HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
Listening to the call in show made me want to look at the numbers again. Long-winded post, but I just think the Davis and Ferentz situations are different in looking at keeping or retaining that said coach.
Tom Davis 13 years
Kirk Ferentz 14 years
I was never for letting Mr. Davis go. Just wanted to look at these coaching comparisons again. Obviously Ferentz has a couple of Big Ten Titles, Mr. Davis technically never got one (the big reason Bowlsby let him go to do better). Ferentz clearly had more success in the past here.
But, Tom only had 2 losing seasons at Iowa. It appears Ferentz is headed for his fifth losing season (granted two of them were during the rebuilding years).
Let's put Hayden into the equation:
Hayden 5 losing seasons in 19 years. 3 Big Ten Titles. 3 of those losing seasons were near the end of this coaching tenure at Iowa.
In looking at these 3 coaches, I'm trying to gauge "the health of the program" at the end of the Hayden and Davis years and the current health of the football program now under Ferentz. Both Fry and Ferentz averaged around 7 wins a year. That final Fry year was 4 games under the average. It is possible we could finish 2-3 games under the average this year for Ferentz.
Tom had this last team pretty much at the level he typically had his teams and made a sweet sixteen. He was still producing...... imho it was foolish to get rid of him. Even a few years later, he was able to make a doormat at Drake somewhat respectable.
Fry was slipping. He got out of the game.
Ferentz appears to be slipping similar to Fry. The question is, does Ferentz still have more millage left in him? Fry and Ferentz are looking very similar in years coached and how the later years have/are shaping up.
I believe by my math, Fry was 69 when he retired from Iowa. Ferentz still has 12 more years before he would reach that age and has that long contract lined up.
Hopefully it is just a real down year and he will have another run. The higher rated recruiting classes (like Jon has mentioned) will make a difference in the next couple of years. If not, we could be in a lot of trouble as a program.
Right now, I would say as a football program, we are about as bad, maybe will turn out to be a bit better than that 2000 team. But, it just makes me frustrated (don't get me wrong, I like what I'm seeing from Fran) how we can dismiss Mr. Davis who kept Iowa more or less at a consistent level, but lock up Ferentz for so long when his teams have been so up and down of late and what appears to be on a downward spiral. Barta put a lot of Ferentz stock into a BCS win over a non-traditional power in Georgia Tech (with an aging Defensive Coordinator and an Offensive Coordinator producing mixed results).
Also, I think comparing Davis to Ferentz to say be careful what you wish for because these situations are similar.....I'm not so sure they are to the extent of worrying about what happens if Ferentz leaves. At least at the end of the Davis Era at Iowa, he will still producing a respectable product. Ferentz is currently not.
The one thing to keep in mind though, over a five year span, with probably the exception of this year, Ferentz has had his team win at least 7 games a season. So, is this year just statistical noise, or is it the making of worse things to come?
Tom Davis 13 years
| Iowa Hawkeyes (Big 10 Conference) (1986–1999) | ||||||||
| 1986-1987 | Iowa | 30-5 | 14-4 | 3rd | NCAA Elite 8 | |||
| 1987-1988 | Iowa | 24-10 | 12-6 | 3rd | NCAA Sweet 16 | |||
| 1988-1989 | Iowa | 23-10 | 10-8 | 4th | NCAA 2nd Round | |||
| 1989-1990 | Iowa | 12-16 | 4-14 | T-8th | ||||
| 1990-1991 | Iowa | 21-11 | 9-9 | T-5th | NCAA 2nd Round | |||
| 1991-1992 | Iowa | 19-11 | 10-8 | 5th | NCAA 2nd Round | |||
| 1992-1993 | Iowa | 23-9 | 11-7 | T-3rd | NCAA 2nd Round | |||
| 1993-1994 | Iowa | 11-16 | 5-13 | T-9th | ||||
| 1994-1995 | Iowa | 21-12 | 9-9 | T-7th | NIT 3rd Round | |||
| 1995-1996 | Iowa | 23-9 | 11-7 | 4th | NCAA 2nd Round | |||
| 1996-1997 | Iowa | 22-10 | 12-6 | T-2nd | NCAA 2nd Round | |||
| 1997-1998 | Iowa | 20-11 | 9-7 | T-5th | NIT 1st Round | |||
| 1998-1999 | Iowa | 20-10 | 9-7 | T-3rd | NCAA Sweet 16 | |||
| Iowa: | 269-140 | 125-105 |
Kirk Ferentz 14 years
| 1999 | Iowa | 1–10 | 0–8 | 11th | |||
| 2000 | Iowa | 3–9 | 3–5 | 8th | |||
| 2001 | Iowa | 7–5 | 4–4 | T–4th | W Alamo | ||
| 2002 | Iowa | 11–2 | 8–0 | T–1st | L Orange[SUP]†[/SUP] | 8 | 8 |
| 2003 | Iowa | 10–3 | 5–3 | T–4th | W Outback | 8 | 8 |
| 2004 | Iowa | 10–2 | 7–1 | T–1st | W Capital One | 8 | 8 |
| 2005 | Iowa | 7–6 | 5–3 | T–3rd | L Outback | ||
| 2006 | Iowa | 6–7 | 2–6 | T–8th | L Alamo | ||
| 2007 | Iowa | 6–6 | 4–4 | T–5th | |||
| 2008 | Iowa | 9–4 | 5–3 | T–4th | W Outback | 20 | 20 |
| 2009 | Iowa | 11–2 | 6–2 | T–2nd | W Orange[SUP]†[/SUP] | 7 | 7 |
| 2010 | Iowa | 8–5 | 4–4 | T–4th | W Insight | ||
| 2011 | Iowa | 7–6 | 4–4 | 4th (Legends) | L Insight | ||
| 2012 | Iowa | 4–5 | 2–3 | (Legends) | |||
| Iowa: | 100–71 | 59–49 |
I was never for letting Mr. Davis go. Just wanted to look at these coaching comparisons again. Obviously Ferentz has a couple of Big Ten Titles, Mr. Davis technically never got one (the big reason Bowlsby let him go to do better). Ferentz clearly had more success in the past here.
But, Tom only had 2 losing seasons at Iowa. It appears Ferentz is headed for his fifth losing season (granted two of them were during the rebuilding years).
Let's put Hayden into the equation:
| 1979 | Iowa | 5–6 | 4–4 | 5th | |||
| 1980 | Iowa | 4–7 | 4–4 | 4th | |||
| 1981 | Iowa | 8–4 | 6–2 | T–1st | L Rose | 15 | 18 |
| 1982 | Iowa | 8–4 | 6–2 | 3rd | W Peach | ||
| 1983 | Iowa | 9–3 | 7–2 | 3rd | L Gator | 14 | 14 |
| 1984 | Iowa | 8–4–1 | 5–3–1 | T–4th | W Freedom | 15 | 16 |
| 1985 | Iowa | 10–2 | 7–1 | 1st | L Rose | 9 | 10 |
| 1986 | Iowa | 9–3 | 5–3 | T–3rd | W Holiday | 15 | 16 |
| 1987 | Iowa | 10–3 | 6–2 | T–2nd | W Holiday | 16 | 16 |
| 1988 | Iowa | 6–4–3 | 4–1–3 | T–3rd | L Peach | ||
| 1989 | Iowa | 5–6 | 3–5 | T–6th | |||
| 1990 | Iowa | 8–4 | 6–2 | T–1st | L Rose | 16 | 18 |
| 1991 | Iowa | 10–1–1 | 7–1 | 2nd | T Holiday | 10 | 10 |
| 1992 | Iowa | 5–7 | 4–4 | 5th | |||
| 1993 | Iowa | 6–6 | 3–5 | 8th | L Alamo | ||
| 1994 | Iowa | 5–5–1 | 3–4–1 | 7th | |||
| 1995 | Iowa | 8–4 | 4–4 | 6th | W Sun | 22 | 25 |
| 1996 | Iowa | 9–3 | 6–2 | T–3rd | W Alamo | 18 | 18 |
| 1997 | Iowa | 7–5 | 4–4 | T–6th | L Sun | ||
| 1998 | Iowa | 3–8 | 2–6 | T–7th |
Hayden 5 losing seasons in 19 years. 3 Big Ten Titles. 3 of those losing seasons were near the end of this coaching tenure at Iowa.
In looking at these 3 coaches, I'm trying to gauge "the health of the program" at the end of the Hayden and Davis years and the current health of the football program now under Ferentz. Both Fry and Ferentz averaged around 7 wins a year. That final Fry year was 4 games under the average. It is possible we could finish 2-3 games under the average this year for Ferentz.
Tom had this last team pretty much at the level he typically had his teams and made a sweet sixteen. He was still producing...... imho it was foolish to get rid of him. Even a few years later, he was able to make a doormat at Drake somewhat respectable.
Fry was slipping. He got out of the game.
Ferentz appears to be slipping similar to Fry. The question is, does Ferentz still have more millage left in him? Fry and Ferentz are looking very similar in years coached and how the later years have/are shaping up.
I believe by my math, Fry was 69 when he retired from Iowa. Ferentz still has 12 more years before he would reach that age and has that long contract lined up.
Hopefully it is just a real down year and he will have another run. The higher rated recruiting classes (like Jon has mentioned) will make a difference in the next couple of years. If not, we could be in a lot of trouble as a program.
Right now, I would say as a football program, we are about as bad, maybe will turn out to be a bit better than that 2000 team. But, it just makes me frustrated (don't get me wrong, I like what I'm seeing from Fran) how we can dismiss Mr. Davis who kept Iowa more or less at a consistent level, but lock up Ferentz for so long when his teams have been so up and down of late and what appears to be on a downward spiral. Barta put a lot of Ferentz stock into a BCS win over a non-traditional power in Georgia Tech (with an aging Defensive Coordinator and an Offensive Coordinator producing mixed results).
Also, I think comparing Davis to Ferentz to say be careful what you wish for because these situations are similar.....I'm not so sure they are to the extent of worrying about what happens if Ferentz leaves. At least at the end of the Davis Era at Iowa, he will still producing a respectable product. Ferentz is currently not.
The one thing to keep in mind though, over a five year span, with probably the exception of this year, Ferentz has had his team win at least 7 games a season. So, is this year just statistical noise, or is it the making of worse things to come?
