Robert Gallery

Why is this even a debate? You draft a guy that high at minimum you are expecting Jake Long, Joe Thomas and hopefully you get a Ogden or a Boselli. You do not expect to get a serviceable left guard.


Some of you need to take off the black and gold glasses, he is a bust. Gallery is a good dude, who made a lot of money, he will be alright, he isn't Ryan Leaf his after football life will be okay. Stop trying to make him more than what he is--a bust.
 
CAARHawk said:
BC and ML are not long term NFL starters. Gallery has started 103 out of 104 games in which he wasn't out because of injury. You get nothing from busts, not a decade of production. There is a large space between Joe Thomas and Bust. Gallery fills that space.
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Who cares if they are starters. I would wager a good back up Qb is moar important to a team than a serviceable left guard.
 
The term "bust" derives from the concept of going broke or going bankrupt..to go "bust".

So while you could argue that Gallery's career has been disappointing... as a 10 year starter he's definitely not "a bust".

A guy that washes out of the league completely...like JaMarcus Russell...now that, is a bust.
 
ssckelley said:
I know we have and I just realized I basically repeated what I have said before. What I consider to be a bust and what you consider to be a bust are 2 different things.

When I think of busts I think of Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Curtis Enis, Cedric Benson, Ki-Jana Carter, Rick Mirer, Tim Couch, and Charles Rogers. I would call a career for someone like Gallery who was picked #2 to be a disappointment as you do expect Pro Bowl quality drafting that high.

I bet the Rams would love to have Gallery's production out of Jason Smith (another #2 overall pick at RT) or how about Mike Williams (4th overall in 2002 for Bills)?
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No problem, I was just trying to avoid rehashing the same conversation too much.

I am by no means trying to insinuate that RG is in the category of Leaf or Russell. I will just again quickly point out that the list you've provided are the extreme examples. Those of us viewing him as a bust aren't saying he's one of the worst of all time. It's at this point in the discussion where his career does clearly provide merit in the argument, but just enough to keep clear separation from that group of players in my mind.
 
hawkdrummer1 said:
The term "bust" derives from the concept of going broke or going bankrupt..to go "bust".

So while you could argue that Gallery's career has been disappointing... as a 10 year starter he's definitely not "a bust".

A guy that washes out of the league completely...like JaMarcus Russell...now that, is a bust.
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You do realize he got drafted before the rookie salary cap? You think the Raiders spent all that money on a guard who can start for 10 years?
 
hawkdrummer1 said:
The term "bust" derives from the concept of going broke or going bankrupt..to go "bust".

So while you could argue that Gallery's career has been disappointing... as a 10 year starter he's definitely not "a bust".

A guy that washes out of the league completely...like JaMarcus Russell...now that, is a bust.
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If you want to put financial numbers to it for contracts similar in guaranteed money at the time:

Robert Gallery, $18MM guaranteed
Kurt Warner, $19MM guaranteed
AJ Hawk, $15MM guaranteed
Alan Faneca, $20MM guaranteed
Joe Staley $18MM guaranteed (re-upped from rookie contract)

In comparison, the results didn't add up, so it's fair to say he busted the Raiders on that investment.
 
I've said for a long time that Gallery is a "sort of" bust. He's been a good guard and decent right tackle. But you don't draft those guys #2. But he's not a complete bust like a Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell.
 
tm3308 said:
I've said for a long time that Gallery is a "sort of" bust. He's been a good guard and decent right tackle. But you don't draft those guys #2. But he's not a complete bust like a Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell.
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Exactly what I said earlier. Bust as the #2 pick, not a bust as an NFL football player.
 
hogeye said:
You can move the goal posts to where ever you want to. Everyone sees things differently. But if you want to try selling RG not being a bust going #2 overall predicated on the fact he went to Oakland and failed to be a premier starting LT that had to be shuffled into G in order to be retained as a starter you're in for a lot of disappointing conversations.

No, he isn't the standard for the term.
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Thank you for admitting he's not a bust. In a way, the semantics are silly; any attempt to put Gallery in the_same_category as Leaf or Russell is ridiculous, whether you call the category "bust" or "carp" or "finklesnozz".

There are far worse busts, but the majority of people consider him a bust nonetheless.
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Irrelevant. The majority of people are idiots and can't name their congressperson. The people who matter - NFL coaches and executives - do not consider Gallery a "bust". Underachieved his pick, yes, bust, no.
 
hogeye said:
No problem, I was just trying to avoid rehashing the same conversation too much.

I am by no means trying to insinuate that RG is in the category of Leaf or Russell. I will just again quickly point out that the list you've provided are the extreme examples. Those of us viewing him as a bust aren't saying he's one of the worst of all time. It's at this point in the discussion where his career does clearly provide merit in the argument, but just enough to keep clear separation from that group of players in my mind.
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But to me busts are those extreme examples, and those are just a handful from the past few years. There are also loads of top 5 picks that never became Pro Bowl players but still had good NFL careers (like Gallery). To me if you had a number of years as a starter, especially for the team that drafted you, to me means you were not a bust.

Another reason why people consider Gallery a bust is because of all the talent that was available in that 2004 draft. Seven of the top 10 players in that draft went to a Pro Bowl and a couple will be HoF by the time their career is over. Put Gallery in the 2005 draft, 2002, or 2008 and people are saying not a bad pick. Of the top 5 picks between 2000 and 2010 only 26 of the 50 picks played in at least 1 Pro Bowl and only 10 became All Pro (first team). If your definition of a non bust player means getting to a Pro Bowl then about 1/2 are busts, if it is becoming an All Pro then 80% of all top 5 picks are busts.
 
Billso said:
The people who matter - NFL coaches and executives - do not consider Gallery a "bust". Underachieved his pick, yes, bust, no.
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I think if you were to ask all NFL GM's if they drafted their LT of the future with the #2 overall pick and only got a few good years out of him at guard they would all consider him a bust.
 
Section136 said:
Exactly what I said earlier. Bust as the #2 pick, not a bust as an NFL football player.
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Semantics.....He is a bust it does not make you a cyclone fan to admit so. Buy some of his art to make yourself take a definitive stand.....Geez, you are worse than a politician.;)
 
ssckelley said:
But to me busts are those extreme examples, and those are just a handful from the past few years. There are also loads of top 5 picks that never became Pro Bowl players but still had good NFL careers (like Gallery). To me if you had a number of years as a starter, especially for the team that drafted you, to me means you were not a bust.

Another reason why people consider Gallery a bust is because of all the talent that was available in that 2004 draft. Seven of the top 10 players in that draft went to a Pro Bowl and a couple will be HoF by the time their career is over. Put Gallery in the 2005 draft, 2002, or 2008 and people are saying not a bad pick. Of the top 5 picks between 2000 and 2010 only 26 of the 50 picks played in at least 1 Pro Bowl and only 10 became All Pro (first team). If your definition of a non bust player means getting to a Pro Bowl then about 1/2 are busts, if it is becoming an All Pro then 80% of all top 5 picks are busts.
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ssckelley said:
But to me busts are those extreme examples, and those are just a handful from the past few years. There are also loads of top 5 picks that never became Pro Bowl players but still had good NFL careers (like Gallery). To me if you had a number of years as a starter, especially for the team that drafted you, to me means you were not a bust.

Another reason why people consider Gallery a bust is because of all the talent that was available in that 2004 draft. Seven of the top 10 players in that draft went to a Pro Bowl and a couple will be HoF by the time their career is over. Put Gallery in the 2005 draft, 2002, or 2008 and people are saying not a bad pick. Of the top 5 picks between 2000 and 2010 only 26 of the 50 picks played in at least 1 Pro Bowl and only 10 became All Pro (first team). If your definition of a non bust player means getting to a Pro Bowl then about 1/2 are busts, if it is becoming an All Pro then 80% of all top 5 picks are busts.
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And he would still be a bust.....He was brought in to anchor that line for a decade and he simply did not do it you could not be more wrong.
 
Section136 said:
I think if you were to ask all NFL GM's if they drafted their LT of the future with the #2 overall pick and only got a few good years out of him at guard they would all consider him a bust.
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Except we've seen quotes from NFL GMs refuting your statement. And 10 years in the league is much more than "a few good years".
 
Billso said:
Except we've seen quotes from NFL GMs refuting your statement. And 10 years in the league is much more than "a few good years".
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Please provide statements from the Raiders front office personnel saying that they are happy with the ROI they got with their #2 overall pick in the 2003 draft.

10 years in the league and not all of them are at guard. And he was not a great RT either. Still following along Billy?
 
hogeye said:
If you want to put financial numbers to it for contracts similar in guaranteed money at the time:

Robert Gallery, $18MM guaranteed
Kurt Warner, $19MM guaranteed
AJ Hawk, $15MM guaranteed
Alan Faneca, $20MM guaranteed
Joe Staley $18MM guaranteed (re-upped from rookie contract)

In comparison, the results didn't add up, so it's fair to say he busted the Raiders on that investment.
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So is AJ Hawk a bust then? He was what the 4th overall pick, pretty high for a LB who I would say didn't live up to expectations of the 4th overall pick, and I am a Packers fan saying this. I don't think he was a bust at all, though he nearly got cut a few years ago. Maybe cause his team won the superbowl he gets a pass?
 
I don't think some people on here understand what people typically mean when they call someone a bust. Typically a bust is referring to someone like Ryan Leaf who just completetly bombed when there were picked so high. I have never heard of someone who has started for 10 years in the league being a bust in any sport.

THere are players who don't play up to their pick in the first round all the time and they aren't considered busts. Just like someone pointed out above, AJ Hawk was the 4th pick. I would say he hasn't lived up to being picked as the 4th pick but he is not a bust.
 
ssckelley said:
When I think of busts I think of Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, Curtis Enis, Cedric Benson, Ki-Jana Carter, Rick Mirer, Tim Couch, and Charles Rogers.
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lol, I remember people questioning that pick about as quick as peopled questioned the Vikings drafting Chritian Ponder at # 12 last year.
 
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