Rate the better year at QB: Stanzi as a Senior / JVB as a Junior?

David79 said:
"Or you got, or you ain't" Ricky Stanzi had it and JVB doesn't. Stanzi improved against better teams. JVB gets worse.

NFL Draft Picks 2011 - Ricky Stanzi the Best QB in the 2011 NFL Draft? - Fantasy Football 2011

"Stanzi had 3 major tests in conference in 2010, a Big-10 Conference in which Stanzi has started for 3 seasons...and these teams have a book on him. Facing Wisconsin (11-2), Michigan State (11-2) and Ohio State (12-1), Stanzi put up the following stats:
  • 7 Passing TDs and NO Interceptions
  • The elite QBs of the NFL threw for between 15-19 Pass Attempts per Passing TD in "key" games, and some QBs hit as low (good) as 10-12 Pass Attempts per Passing TD. Stanzi averaged a very low (good) 11.9 Passing TDs per Pass Attempts in these 3 big matchups
  • Besides a stellar/perfect NO interceptions in these big 3 games, Stanzi hit on a 67.4% Completion Percentage as well
Iowa/Stanzi played the Arizona Wildcats this season, coached by defensive guru Mike Stoops. Stoops/Arizona only allowed two QBs to throw for 3+ TDs in a game against them this season -- not Andrew Luck (he had 2), but it was Oregon's Darron Thomas and yes...Ricky Stanzi.

Better than Gabbert in the 2010 Bowl Game vs. Missouri?
This may be crazy talk too, but hang with me...
Stanzi statistically bombed in one game in 2010 -- the Insight Bowl Game matchup against Missouri. Stanzi had no TDs and 2 INTs. Stanzi's only 2 INT game of the season. In that game Blaine Gabbert had 434 yards passing and won the hearts of everyone who just watched the game from a stat tally perspective. But was Gabbert really the better QB that day?
434 yards for Gabbert is awesome, but it was on 57 Pass Attempts. Stanzi only had 21 pass attempts in this game, in part because Iowa RB Marcus Coker had 33 carries for 219 yards. Why pass if you can run all over Mizzu, and win (which Iowa did)? Looking at the passing productivity by breaking it down to the view from the per passing attempts...a quick look at Gabbert vs. Stanzi in the Bowl Game from a different perspective:
  • Yards per Pass Attempt = 7.6 for Gabbert, 9.5 for Stanzi
  • Yards per Completion = 10.6 for Gabbert, 18.2 for Stanzi
If both QBs equally had 35 pass attempts at their above pace, Gabbert would have thrown for 266 yards to Stanzi's 332.
Not to say Stanzi had a great game...because it was his worst game of 2010. It's to point out that looking only at the totals -- Stanzi vs. Gabbert total stats in this game would have made Stanzi forgettable and Gabbert brilliant, but it really had to do more with Pass Attempt totals. Stanzi wasn't as bad as it seemed, and Gabbert wasn't near as impressive as his 434 yards would show. Gabbert also threw 2 INTs as well in this game (like Stanzi), and 1 TD."
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Seriously...Stanzi better than Gabbert that night. You just lost all credibility. Stanzi was 4-11 in the second half late with two Interceptions. Take away the gift short throw to our TE to seal the game and he did absolutely nothing in the second half but hurt his team. Gabbert was as good a QB that night as I saw that entire year...he made one big mistake and Hyde made him pay. The other interception was a great play by Prater with the deflection. He was incredible. Stanzi didn't even belong on the same field.
 
TheOracle said:
All its going to take for the JVB haters to completely change their tune is for the upcoming D to get it together and for a running game to emerge this season and this won't even be a question.
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No one is "hating" on JVB. Were all Iowa fans for the most part. Some people just prefer Ricky to James.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Come on guys, at least a couple of people get it. Defense matters in a huge way. Do you think in 2009, the Orange Bowl year, that if we didn't have that defense, Stanzi wouldn't have been ridden out of town. He kept UNI in it, he kept Ark. State in it, he single handedly kept Indiana in it, Michigan pick six, Arizona pick six, GT pick six...he threw 15 interceptions, but because he had a great defense that bailed him out time and time again, all everyone remembers is "love it or leave it, USA all the way.". That defense was top 5 in the country.

And he had a much better cast of receivers...2010, Moaki, DJK, McNutt...add the year before Brodell (sorry, meant Terry Stross :) and Brandon Myers...JVB had McNutt sure, but no Myers or Moaki or anyone even approaching DJK level on the other side.

When you really look at the QB's, the measuring stick is pretty damn close over the past few years...yet everyone remembers Stanzi as the leader, the winner. Well, if he had had last year's defense those years...he'd be a big time loser.
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So in other words, one could make the case Chuck Long was not as good as JVB? Long had Larry Station and a host of others on the D side of the ball, after all.

FORGET the respective defenses, already. Nobody is "bagging" on JVB. He's only had one full season as a starter, and frankly, it's what he lost on offense as much as what was lost on D. But if we choose THAT road, would Stanzi have needed to throw much, and thus lowered INT risks big-time, if Shonn Greene had stayed? If people want to use defenses as an "argument", me using the early departure of SG SHOULD end the thread. Except...it's too damned fun NOT to keep it going!

They are/were both fine QBs. Being named the starter pretty much confirms that. JVB couldn't beat out Stanzi (nor should that have been expected), and Stanzi was half-thrust into the role because of the unrealized expectations from JC. Thus, two different dynamics to start.

Each season has different variables, too many to make valid QB comparisons on a year-to-year basis. Would you NOT want Stanzi QB-ing in almost any season? Or JVB? We would be fine with either one.

I got on JVB a bit last season, but think how bad the season could have been if he had gotten hurt.
 
I love it when people say that Stanzi "wins more games" than JVB. Yes, the QB is a big part of the team's success and QB is arguably the most important position on the entire team, but it's a TEAM sport, and Stanzi played on much better TEAMS than has JVB so far.

You can't just look at a QB's W/L record (again, wins and losses are a team stat, not an individual stat) to decide who is better.

Personally, I think this question might be easier to answer after the 2012 season. We've only got 1 full season of play from JVB to compare to 3 years that we saw Stanzi in.

At this point, I'm hard pressed to say that JVB is a better QB than Stanzi, but if JVB has another year similar to last season or better I think a good argument can be made.
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Seriously...Stanzi better than Gabbert that night. You just lost all credibility. Stanzi was 4-11 in the second half late with two Interceptions. Take away the gift short throw to our TE to seal the game and he did absolutely nothing in the second half but hurt his team. Gabbert was as good a QB that night as I saw that entire year...he made one big mistake and Hyde made him pay. The other interception was a great play by Prater with the deflection. He was incredible. Stanzi didn't even belong on the same field.
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It wasn't me that wrote it, it was a draft guy who analyzes statistics to predict NFL success. that is why it is in quotes. But you can't argue with the analysis that Stanzi had a better YPC and the numbers were skewed because of how many pass attempts Gabbert had compared to Stanzi. They both had two interceptions. And they guy even says it was Stanzi's worst game of the year.

And Stanzi did not have a better wrs comparing junior years. Ill take McNutt as a senior over DJK as a Junior and Davis as a Junior was better than McNutt as a first year wide receiver plus KMM is a better third wide receiver than Stanzi had. Now TE that is a clear cut advantage for Stanzi. But I wouldn't say the backs were better than coker was last year.
 
People have been hating on JVB, so the post was to draw some comparisons to Stanzi and put into light that, if you use wins, defense matters. Put the 2009 defense with last years offense and it's a BCS team in all likelihood. We beat ISU, Minny, Penn State, and most likely Nebraska as they would have forced Martinez to throw the ball, and it's over when that happens. How would people view JVB then?
 
I am going to try and hold off on this debate until JVB's body of work is complete. I want to see if CJ can turn the corner and become a viable weapon.

Stanzi had Reisner/Moeaki/Meyer to do a LOT of the underneath stuff that JVB simply hasn't had. Even when Iowa tried to run Mcnutt/Davis underneath they dropped a ton of passes.

Think about all times on those the 3rd and 4(s) the TE baled out Stanzi. The simple little waggle play that sealed the deal in the insight bowl. JVB can't do any of that because the TE has been non-existent.
 
How can you not take the defense into account? Like someone said, shorter fields, protecting leads, not allowing the offense to get pinned deep, the list goes on.... The receivers last year had a TON of drops also. Many many more drops than bad throws even.
 
I do not understand all of the JVB haters. JVB>Stanzi. If you know anything about football it is not hard to see at all. Just go back and look at games and compare them both as first year starters. Even with Greene Stanzi threw what 15-16 pick and people want to argue that JVB panics. Hey Stanzi gave us some great moments MSU was awesome, but the call was better than the throw, McNutt was wide open on a defensless corner with no safety help. Seriously give JVB the same defense and running game as Stanzi had his Junior year and lets see who looks better. For the fans trying to compare apple to oranges here if you put Stanzi on last years team we probably don't go to a bowl, he simply made critical mistakes at inopportune times. I do think Stanzi was a great hawkeye, but lets not anoint him as one of the greatest, because it is just no the case.
 
Hawkcrush said:
I do not understand all of the JVB haters. JVB>Stanzi. If you know anything about football it is not hard to see at all. Just go back and look at games and compare them both as first year starters. Even with Greene Stanzi threw what 15-16 pick and people want to argue that JVB panics. Hey Stanzi gave us some great moments MSU was awesome, but the call was better than the throw, McNutt was wide open on a defensless corner with no safety help. Seriously give JVB the same defense and running game as Stanzi had his Junior year and lets see who looks better. For the fans trying to compare apple to oranges here if you put Stanzi on last years team we probably don't go to a bowl, he simply made critical mistakes at inopportune times. I do think Stanzi was a great hawkeye, but lets not anoint him as one of the greatest, because it is just no the case.
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^^Totally clueless.^^

I have to question if you've ever watched football before? Stanzi's running game his jr yr.? Stanzi was our offense in 2009. JVB has been terrible on the road. 2009 would have been a frickin disaster with that schedule. Keep in mind Stanzi won every game he started and finished that year. Every game.

Also, do the comparative schedules matter at all here? Stanzi never had a schedule as soft as JVB will have both years. Even with the soft schedule, JVB put up all his big numbers against the softest of the soft.

This whole thread is full of crazy talk. JVB can't throw on the run or on PA. That's a pretty critical skill in a pro-style offense. JVB has pretty much destroyed inferior competition and gotten eaten alive by good competition. Stanzi more than held is own against the best. JVB's going to need to make a HUGE jump if he wants to make a team at the next level, which is where Stanzi's currently collecting paychecks.

Through his JVB's jr. year, it's not even close. I'm hopeful he really improves, but at this point, this whole thread reeks of hope over reality.
 
hawkfan340 said:
^^Totally clueless.^^

I have to question if you've ever watched football before? Stanzi's running game his jr yr.? Stanzi was our offense in 2009. JVB has been terrible on the road. 2009 would have been a frickin disaster with that schedule. Keep in mind Stanzi won every game he started and finished that year. Every game.

Also, do the comparative schedules matter at all here? Stanzi never had a schedule as soft as JVB will have both years. Even with the soft schedule, JVB put up all his big numbers against the softest of the soft.

This whole thread is full of crazy talk. JVB can't throw on the run or on PA. That's a pretty critical skill in a pro-style offense. JVB has pretty much destroyed inferior competition and gotten eaten alive by good competition. Stanzi more than held is own against the best. JVB's going to need to make a HUGE jump if he wants to make a team at the next level, which is where Stanzi's currently collecting paychecks.

Through his JVB's jr. year, it's not even close. I'm hopeful he really improves, but at this point, this whole thread reeks of hope over reality.
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Says you.....
 
hawkfan340 said:
^^Totally clueless.^^

I have to question if you've ever watched football before? Stanzi's running game his jr yr.? Stanzi was our offense in 2009. JVB has been terrible on the road. 2009 would have been a frickin disaster with that schedule. Keep in mind Stanzi won every game he started and finished that year. Every game.

Also, do the comparative schedules matter at all here? Stanzi never had a schedule as soft as JVB will have both years. Even with the soft schedule, JVB put up all his big numbers against the softest of the soft.

This whole thread is full of crazy talk. JVB can't throw on the run or on PA. That's a pretty critical skill in a pro-style offense. JVB has pretty much destroyed inferior competition and gotten eaten alive by good competition. Stanzi more than held is own against the best. JVB's going to need to make a HUGE jump if he wants to make a team at the next level, which is where Stanzi's currently collecting paychecks.

Stanzi was our offense in 2009? I believe a couple of freshmen running backs stepped up pretty big that year and DJK had a pretty good year, right? In 2009, if Stanzi didn't have that defense, we would have been .500 at best. The guy made so many mistakes it was crazy. Remember UNI, Ark. State, Arizona, Indiana...he could have single handedly lost those games. That defense saved his butt time and time again. RS made great plays when he had to that year...no question. The reason he had a chance to make those plays was because his TOP 5 defense kept him in the game. He led the country in interceptions and pick sixes for christ's sake.

Through his JVB's jr. year, it's not even close. I'm hopeful he really improves, but at this point, this whole thread reeks of hope over reality.
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Stanzi had the better defense. That said, Iowa's defense wasn't flawless. Stanzi has shown more leadership, has won more games when the team was behind, than JVB. IMO, if you have the need to compare QBs after 1 season with JVB as QB, this is the significant fact.
 
Neither...I just don't understand people being down on JVB after what he accomplished last year. I think he had a pretty damn good year, but people blame him for the losses to the best teams on the schedule and hate on him. I agree, these comparisons or discussions will be more complete when next year is in the books and JVB has his opportunity to improve the areas where he hasn't performed well...ie under pressure, etc.

People's memories of Stanzi are clouded by the fact that the defenses he happened to play with were of huge benefit to him...huge. Put either the 2009 or 2010 defense with JVB, and the analysis of his performance last year would be much different. There is no way ISU, Minn, or Penn State beat us...and we would have probably beaten Nebraska.
 
hawkfan340 said:
^^Totally clueless.^^

I have to question if you've ever watched football before? Stanzi's running game his jr yr.? Stanzi was our offense in 2009. JVB has been terrible on the road. 2009 would have been a frickin disaster with that schedule. Keep in mind Stanzi won every game he started and finished that year. Every game.

Also, do the comparative schedules matter at all here? Stanzi never had a schedule as soft as JVB will have both years. Even with the soft schedule, JVB put up all his big numbers against the softest of the soft.

This whole thread is full of crazy talk. JVB can't throw on the run or on PA. That's a pretty critical skill in a pro-style offense. JVB has pretty much destroyed inferior competition and gotten eaten alive by good competition. Stanzi more than held is own against the best. JVB's going to need to make a HUGE jump if he wants to make a team at the next level, which is where Stanzi's currently collecting paychecks.

Through his JVB's jr. year, it's not even close. I'm hopeful he really improves, but at this point, this whole thread reeks of hope over reality.
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$$$$$$$
 
WinOneThisCentury said:
Neither...I just don't understand people being down on JVB after what he accomplished last year. I think he had a pretty damn good year, but people blame him for the losses to the best teams on the schedule and hate on him. I agree, these comparisons or discussions will be more complete when next year is in the books and JVB has his opportunity to improve the areas where he hasn't performed well...ie under pressure, etc.

People's memories of Stanzi are clouded by the fact that the defenses he happened to play with were of huge benefit to him...huge. Put either the 2009 or 2010 defense with JVB, and the analysis of his performance last year would be much different. There is no way ISU, Minn, or Penn State beat us...and we would have probably beaten Nebraska.
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Stanzi hater and a JVB lover...
 
hawkfan340 said:
^^Totally clueless.^^

I have to question if you've ever watched football before? Stanzi's running game his jr yr.? Stanzi was our offense in 2009. JVB has been terrible on the road. 2009 would have been a frickin disaster with that schedule. Keep in mind Stanzi won every game he started and finished that year. Every game.

Also, do the comparative schedules matter at all here? Stanzi never had a schedule as soft as JVB will have both years. Even with the soft schedule, JVB put up all his big numbers against the softest of the soft.

This whole thread is full of crazy talk. JVB can't throw on the run or on PA. That's a pretty critical skill in a pro-style offense. JVB has pretty much destroyed inferior competition and gotten eaten alive by good competition. Stanzi more than held is own against the best. JVB's going to need to make a HUGE jump if he wants to make a team at the next level, which is where Stanzi's currently collecting paychecks.

Through his JVB's jr. year, it's not even close. I'm hopeful he really improves, but at this point, this whole thread reeks of hope over reality.
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As long as you don't let things like facts come into the comparison your opinion is 100% correct. So the interceptions at the end of games like NW from Stanzi are on who then? Look at facts not the clouded memmories, 7-5 with that defense was a disaster. I'm not sure how you don't take into account the entire team and simply look at wins and losses. So in those terms then John Elway was a terrible Qb for a long time although in reality he was the only reason Denver won any games. We will see when JVB is drafted higher than Stanzi I guess, unless that doesn't matter either.
 
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