bcl20
Well-Known Member
Harbaugh? Meh, one example with a small sample size against a weak schedule doesn't mean much.
Scott Van Pelt takes small jab at KF
- Thread starter PeoriaHWKI
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Harbaugh? Meh, one example with a small sample size against a weak schedule doesn't mean much.
bcl20
Well-Known Member
How? I can see being a poor coach at a low level not being a good indicator of success at a higher level.
Yeah of course some guy winning a couple games a year is probably not going to succeed as an NFL head coach, but that what I am talking about. Ferentz isn't a poor coach. He is a good coach. Yeah he doesn't have a "great" record but he is not a poor coach. To say that someone else failed with a similar college coaching record has no effect on how the next person will do because they could have totally different personalities, totally different coaching styles that might fit better in the NFL than in college.
I have no idea why people think he would be a good NFL coach. He would be terrible, he wouldn't even last three years.
Ferentz's strength is developing players over their four or five years here. He's not known for his gameplans, on either side of the ball, in fact it's constantly mentioned how easy we are to scout. He's not known for great in game coaching or great clock management. What exactly does he do well that would translate to the NFL?
Ferentz's strength is developing players over their four or five years here. He's not known for his gameplans, on either side of the ball, in fact it's constantly mentioned how easy we are to scout. He's not known for great in game coaching or great clock management. What exactly does he do well that would translate to the NFL?
That's him. Hell, there aren't that many examples of college coaches working out at all so you'll have to live with the limited sample size.
My point wasn't that I think Kirk would be a great NFL HC but rather you can't guage potential success in the NFL by their coaching record in college. Some are too authoritarian to have success in the NFL (see: Saban), some are system coaches whose system won't work in the NFL (see: Spurrier), and some are just accustomed to having so much more talent than 95% of the teams they play against that going to the NFL and playing teams with equal or nearly equal talent becomes too much for them (see: Butch Davis).
I don't have any idea how good Ferentz would be in the NFL but he is an NFL style coach.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I think Pete Carroll is doing a pretty damn good job in Seattle. He's been given the chance to completely mold the Seahawks into his scheme. He's made more roster moves in 2 years than any other team in the NFL. Now he's finally starting to see those moves pay off. You can't be realistic and expect instant results at the same time. It's just not gonna happen.
The problem is most franchises hire a new coach and want instant results. Very few teams are willing to wait more than 2 years to see things turn around. However, very few teams have the kind of talent that can lead to instant results. The Seahawks needed some major renovations (and they still do if they want to continue the upward trend). I'd say Haley came into a Chiefs team that had quite a bit of talent. When some of those key players were injured this year it was just too much to overcome. Harbaugh coached at Stanford... he knew what kind of talent the 49ers had on their roster and he's taking advantage of it. He knew that he wouldn't need a Pro Bowl QB to turn things around if he has a top 5 caliber defense and running game. The 49ers had the pieces for those 2 things to be possible.
The problem is most franchises hire a new coach and want instant results. Very few teams are willing to wait more than 2 years to see things turn around. However, very few teams have the kind of talent that can lead to instant results. The Seahawks needed some major renovations (and they still do if they want to continue the upward trend). I'd say Haley came into a Chiefs team that had quite a bit of talent. When some of those key players were injured this year it was just too much to overcome. Harbaugh coached at Stanford... he knew what kind of talent the 49ers had on their roster and he's taking advantage of it. He knew that he wouldn't need a Pro Bowl QB to turn things around if he has a top 5 caliber defense and running game. The 49ers had the pieces for those 2 things to be possible.
You don't think this translates to the NFL? Scouting and finding players to fit your system and then developing those players is the most important part of a head coaches job in the NFL. Those are both areas where KF excels.
Then maybe he should be a GM. You don't have time to develop players in the NFL. Either they can play or you cut them. You don't get five years, you need guys who can play now.
MoseSchrute
Well-Known Member
Peterson: Addressing Iowa’s Ferentz and Parker; also Stoops | Hawk Central
Had to chuckle at this quote from back in '98:
"KIRK FERENTZ, assistant head coach-offense, Baltimore Ravens – The 43-year-old former Fry assistant has been a key cog in opening up the Ravens’ offense under Coach Ted Marchibroda. Ferentz has head coaching experience -three years at the University of Maine -as well as nine years as offensive line coach for the Hawkeyes. Ferentz said Monday he would be flattered to be considered."
Had to chuckle at this quote from back in '98:
"KIRK FERENTZ, assistant head coach-offense, Baltimore Ravens – The 43-year-old former Fry assistant has been a key cog in opening up the Ravens’ offense under Coach Ted Marchibroda. Ferentz has head coaching experience -three years at the University of Maine -as well as nine years as offensive line coach for the Hawkeyes. Ferentz said Monday he would be flattered to be considered."
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
I think if you look at your sarcasm detector youll see its broken.
Scotty Van Pelt does not know how the NFL insiders view KF,period. The NFL guys know that KF turns out NFL players from 2 star recruits,and wins a lot at Iowa considering the talent. They know he has an NFL background,and is respected by most NFL organizations who draft his players.
It is not all about w/l records when hiring a coach from the college ranks.
The NFL guys go beneath the surface and really dig into a coaches resume,unlike guys like SVP. Not his job,and his career is not hanging on the hire,so why should he bother to do any homework?
It is not all about w/l records when hiring a coach from the college ranks.
The NFL guys go beneath the surface and really dig into a coaches resume,unlike guys like SVP. Not his job,and his career is not hanging on the hire,so why should he bother to do any homework?
imported_ankle23
Well-Known Member
I saw Pete Carroll interviewed towards the tail end of his tenure at USC. It was a bowl game type interview, I believe. One of the questions asked (he was being asked general questions about his time at USC) caused him to respond with this: Iowa's offense (Orange Bowl) was the toughest offense to prepare for while at his tenure at USC. And he didn't have to say this, Iowa wasn't brought up by the interviewer and wasn't a topic at all in the interview. His reasoning was that it was so multiple and had so many tendencies (i.e. seemingly easy to prepare for) that it was hard to prepare given it was so hard to know exactly what iowa was going to do as everything looked similar yet iowa was multiple and was great at breaking tendencies and catching you out of position.
take the above for what it's worth, but i was certainly impressed by the compliment.
it doesn't matter how vanilla or complex an offense or defense appears to be, if you don't have the personnel to run it, it is not going to be as good as it could be.
imported_UHawk
Well-Known Member
That comment is hilarious. People make that assessment of KF on here all the time and they just get railed for it. This is how outsiders of the Iowa program feel about KF and staff. They don't let bias get involved in their analysis.
That is who he is and many on here agree when they see it put like that by SVP.
That is who he is and many on here agree when they see it put like that by SVP.
G
GhostofGhost
Guest
I think Vanpelt is a good analyst. I love KF, but I agreed with Vanpelt today. Kinda mixed emotion I guess!
GoHawks24
Well-Known Member
It's because Van Pelt doesn't drink the Hawkeye kool-aid and is realistic. Kirk would get absolutely tore up at the NFL level, especially if he took his butt buddy KOK with him. Maybe if he had somebody who actually knows what the hell they're doing on offense then maybe he'd have a shot. If Kirk wants to go, then go right ahead, but I think there's no way he leaves Iowa. He has it made here. Can you imagine how pissy he would get during an NFL press conference where they actually ask him tough questions???
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patmyne
Well-Known Member
I thought he was "mediocre" cause we are "just Iowa?"
Iowa "can't do better" right?
I'm confused I guess. Honest assessment many of you say. Yet we pay top dollar and most say he is worth every penny.
Screw SVP. You don't judge coaching by win/loss records. Especially lil ol Iowa.
Kirk is a more than capable NFL coach and I think it's pretty safe to say that NFL brass no infinite more than the likes of SVP...
Iowa "can't do better" right?
I'm confused I guess. Honest assessment many of you say. Yet we pay top dollar and most say he is worth every penny.
Screw SVP. You don't judge coaching by win/loss records. Especially lil ol Iowa.
Kirk is a more than capable NFL coach and I think it's pretty safe to say that NFL brass no infinite more than the likes of SVP...
H8IAST8
Well-Known Member
See Nick Saban, Spurrier, etc....
VenturaAce
Well-Known Member
A GM "thinking highly of him" and putting their GM job security on his back are two different things. A lot of guys are considered in high regards as good people, honest men that they would enjoy working with. I just don't know of many that would be willing to put their own job security in the NFL on a guy (1) whose track record against rivals is something less than stellar, (2) loses a game or two each year against inferior talent, (3) reluctant to make in house coaching staff changes due to loyalty to those around them and (4) will no longer have the MAC/Sun Best as a punching bag 3 wins each year. The NFL salary cap is the great coaching equalizer, even many of college FB's good coaches don't bode well when they no longer have the recruiting or resource advantage available in college FB. Just scroll through any list of SEC coaches if you need any examples.
Montanahawk
Well-Known Member
Well, besides the obvious issues of recruiting at Iowa versus many other places whose head coaches go from college-to-pros(egs. Carroll, and Saban).
The strength of KF is as a teacher of the game not in recruiting(obviously something he won't have to do in the NFL).
Iowa has the 8th most players in the NFL of any program inspite of recruiting at around the 40th best level. Obviously, his program makes players NFL ready at a rate much higher than at most programs. Arguably, Iowa is the best in the country at developing NFL players.
His experience at the NFL level came as a coach under the best coach in the league, and his son is a member of that coaches staff(a indirect compliment of KF).
He runs his team in the NFL model. So, everything from the language of the plays, to film breakdown, to the offensive and defensive schemes are out of the pro model.
So, while there are coaches who have more innovative offensive minds and have better records at elite programs. KF's talents are principally as a teacher of the game and as an administrator of the program. In some ways KF's greatest coaching strengths are more tailored for the pros than college ball.
I could see why KC would be interested in Ferentz. He's probably more impressive to Pioli than an outside observer simply because he knows Ferentz's mind and has seen his "product"(players) up close.
The strength of KF is as a teacher of the game not in recruiting(obviously something he won't have to do in the NFL).
Iowa has the 8th most players in the NFL of any program inspite of recruiting at around the 40th best level. Obviously, his program makes players NFL ready at a rate much higher than at most programs. Arguably, Iowa is the best in the country at developing NFL players.
His experience at the NFL level came as a coach under the best coach in the league, and his son is a member of that coaches staff(a indirect compliment of KF).
He runs his team in the NFL model. So, everything from the language of the plays, to film breakdown, to the offensive and defensive schemes are out of the pro model.
So, while there are coaches who have more innovative offensive minds and have better records at elite programs. KF's talents are principally as a teacher of the game and as an administrator of the program. In some ways KF's greatest coaching strengths are more tailored for the pros than college ball.
I could see why KC would be interested in Ferentz. He's probably more impressive to Pioli than an outside observer simply because he knows Ferentz's mind and has seen his "product"(players) up close.
