HawkIreign
Well-Known Member
Is this a true story? I haven't heard anyone scream at an Iowa basketball game in a few years.
Roy Marble destroying the competition
- Thread starter storminspank
- Start date
Is this a true story? I haven't heard anyone scream at an Iowa basketball game in a few years.
knighthawk13
Well-Known Member
We don't have the depth to run. Once that changes, this team will be given plenty of opportunities to run up and down the court.
GhostofBTT
Banned
Again missing the point. I have no problem with posting updates on our recruits. I do have a problem with the guy to whom I was responding talking about how our recruits are kicking *** and how they will propell us into the top half of the Big 10. Sorry, but some kid consistantly going 25 and 5 in some high school league is not enough to convince me that he will lift this program up. I don't care if he can prove it against 17 year old kids. I go to the Y and burn 17 year old kids all the time. It is another thing to prove it against 22 year men who know the game, have the best coaches in the country, and who don't give a damn what you accomplished in South Dakota.
Then of course you take the strawman argument that I since I don't think stats are important, that we should recruit 5 and 2 players. Stormin, you know there are things stats can tell us, and there are things stats can't tell us. Stats can probably tell us that a player is not D1 material, but stats sure as hell can't tell us if he is.
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
I believe this to be accurate.
Also in response to the poster who stated that others would be posting bad stats as an example of how poor this recruiting class is, I agree there are probably some who would. I tend to believe that there are some who have gone all in on the hopes for a coaching change and are no longer hoping for a turn around with this staff.
I'm sure there are also some who hope that we don't see just enough of a turn around next year to justify an extension because they have lost faith.. I get that group to some extent because this has been a pretty low point in history.
Count me as still on the fence of faith but hoping for some bright signs. Crazy numbers like the ones spank posted deffinately give me hope.
Hey Ghost
Are you always a JA or just today. If you read my post I did not say the 4 recruits alone would propel the team to the top of the Big 10. I said that their skill and mental attitude combined with current players like Gatens, Cole, May, Payne and Coughill allow them to be a top half Big 10 team in 2011-2012. You keep playing your Y ball and schooling the 17 year olds and keep your negative comments away.
Are you always a JA or just today. If you read my post I did not say the 4 recruits alone would propel the team to the top of the Big 10. I said that their skill and mental attitude combined with current players like Gatens, Cole, May, Payne and Coughill allow them to be a top half Big 10 team in 2011-2012. You keep playing your Y ball and schooling the 17 year olds and keep your negative comments away.
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
"Then of course you take the strawman argument that I since I don't think stats are important, that we should recruit 5 and 2 players. Stormin, you know there are things stats can tell us, and there are things stats can't tell us. Stats can probably tell us that a player is not D1 material, but stats sure as hell can't tell us if he is."
If the level of competition is quality, then I dissagree with your last statement. Stats aren't everything but good numbers against good competition are deffinately a good indicator. Conversly poor stats vs good competition don't always mean everything. Some players have intangibles/ potential and can blossom if given a chance. There is no hard rule here.
If the level of competition is quality, then I dissagree with your last statement. Stats aren't everything but good numbers against good competition are deffinately a good indicator. Conversly poor stats vs good competition don't always mean everything. Some players have intangibles/ potential and can blossom if given a chance. There is no hard rule here.
GhostofBTT
Banned
The level of competition means nothing. The game is just a different game. Just like the NBA is a different game than college, and even the most dominant college basketball players like Adam Morrison and JJ Reddick do nothing there. Even the most dominant High school player could be a bust in college. Like the NBA, there are a very small number of players who are so physically gifted that they are able to make the transition from high school to college and remain completely dominant, but for the majority, they have to learn a new game all over again.
For example, the fact that Brust is scoring 50 a game does not impress me at all. He will never play a game where two teams go over 100 in the Big 10. The game he is playing over in Illinois is like comparing Arena football to the NFL; it is completely different.
I do know however that if Ben was only scoring 10 per game you would be highlighting that in a negative way! If a kid scores 50 it means a couple of things. 1) he is a scorer! (maybe not 50 per game in college but he is a scorer) 2) He is a hell of lot better than the kids his own age which means when he becomes a soph, junior and senior in college he will compete very well! That is the same with the rest of the recruits. They all played on competitive AAU teams against the best kids in the country and competed and out competed many of the them. This group will be good down the road.
NewMexHawk
Well-Known Member
Excuse me but we rarely if ever watch Iowa run fast breaks even when they have the opportunity and it isn't me that continually talks about how DIFFICULT Lickliter's system is to learn and how the players just don't get it? And if they get to run the fast break each and every time they play solid defense, then what does that tell you about their defense, because rarely IF ever do they run fast breaks. But then Iowa's defense is typically so bad, I guess you can turn the table and say that because Iowa doesn't play outstanding defense they don't run the fast break?
So what I am hearing from you is that once Iowa develops that tough defense that Lickliter wants, that Iowa fans can expect a running fast break team each and every time they rebound the ball? No more hold the ball for 30 seconds or possession type ball...Iowa will be running every chance they get IS THAT RIGHT? As long as they play outstanding defense, they will be trying to run fast breaks each and every time?
Well, I can't wait!
To run fast breaks means speeding up the game, which means increased possessions, and that is exactly what Lickliter does not want to do. So which is it? Apparently you are an insider here? Lickliter wants to hold the number of possessions down but his real intent is to fast break every time he gets the chance?
IF in fact Iowa were able to run fast breaks each and every time (as you say) they play outstanding defense, Iowa would be more of an uptempo team, exactly the opposite of what Lickliter is trying to install at Iowa. That is why Iowa walks the ball up the court each and every possession.
So please don't give me this about Iowa wanting to run fast breaks all the time because it simply is not true and you know it.
And typically Iowa does a terrible job of rebounding. If the guards are supposed to be rebounding more and do not, whose fault is that? Oh that's right, they are young and his system isn't all that hard to learn apparently?
And you don't think players have a difficult time adjusting to Lickliter's system? These players are coming from uptempo teams and now have to adjust to Lickliter keepaway slowdown BB, unless we are to believe you that Iowa truly wants to run fast breaks each and every time down the floor?
If they don't have trouble adjusting then then it is a case: 1) he is not a very good teacher of what he wants, 2) they are just not very good players, 3) they are slow learners (they just don't get it), or 4) the system is quite difficult to learn, or 5) lets just say they are young and make it easy and then we don't even have to think of the other points?
All we hear are excuses.... the team is too young, or the fans don't understand bb, or the system is too complicated (except for those who truly understand the game), or they aren't patient enough, or they lie, or what the team really plans to do only we dumb fans just don't understand the finer points of the game (only those plans fly in the face of what Lickliter says he wants), and on and on....
Yea duff you bet...
So what I am hearing from you is that once Iowa develops that tough defense that Lickliter wants, that Iowa fans can expect a running fast break team each and every time they rebound the ball? No more hold the ball for 30 seconds or possession type ball...Iowa will be running every chance they get IS THAT RIGHT? As long as they play outstanding defense, they will be trying to run fast breaks each and every time?
Well, I can't wait!
To run fast breaks means speeding up the game, which means increased possessions, and that is exactly what Lickliter does not want to do. So which is it? Apparently you are an insider here? Lickliter wants to hold the number of possessions down but his real intent is to fast break every time he gets the chance?
IF in fact Iowa were able to run fast breaks each and every time (as you say) they play outstanding defense, Iowa would be more of an uptempo team, exactly the opposite of what Lickliter is trying to install at Iowa. That is why Iowa walks the ball up the court each and every possession.
So please don't give me this about Iowa wanting to run fast breaks all the time because it simply is not true and you know it.
And typically Iowa does a terrible job of rebounding. If the guards are supposed to be rebounding more and do not, whose fault is that? Oh that's right, they are young and his system isn't all that hard to learn apparently?
And you don't think players have a difficult time adjusting to Lickliter's system? These players are coming from uptempo teams and now have to adjust to Lickliter keepaway slowdown BB, unless we are to believe you that Iowa truly wants to run fast breaks each and every time down the floor?
If they don't have trouble adjusting then then it is a case: 1) he is not a very good teacher of what he wants, 2) they are just not very good players, 3) they are slow learners (they just don't get it), or 4) the system is quite difficult to learn, or 5) lets just say they are young and make it easy and then we don't even have to think of the other points?
All we hear are excuses.... the team is too young, or the fans don't understand bb, or the system is too complicated (except for those who truly understand the game), or they aren't patient enough, or they lie, or what the team really plans to do only we dumb fans just don't understand the finer points of the game (only those plans fly in the face of what Lickliter says he wants), and on and on....
Yea duff you bet...
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
Sure it's a different game at both levels but we are not talking about College to NBA, we are takling about high level High school to high level College. The games are a lot closer the talent is massivly thinner in college and the odds of a prolific high school player (playing vs good competition) transitioning those skills to the college court are quite a bit higher than they are from college to the NBA.
There are no gimmes and true there are busts but brother you are reaching if you are trying to suggest that a kid who dominates in highschool vs good competition is not considerably more likely to be D1 material than a kid who puts up (plug in your own numbers here) vs weak competition.
Remember no one here has said these numbers will transition to the college game , only the player.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
I'm saying stats in high school have SOME MERIT. That's why I (and others) post them. There is SOME MERIT behind excelling at the prep level.
IATrainMaster101
Well-Known Member
"So what I am hearing from you is that once Iowa develops that tough defense that Lickliter wants, that Iowa fans can expect a running fast break team each and every time they rebound the ball?"
Where on earth did you read that? Running when the opportunity presents itself (because depth allows) is quite different than Loyola Marymount 1980's ball. There is a middle ground. I think you over shot your point just a bit.
Where on earth did you read that? Running when the opportunity presents itself (because depth allows) is quite different than Loyola Marymount 1980's ball. There is a middle ground. I think you over shot your point just a bit.
Thawki
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say they mean nothing, ghost.
If he is doing it against solid competition in Michigan, they don't mean anything. If it gets him a high ranking in recruiting services, that doesn't mean nothing either. Now, recruiting services aren't perfect, but having a high rating with them is a better thing, typically, than to not have a high rating.
I think your comment is symbolic of your current attitude towards the program.
If he is doing it against solid competition in Michigan, they don't mean anything. If it gets him a high ranking in recruiting services, that doesn't mean nothing either. Now, recruiting services aren't perfect, but having a high rating with them is a better thing, typically, than to not have a high rating.
I think your comment is symbolic of your current attitude towards the program.
HeneryHawk
Well-Known Member
Can HS stats offer insight to how good a guy could do in college? Maybe. It really demonstrates that he is a player at the level he is playing, and if his stats are large, then he is dominating at that level. Does it translate to success in college? No, though it may indicate a greater chance to do well, perhaps even excell. In the stats, does it reveal the level of competition, or whether its a one man team, or if he is just physically out matching his competition, or of the style of ball he is playing anything close to what he will walk into in college? In this instance with Marble, I like what I read, but it also indicates a wide open style of play, and with this coach, hsi passive style offense and passive style-off man/man on man D, well is it a fit? Will he have to taught how the universe works all over again ( you know, that the sun is the center of the universe and the world isnt flat ), and then will is be how long before he "gets it", especially when most on this team havent got it yet.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
I simply pointed out your statement that people who come here will "no longer get to run fast breaks" because of the system is completely false. We do selectively run fast breaks. Gatens and May in particular look to push the ball when they get a rebound and break out of traffic with a quick dribble. Another 6-6 swing man with ball handling skills and some athleticism could certainly do that as well. We only break when we rebound the basketball in good position or create a turnovers. Unfortunately this year’s team hasn’t played consistent enough on defense to make those two things happen very often.
As pointed out we don’t rebound particularly well, we don’t have much size, and we don’t have much lateral quickness. That isn’t a “system†thing, that’s a “this team†thing. Licks previous two years teams were very solid on defense, we just lack some horses this year.
Lastly my issue with your grossly inaccurate statements doesn’t begin and end here. If you want to be taken seriously on this board I suggest you be a little more selective in what you type in it. For example here are just a few of the things you’ve said here that range from broad inaccurate generalities to out and out lies….
Does Ben understand that in the "system" there will be no fast breaking and that uptempo ball is shunned?
== Addressed above
"...Lickliter has said he thinks he has a lot of talent and is a quick learner."
I guess people would argue that point, have you watched Tuck play defense?
== Tucker is widely regarded as our best on the ball defender and usually draws the assignment of defending the other teams best perimeter scoring threat
Lickliter didn't have any problems kicking Bohall off the team and that was his first time so what is the difference? And Bohall did not get picked up, he was found in the dorm if I remember correctly. Why didn't Lickliter keep him on the team and help him using the same logic? Starter compared to bench warmer? His job on the line? What?
== Completely False
Lastly we have this….
I don't pay attention to rumors about transfers until the players actually announce they are transferring and that doesn't happen until mid semester or end of semester. Saying that, it is always interesting how true some of the rumors end up but then if you thow enough mud against the wall some of it is bound to stick....
Followed by all of these….
Good grief...Looks like he might planning to transfer during semester break after all.
Guess the rumor wasn't totally false...Kid needs to get some help.
"Now, if there are transfers at the end of this year, all bets are off."
We have one. How many do you need? Or doesn't getting kicked off the team count?
As pointed out we don’t rebound particularly well, we don’t have much size, and we don’t have much lateral quickness. That isn’t a “system†thing, that’s a “this team†thing. Licks previous two years teams were very solid on defense, we just lack some horses this year.
Lastly my issue with your grossly inaccurate statements doesn’t begin and end here. If you want to be taken seriously on this board I suggest you be a little more selective in what you type in it. For example here are just a few of the things you’ve said here that range from broad inaccurate generalities to out and out lies….
Does Ben understand that in the "system" there will be no fast breaking and that uptempo ball is shunned?
== Addressed above
"...Lickliter has said he thinks he has a lot of talent and is a quick learner."
I guess people would argue that point, have you watched Tuck play defense?
== Tucker is widely regarded as our best on the ball defender and usually draws the assignment of defending the other teams best perimeter scoring threat
Lickliter didn't have any problems kicking Bohall off the team and that was his first time so what is the difference? And Bohall did not get picked up, he was found in the dorm if I remember correctly. Why didn't Lickliter keep him on the team and help him using the same logic? Starter compared to bench warmer? His job on the line? What?
== Completely False
Lastly we have this….
I don't pay attention to rumors about transfers until the players actually announce they are transferring and that doesn't happen until mid semester or end of semester. Saying that, it is always interesting how true some of the rumors end up but then if you thow enough mud against the wall some of it is bound to stick....
Followed by all of these….
Good grief...Looks like he might planning to transfer during semester break after all.
Guess the rumor wasn't totally false...Kid needs to get some help.
"Now, if there are transfers at the end of this year, all bets are off."
We have one. How many do you need? Or doesn't getting kicked off the team count?
Love hearing about the stats of incoming recruits for basketball. It doesn't mean much, but it sure is nice to hear that they are doing well instead of the opposite. Athletic dunks are something I would love to see again with Marble coming.
I love how this post turned into an argument about fast breaking for Iowa. For those of you that haven't watched Lickliter coach before Iowa then don't comment on how he directs his team. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Lickliter hasn't asked for everything that has happenned on every play. We need the players and this was a post to encourage some hope for the future of Iowa basketball.
Everyone jump on the last statement made about hope and future of Iowa basketball.
I love how this post turned into an argument about fast breaking for Iowa. For those of you that haven't watched Lickliter coach before Iowa then don't comment on how he directs his team. I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Lickliter hasn't asked for everything that has happenned on every play. We need the players and this was a post to encourage some hope for the future of Iowa basketball.
Everyone jump on the last statement made about hope and future of Iowa basketball.
ForeverHawk
Well-Known Member
Kinda gotta disagree there. Sometimes High School stats actually lead to full ride D1 scholarships!!!
And I am not going to name names, but there are about 5 of you on here that really bring this board down in my opinion. I am sure others agree. But keep it up, your negativity is amusing and I kind of feel sorry for you. I hope you are able to find some sort of happiness in your lives outside of the Iowa men's basketball program???
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