Rank our 5 current head coaches

[Northside Hawk]

This is a great idea. Should've put in the other coaches as well or had them separate. I'll rank mine when I get the chance.

Bump Elliott had some whiffs early in his tenure.

Then he got it right.

Hayden told the story of how Bump pulled him aside at a reception at President Boyd's house when Hayden was hired and Bump told Hayden he would be his last coaching hire. Because Bump believed if Hayden didn't make it, neither would he.

Note: Iowa Presidents, like Wisconsin's, were not big athletic fans in those days. Had no idea how much revenue and exposure athletics could bring in.

Hayden and Lute had to do much more than coach in those days. They had to change culture and upgrade facilities. Despite some baskeballl success in the 1950's and in 1970, the facilities were outdated and antiquidated and everyone at the University knew it. A special few actually did something about it. Remember this was the 1970's, and half the teams in the league had just opened new basketball arenas.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

Lol. Womens' basketball is definitely a "niche sport" and less popular than wrestling.

And what does being a so-called niche sport have to do with being the best coach?

Are we ranking the popularity of sports or how effective the coach is and how they run their program? I think it's the coaches. To counter your point, I mean college baseball is not the first sport that comes to mind for most college fans. You and some other fans really like baseball and it's important to you, but not to most college fans.


Right now
1) Bluder
2) Heller
3) Brands
4) Ferentz
5) McCaffery

And I could easily flip #4 and #5. Ferentz gets the nod because the program knows how they are, and he has the program that brings in most the $$$$.

 

[Fryowa]

Are we ranking the popularity of sports or how effective the coach is and how they run their program? I think it's the coaches. To counter your point, I mean college baseball is not the first sport that comes to mind for most college fans. You and some other fans really like baseball and it's important to you, but not to most college fans.


Right now
1) Bluder
2) Heller
3) Brands
4) Ferentz
5) McCaffery

And I could easily flip #4 and #5. Ferentz gets the nod because the program knows how they are, and he has the program that brings in most the $$$$.

That wasn't about ranking coaches, he said Iowa wrestling is a niche sport. It's clearly not. Women's basketball most definitely is.

 

[PCHawk]

Maybe Brock Harding can become a men's Caitlin Clark. Dominate college but also stay 4 years because he's not NBA material. I think if Fran got a player like Clark and had the benefit of him dominating as a freshman and also staying 4 years, he would have similar success to Bluder.

 

[MelroseHawkins]

That wasn't about ranking coaches, he said Iowa wrestling is a niche sport. It's clearly not. Women's basketball most definitely is.

I guess what is one's definition of a niche sport? That is the confusion. Many see wrestling as a niche sport I think. I mean women's basketball is prob pretty equal as far as interest, merely due to pure numbers, but many more tune in to the women's NCAA tournament than the NCAA wrestling championships.

We are kind of in a bubble in the midwest with wrestling and we get it, but not so much in the south or either coasts. Pennsylvania is another bubble and there are some others, but the vast majority in the US don't really follow wrestling. Does that make it niche?

 

[PCHawk]

I'd put Heller at number 1. I think the difference between where Iowa baseball has been without him and where it is with him puts him above everyone else.

I'd put Brands at number 2. The Gable years are long gone. So to keep Iowa at the top for that long is tough to do. The only reason he's not all the way at the top is because there is another Gable type coach out there now. Having a coach that can't keep up with the situation Penn State wrestling is in right now isn't even close to a good enough reason to drop him below any of the other three coaches because there isn't a coach on the planet that could get us past Penn State right now.

The other three are all very similar. They all probably have Iowa at slightly to just above slightly better than they would be with an average coach. That's over the course of their time here. I'm going to put Bluder at number 3 tho because I think she got the ball rolling with Gustafson and Clark back to back, and I dont think it's going to let up after Clark is gone.

I'll put Kirk and Fran at a tie for 4th. They both are elite at parts of their job and terrible at other parts of it. That's a recipe for exactly what they've given us. Competitive teams and competitive years. But rarely anything great.

 

[PCHawk]

Interestingly enough, if I made a list of how disappointed I'd be if a coach left it would be the exact opposite of the list I just made, based on a combination of how much I care about the sport and how easily I think a coach could be replaced.

I think Heller would be the hardest to replace, but I could hardly care any less about baseball so I'd be fine with it. Brands would be the easiest to replace because we could pretty much have the pick of the litter. Bluder would be hard to replace but I wouldn't be devastated if woman's basketball started sucking. Ferentz would be 50/50 at finding someone better or the same. But watching football games has been brutal lately. Fran leaving would be most upsetting. The odds of finding someone better or the same are basically the same as Ferentz. But I enjoy watching the games with Fran's style so much more than Kirk's.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Lol. There are like 350 D1 women's basketball teams vs. 75 men's wrestling programs. If somebody starts breaking down hockey coaches too I am outta here.

This is a false dichotomy. Yes there are 350 programs, but how many can actually win a natty? The Women's March Madness is one of the more predictable championships given the number of contenders. There are rarely cinderallas and it is usually all 1 and 2 seeds. Women's talent is much more concentrated in a few programs. I bet there are only 15 women's programs that realistically have a shot at a nattie any given season. The fact that Bluder has built Iowa into one of those teams, and done so really from ground zero, is impressive. Very proud of her.

Wrestling has fewer programs, but it is even more concentrated. Penn State, Iowa, Oklahoma, Iowa State maybe a few more. I bet there are less than 10 programs that have a realistic shot at a nattie given Penn State and Iowa's dominance. The fact that Brands has built Iowa into one of those handful of teams is impressive. He is a legend.

Football may be the worst of all. 4 or 5 teams out of the SEC, OSU, Clemson, Okie, maybe USC. Iowa is clearly not one of those teams. Hell, I don't think KF even tries to pretend that we could be. Iowa is looking over the fence at those teams.

Fran and Heller could both put together a couple great classes, get hot at the end of the season and compete for a title. That would not be unusual for the sports. But, neither has. Neither has made it to even the Sweet 16 or Supers.

If Bluder wins a title this year, she goes to the top for me, but as it sits now, given what Brands has done on a national stage in a sport dominated by blue bloods, I go:

Brands
Bluder
KF
Heller/Fran

 

[99topdawg]

From 1983...rank the coaches on campus

Fry
Gable
Lute
Patton (swimming, B1G champs)
C. Vivian Stringer
Gene Banks (baseball)

Good luck

I was 9 in 1983 so...

Gable
Fry
Banks
Lute
Stringer

Don't know enough about Patton to rank.

 

[Dadman]

1) Brands
2) Bluder
3) Heller
4) Ferentz
5) McCaffery

ranking should be 1- 3 tied
#2- Ferents and McCaffery

criteria- are we going somewhere after conference or not?

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Okie doke. Now explain how wrestling has sold out every season ticket for two years straight, and women’s basketball has to have curtains come down half the time from the ceiling covering seats. How about TV ratings? Revenue? All higher with wrestling, but at Iowa it’s just a “niche,” right?

I'm just busting your balls and felt like being snarky. I called it a regional/niche sport. I know the rasslin' crowd always get fired up about that. It's super popular at Iowa and a few other places, but that sort of proves my point.

I just looked it up. The NCAA wresting championships drew like 600,000 people on TV.

Iowa-Louisville 9 (a regional game between only two teams) drew 4 times that number at 2.5 million.

A ton more high school athletes play girls basketball than wrestle. There are way more college programs fighting for those kids.

My overall point about Bluder vs. Brands is that being the head wrestling coach at Iowa is like being born somewhere between third base and home. He's a good coach - it's a weird convo anyway.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

This is damn near impossible to do...especially without clearly defined criteria. Seems like we all agree on one thing, Fran is last.

Brands- can't argue with the record 4x National Champs
Bluder - Final Four (timing is everything).668 win % is impressive and this is her 4th Sweet 16.
Ferentz - long term body of work, despite his flaws. (that said he's trending down)
Heller - Should be higher but no "wow" on his resume (yet). But recruiting baseball here is no small task.
McCaffery - always good but never great.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

This coaching comparison (and specifically Fran coming in below Bluder on most every measure) has to make one wonder whether there's any program envy between the men and women. Considering that, I recalled an interaction I happened to see between CC and the McCaffery boys last fall on a football weekend. In chatting with my buddy who was also there...he had the same take.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

This coaching comparison (and specifically Fran coming in below Bluder on most every measure) has to make one wonder whether there's any program envy between the men and women. Considering that, I recalled an interaction I happened to see between CC and the McCaffery boys last fall on a football weekend. In chatting with my buddy who was also there...he had the same take.

Go on.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

Go on.

Probably shouldn't read too much into it, college kids are just that. I'll PM you.

 

[PCHawk]

Anyone see Wisconsin didn't score a point in the last 9 minutes of their NIT game to lose by 2? That's funny shit right there.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

This is damn near impossible to do...especially without clearly defined criteria. Seems like we all agree on one thing, Fran is last.

Brands- can't argue with the record 4x National Champs
Bluder - Final Four (timing is everything).668 win % is impressive and this is her 4th Sweet 16.
Ferentz - long term body of work, despite his flaws. (that said he's trending down)
Heller - Should be higher but no "wow" on his resume (yet). But recruiting baseball here is no small task.
McCaffery - always good but never great.

I don't view KF as trending down, if we measure a coach's success by wins and losses, which most people do. Ugly wins with no offense because of your untalented son still count as wins.

Since 2015ish Iowa football is on a historically good run of consistently good football. Over the last couple years, Iowa was excellent during the shortened COVID year, then won ten games and the West, and then won 8 last year after duffing it against Nebbie. Now, if Iowa only wins 7 games this year, you could fairly call that a negative trend. But, with the schedule and returning players, 7 would shock me.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

This coaching comparison (and specifically Fran coming in below Bluder on most every measure) has to make one wonder whether there's any program envy between the men and women. Considering that, I recalled an interaction I happened to see between CC and the McCaffery boys last fall on a football weekend. In chatting with my buddy who was also there...he had the same take.

I cannot imagine why Fran would not be happy for Bluder's success. A rising tide lifts all boats. If anything, Lisa should be pissed that Fran makes over double her salary, but that is what it is. Both are actually underpaid.

I have seen both McCaffrey boys at the women's games as fans.

Just because Fran is ranked last in this little exercise does not mean anything. He is still a very good coach. Rather it speaks to the quality of coaches Iowa has in its major sports. We are fortunate and should remember that more often.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I don't view KF as trending down, if we measure a coach's success by wins and losses, which most people do. Ugly wins with no offense because of your untalented son still count as wins.

Since 2015ish Iowa football is on a historically good run of consistently good football. Over the last couple years, Iowa was excellent during the shortened COVID year, then won ten games and the West, and then won 8 last year after duffing it against Nebbie. Now, if Iowa only wins 7 games this year, you could fairly call that a negative trend. But, with the schedule and returning players, 7 would shock me.

KFz not trending down in comparison to Bluder, Heller and Brands. The football program is solid, but doesn't seem to have the "juice" that it used to. The last couple of years (in spite of the W/L record) the offensive struggles have been a bit embarrasing...especially with the nepotism angle. Seems to have taken some of the shine off. Perhaps trending down in the fan's eyes.

Like I said, this exercise is nearly impossible to do...you could put them in almost any order depending on how you analyze it.

 

[hawkdrummer1]

I cannot imagine why Fran would not be happy for Bluder's success. A rising tide lifts all boats. If anything, Lisa should be pissed that Fran makes over double her salary, but that is what it is. Both are actually underpaid.

I have seen both McCaffrey boys at the women's games as fans.

Just because Fran is ranked last in this little exercise does not mean anything. He is still a very good coach. Rather it speaks to the quality of coaches Iowa has in its major sports. We are fortunate and should remember that more often.

Agreed. But we're dealing with 18-23 year olds. If it can happen within a team (and we know it can) it could happen between teams. The hoopsters and wrestlers had plenty of dust ups in the 80s. What I observed may have been a one off or just "kids" talking trash innocently. Who knows? Coaches and players are smart enough to put on a good face when they're "on camera", they're all trained to do it.

As for the rising tide metaphor...it's an imperfect one. Great football programs don't necessarily help basketball and great womens/men's basketball doesn't necessarily help the other program. I get what you're saying though...a winning brand and image is good for everyone. No doubt.