Recruit a Lock Down Defender??

MelroseHawkins

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
Would it be in Iowa's best interest to go out and try to find a specialized lock down defender, even if they don't score all that much? Like a guy who can take care of the ball, keep turnovers to a minimal, but be damn good at defending and rebounding.

Maybe not even have to be at the PG position, but just a guy that can be assigned to the opposing teams best player to keep in check. Iowa seems to have enough scoring but has lacked on the defense. Maybe getting one of these guys wouldn't be that bad for a team like Iowa to help on that end of the court. Iowa seems to find enough pts on the offense end and I think they could with 4 guys. A guy who can disrupt the other team or player, get some boards, even though only get you 2-5 pt's a game.

Seems a college team could be able to recruit one of these guys who may not get that many offers secondary to not being a scorer. The net gain could be there if they hold the opposing player down. A player like this could have his 5 pt's scored on the offense be an actual net gain for the team of 18 or so depending on how much they hold the other team down.

Just wondering and slow over here.
 
I think it's a good idea. Perhaps a 6'4" - 6"6" swingman who could guard a #1 - #3 opposing scorer. There are probably more of those type of players in HS than we think. Under the radar guy who only averages single digits but is overlooked in recruiting because he was not a big scorer. A lot of times those guys can also clean up and get some "trash buckets" on the offensive end.

As we all know our team defense is a weak point, scratch where it itches.
 
Hawk1960 said:
I think it's a good idea. Perhaps a 6'4" - 6"6" swingman who could guard a #1 - #3 opposing scorer. There are probably more of those type of players in HS than we think. Under the radar guy who only averages single digits but is overlooked in recruiting because he was not a big scorer. A lot of times those guys can also clean up and get some "trash buckets" on the offensive end.

As we all know our team defense is a weak point, scratch where it itches.
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This is exactly what I am thinking. Might be difficult to recruit if only looking at stats. Prob would have to come from word of mouth or observations when recruiting other players. But, I think they are out there and could benefit a team like Iowa who has a lot of offensive and interchangeable players. Try to get a couple on your roster is what I think.

Like you state, they are still quality b-ball players that could get a rebound and clean-up points, etc.. Again, Iowa would still have 4 players to spread the floor to score.
 
I’m pretty sure Joe Toussaint the guy who we literally just landed this weekend was known for his defensive mentality.

On the other hand that was all the hype when we landed Brandon Hutton out of Chicago and he never played a game for us and I don’t think at the D1 level either.

In all truthfulness defense is a team thing moreso than an individual player. Hopefully Toussaint is the guy you're looking for in your OP.
 
Yeah looking for a Bruce Bowen type.... If only they grew on trees.
The impact of playing 4 on 5 on offense is interesting. It just depends. Can the player still dribble drive and create? Or is he literally just a stand in the corner out of the way guy that can't shoot when left alone? Your right we do have plenty of guys that can put the ball in the basket so we don't really 'need' another offensive guy. What we 'need' are the guys we do have to play better team defense overall... Even just a little improvement in that regard and rebounding would go a long way
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I’m pretty sure Joe Toussaint the guy who we literally just landed this weekend was known for his defensive mentality.

On the other hand that was all the hype when we landed Brandon Hutton out of Chicago and he never played a game for us and I don’t think at the D1 level either.

In all truthfulness defense is a team thing moreso than an individual player. Hopefully Toussaint is the guy you're looking for in your OP.
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It is, but having a lock down defender is such a bonus when you can put that guy on the other teams penetrating PG or shooting swingman. It is not a bad deal having that specialized player on the court and becomes part of that team D you mention. When playing ball, every game your best defender gets assigned a certain player to guard. Nothing new.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
It is, but having a lock down defender is such a bonus when you can put that guy on the other teams penetrating PG or shooting swingman. It is not a bad deal having that specialized player on the court and becomes part of that team D you mention. When playing ball, every game your best defender gets assigned a certain player to guard. Nothing new.
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Everything I have read is Touissaint is a defense and pass first type player which I think can be a good fit here. We have never really had much of an issue scoring the ball.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Everything I have read is Touissaint is a defense and pass first type player which I think can be a good fit here. We have never really had much of an issue scoring the ball.
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I sure hope so unless we are reading into and presuming his defensive capabilities. He certainly shows to be quick enough, but his defense skills still have to equate to the NCAA game.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
I sure hope so unless we are reading into and presuming his defensive capabilities. He certainly shows to be quick enough, but his defense skills still have to equate to the NCAA game.
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"Joe is as tough as they come," said Rivals.com analyst Corey Evans. "He is an unselfish playmaker that is willing to do all of the smaller things for his unit to succeed. He’s efficient as a facilitator but even better as a defender."
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Would it be in Iowa's best interest to go out and try to find a specialized lock down defender, even if they don't score all that much? Like a guy who can take care of the ball, keep turnovers to a minimal, but be damn good at defending and rebounding.

Maybe not even have to be at the PG position, but just a guy that can be assigned to the opposing teams best player to keep in check. Iowa seems to have enough scoring but has lacked on the defense. Maybe getting one of these guys wouldn't be that bad for a team like Iowa to help on that end of the court. Iowa seems to find enough pts on the offense end and I think they could with 4 guys. A guy who can disrupt the other team or player, get some boards, even though only get you 2-5 pt's a game.

Seems a college team could be able to recruit one of these guys who may not get that many offers secondary to not being a scorer. The net gain could be there if they hold the opposing player down. A player like this could have his 5 pt's scored on the offense be an actual net gain for the team of 18 or so depending on how much they hold the other team down.

Just wondering and slow over here.
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It's done. Bada Book Bada Boom. Joe is a small, fast guard with a great center of gravity. His hands are disruptive while in his stance. There isn't a guard in the B1G that will be able to blow by him without some ankle breaking cross overs. I have only watched 2 full games as of yet but his defensive ability and quickness are what stand out the most.

Joe is also an under recruited guy that will probably work hard and be thankful for the opportunity. Not saying our other players are ungrateful just that in my experience the underdog type has a chance to cause an elevation in effort throughout an entire team. It's literally infectious. I believe we saw it a few years ago from Baer. When he was on the court the intensity was cranked way up. Then we went and gave him a scholarship and that edge went away. I believe Baer's main goal was simply to prove he belonged. I'm hoping this kid keeps the edge his whole career. We need a kid that wants to prove he is NBA worthy when the rest of the world has said nope. This guy just might fit the bill.
 
I worry that this player will get the defensive rebound and immediately get hacked and take his 45% FT shooting to the line regularly. Now those other 4 guys don't get a chance to score. And everyone will help off said player making it much harder to play 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

I'm only interested in this type of player if it's someone like Gerry Wright or Acie Earl (without an offensive game). Said player protects the rim and will put down 3 dunks a game if defenders help off of him.
 
WindsorHawk said:
I worry that this player will get the defensive rebound and immediately get hacked and take his 45% FT shooting to the line regularly. Now those other 4 guys don't get a chance to score. And everyone will help off said player making it much harder to play 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

I'm only interested in this type of player if it's someone like Gerry Wright or Acie Earl (without an offensive game). Said player protects the rim and will put down 3 dunks a game if defenders help off of him.
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I agree. I'm not really interested in finding the same caliber players with different holes in their game. I want better players without holes in their game. We can score as good as we can because we have good offensive players on the court. We would have to take the good scorers out of the game to put the good defenders in, instantly making us a bad offensive team (or average). The best thing to do is to make the players we have try harder on defense.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Would it be in Iowa's best interest to go out and try to find a specialized lock down defender, even if they don't score all that much? Like a guy who can take care of the ball, keep turnovers to a minimal, but be damn good at defending and rebounding.

Maybe not even have to be at the PG position, but just a guy that can be assigned to the opposing teams best player to keep in check. Iowa seems to have enough scoring but has lacked on the defense. Maybe getting one of these guys wouldn't be that bad for a team like Iowa to help on that end of the court. Iowa seems to find enough pts on the offense end and I think they could with 4 guys. A guy who can disrupt the other team or player, get some boards, even though only get you 2-5 pt's a game.

Seems a college team could be able to recruit one of these guys who may not get that many offers secondary to not being a scorer. The net gain could be there if they hold the opposing player down. A player like this could have his 5 pt's scored on the offense be an actual net gain for the team of 18 or so depending on how much they hold the other team down.

Just wondering and slow over here.
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Kenyon Murray?
 
WindsorHawk said:
I worry that this player will get the defensive rebound and immediately get hacked and take his 45% FT shooting to the line regularly. Now those other 4 guys don't get a chance to score. And everyone will help off said player making it much harder to play 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

I'm only interested in this type of player if it's someone like Gerry Wright or Acie Earl (without an offensive game). Said player protects the rim and will put down 3 dunks a game if defenders help off of him.
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Look at FT shooting in general. There are many players that don't shoot well anymore. Shaq was a horrible FT shooter. More importantly, the point is that this type of player could disrupt enough to really help the net gain in scoring by holding down the opposing player or disrupting enough. Screw the 3-5 Pts he might not get at the FT line when he could hold the opposing player down 10pts from his average. That kind of player will only get tot he FT line maybe 2-3 times a game. If goes 3 times a game, still getting 2-3 pts out of 6.

I wouldn't pass on what that player could provide defensively for an entire game worrying about the measly 4 pt's he might not get at the FT line.

People really need to look at the "net gain" in scoring difference instead of just the offensive output of some players.

Woodbury is a prime example and we are now realizing what he brought as we have missed this the past two years. He was not an offensive juggarnot but created havoc down low on defense. How many points was he worth, even though they didn't end up in the scoring book under his name. Net gain.
 
PCHawk said:
I agree. I'm not really interested in finding the same caliber players with different holes in their game. I want better players without holes in their game. We can score as good as we can because we have good offensive players on the court. We would have to take the good scorers out of the game to put the good defenders in, instantly making us a bad offensive team (or average). The best thing to do is to make the players we have try harder on defense.
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I want a lot of shit in life, perfect shit. But, I realize that is really hard to get. Of course we'd take the perfect player with no holes, but as we see in all team sports, that is very hard to accomplish. I am talking one specialized lock down defender in the game, not 2-3 of them. One guy to disrupt their best player or PG and flow of offense. I can't believe you can't understand the "net gain" a specialized defender brings.

Iowa clearly the past two years HAS NOT had a problem scoring points. The problem has always been on the defensive end, so Fran's theory that they will just outscore their opponents was not working.

Say you bring in a player that doesn't even score a point in the game but holds down an opposing player who averages 23 pts a game to 12 pts, It would be like that defensive specialist accounted for 11 pt's, hence, my "net gain" argument.You add in there a clean up basket and a few FT's made and that is up to 15 pt gain.

Dennis Rodman was this type of player. Provided the teams he played with defense and rebounding. Reggie Evans you could say was this type of player. Both had long NBA careers.
 
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MelroseHawkins said:
I think he scored quite a bit in his upper years but I think he had to grow into being a scorer. Early on I think you could say that.
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He was between like 9 and 12 pts his soph-sr years. I think his sophomore year was his best. But he wasn't by any means an offensive player. No plays were run for him. He wasn't coming off screens to catch and shoot or anything like that. He was an opportunistic guy who kinda reminds me of Baer. Scoring off of loose balls offensive putbacks stuff like that. He was a hustler that wasn't all that good of a shooter (Baer can shoot when he's on) or offensive player overall though
 
earlkoppelman said:
Kenyon Murray?
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That's a pretty darn good example I'd say. He wasn't an offensive guy so much as opportunistic around the rim on loose balls fast breaks and stuff like that. He was always getting steals and loose balls while pressing on Dr Toms D. But to say he was an offensive player even though he averaged almost 10 pts a game for his career wouldn't be a fair thing to say really.
 
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