation and how Kirk should or shouldn't have handled things, but I'd be willing to bet he knows more about football then he knows about medicine and the doctors wouldn't do anything differently if he'd of returned right away or needed to consult with Kirk to see how he'd treat them.

Only knowing what I've read and what has been released I'm going to go out on a limb and say without a doubt that Kirk and the staff have more insight than the media, us as posters, and anyone following the story. I'm sure that he's on top of this and had had more than enough information ot weigh his decision whether to return immediately or return when he did.

We don't even know who the athletes are yet were sure it's being handled poorly or that things are trying to be covered up. Just too bad people can't shut up and stop speculating and wait to see how it all plays out before criticizing how its handled and calling for heads and resignations.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

No, I've not had this condition. And I'd bet that the majority of potential recruits haven't, either. So they're not going to know anything more than "13 players in hospital following workout", which would be enough to give me serious doubts if I were in their shoes. That's hardly a mark against their character or work ethic.

I'm not a PT major or anything like that. But I do know that having 13 players in the hospital following a workout is a big deal, particularly if the workout was the only factor to blame for it. I'm not saying I know how to tell when it's too much. But if it were all because of the workout, then it's a risk that you can't afford to take in the future, and you've got to tone it down. If other factors contributed to/exacerbated things, then they need to find other ways prevent this from happening again.

And the time spent working out is irrelevant. Poggi did his 100 squats in 17 minutes. It's not about the time, it's about the amount of strain put on your muscles.

I'm not questioning player work ethics. What i am trying to say is there are risks in all aspects of life, some of which we do not have complete control like we think we do.

Any time you exercise and there is exertion you have a potential for something to happen. I'm not sure it is truly possible to adaquately insure that no limits are pushed or exceeded because you have to define limits and those limits can vary by person and even vary daily for a person. Many mitigating factors could possibly come into play which may not be known or detectable until it's too late.

Within the 'toning it down' concept. How do you monitor and know when a player is doing too much within a workout even if you have backed off duration, %'s, etc. What if others players are not able to get in the work needed for proper game conditioning because they need more?

It gets to the point that you accept and acknowledge risks involved or you simply decide to shut it completely down.

 

[SpecialKHawk]

1. . Did I ever link the player's health with a press conference?

2. Jane Meyer is the Associate Athletic Director who oversees the training staff, 13 players are hospitalized resulting from a workout or workouts that may or may not have been above and beyond the norm (see former Hawkeye football player Derek Pagel's quote in today's Des Moines Register). Her title and position may be meaningless, especially to those inside the football program, but if an investigation doesn't begin with that position or at least involve that position then that position and the university's claim to want to correct what happened is a joke. Shouldn't the bearer of that position at least merit some responsibilities in this case?

This is the thing. The athletic department suffered a black-eye in the way they handled the Pierre Pierce case. Not a whole lot was learned as evidenced in how the athletic department handled the Everson/Satterfied case. The result? Our reputation and credibility suffers and it breeds suspicion that the university goes into damage control and really isn't involved in the finding the facts. Evidence of this? David Skiles, Iowa Board of Regents president, was quoted in the Des Moines Register today, "I think UIHC and the doctors take their medical oaths very seriously and they weren't involved in any of the training. I have no reason to think they won't be able to offer an independent opinion as to what happened."

So not only do the national media possibly not trust the athletic department to explain what has transpired inside the athletic department, apparently neither does the president of the Iowa Board of Regents.

Why could this be if true? Could it be that the the coach, i.e. the leader of the football program, didn't change his travel plans to address the media to publicly convey concern and announce a thorough investigation? And waiting 4 days to make a statement is inexcusable. Who doesn't get that? Remaining silent for 4 days after your program has "accomplished" something unprecedented in the history of college football is leadership? And then there is the actual Director of the Athletic Program who has even been more silent. I am sorry but something is wrong.

3. Undoubtedly some in the media are using this to further their own careers but there are some I am sure who are genuinely concerned and don't understand what in the world is going on here. They are shocked by the sheer number of players. And our leader's silence combined with our athletic director's silence combined with none of the training staff being made available to the media combined with the history of this athletic department not always being the most forthcoming only raises more questions and suspicions. That is the simple truth. Accept it or not.

I can't believe I am using five-term Governor Terry Brandstad to emphasize my point but even he said officials should ensure a full and complete explanation of what happened is shared with the public about the players. Just a gentle reminder to the athletic department and others that transparency and the truth does matter. It matters people. It matters here and across the nation.

Answer my fundamental question? Who benefits from the information from a press conference on Wednesday?

Answer these questions based on this Wednesday press conference with the Athletic Department officials you seemingly do not trust.....

- What caused this ?
- Who is responsible for this outcome ?
- What are the immediate actions that will be taken today ?
- How will you help the players regain their health so they can return school and the program ?

 

[ColoradoHAWKEYE]

So not only do the national media possibly not trust the athletic department to explain what has transpired inside the athletic department, apparently neither does the president of the Iowa Board of Regents.

Why could this be if true? Could it be that the the coach, i.e. the leader of the football program, didn't change his travel plans to address the media to publicly convey concern and announce a thorough investigation? And waiting 4 days to make a statement is inexcusable. Who doesn't get that? Remaining silent for 4 days after your program has "accomplished" something unprecedented in the history of college football is leadership? And then there is the actual Director of the Athletic Program who has even been more silent. I am sorry but something is wrong.

3. Undoubtedly some in the media are using this to further their own careers but there are some I am sure who are genuinely concerned and don't understand what in the world is going on here. They are shocked by the sheer number of players. And our leader's silence combined with our athletic director's silence combined with none of the training staff being made available to the media combined with the history of this athletic department not always being the most forthcoming only raises more questions and suspicions. That is the simple truth. Accept it or not.

I can't believe I am using five-term Governor Terry Brandstad to emphasize my point but even he said officials should ensure a full and complete explanation of what happened is shared with the public about the players. Just a gentle reminder to the athletic department and others that transparency and the truth does matter. It matters people. It matters here and across the nation.

Huh? and WHAT? Have you even taken a logic class before, or used any rationality in real life? If a=b and b does not=c, how can you conclude that a=c? I believe you are one to jump to conclusions without knowing more than a sprinkle of facts. Slow down on your fingering.

 

[skinnykilmer17]

Answer my fundamental question? Who benefits from the information from a press conference on Wednesday?

Answer these questions based on this Wednesday press conference with the Athletic Department officials you seemingly do not trust.....

- What caused this ?
- Who is responsible for this outcome ?
- What are the immediate actions that will be taken today ?
- How will you help the players regain their health so they can return school and the program ?

Who benefits?

1. Yes, not surprisingly the affected players have heard personally from their
coach via telephone but they would also hear their coach convey publicly his concern and attention to the situation. Wouldn't this in some way validate the effort these players have given to their school and football program. Because of this effort they find themselves in the hospital and at the center of a situation (and in the middle of a national story) they would undoubtedly prefer not to be in. Plus, I have seen many people imply or speculate that it must have been something those 13 players did that caused or contributed to this. Such as alcohol use, drug use, illegal supplements, playing one-on-one basketball between work-out sessions. Come on, really. Coach Ferentz could have dispelled those rumors. It is likely they are guilty of nothing more that working their buts off.

2. According to The Sporting News, some parents let Coach Ferentz have it for not getting to the hospital sooner. Apparently, some of the parents would have also benefited and appreciated Coach Ferentz's presence at the press conference since that obviously would have placed him back in Iowa City earlier in the week and in the presence of those parents. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Poggi for how he flew out here to immediately be by his son's side and how he handled himself at the press conference, but it appears not all of the parents share his feelings with everything that has transpired and how it has been handled.

3. Coach Ferentz benefits. Wouldn't you agree given the negative response nationally?

4. The football program itself and the University of Iowa in general.

You don't seem to understand. It is not about my feelings or my suspicions. I don't run a newspaper or website or magazine or TV station. I am not a parent of one of affected players. I am just trying to look at this objectively. And a lot of criticism of Coach Ferentz, Gary Barta and others is sadly warranted. Don't we expect better from them? They expect it from their players and other athletes on scholarship.

 

[ColoradoHAWKEYE]

Who benefits?

1. Yes, not surprisingly the affected players have heard personally from their
coach via telephone but they would also hear their coach convey publicly his concern and attention to the situation. Wouldn't this in some way validate the effort these players have given to their school and football program. Because of this effort they find themselves in the hospital and at the center of a situation (and in the middle of a national story) they would undoubtedly prefer not to be in. Plus, I have seen many people imply or speculate that it must have been something those 13 players did that caused or contributed to this. Such as alcohol use, drug use, illegal supplements, playing one-on-one basketball between work-out sessions. Come on, really. Coach Ferentz could have dispelled those rumors. It is likely they are guilty of nothing more that working their buts off.

2. According to The Sporting News, some parents let Coach Ferentz have it for not getting to the hospital sooner. Apparently, some of the parents would have also benefited and appreciated Coach Ferentz's presence at the press conference since that obviously would have placed him back in Iowa City earlier in the week and in the presence of those parents. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Poggi for how he flew out here to immediately be by his son's side and how he handled himself at the press conference, but it appears not all of the parents share his feelings with everything that has transpired and how it has been handled.

3. Coach Ferentz benefits. Wouldn't you agree given the negative response nationally?

4. The football program itself and the University of Iowa in general.

You don't seem to understand. It is not about my feelings or my suspicions. I don't run a newspaper or website or magazine or TV station. I am not a parent of one of affected players. I am just trying to look at this objectively. And a lot of criticism of Coach Ferentz, Gary Barta and others is sadly warranted. Don't we expect better from them? They expect it from their players and other athletes on scholarship.

Further, as I can certainly determine from your rants, you still do not make any rational sense whatsoever. You come of as being pretty full of yourself. Your "objectivity" seems to be pretty slanted. It was your thread, so I guess I'll move on and let you continue to postulate (that means to assume something to be true without valid merit or facts).