HawkeyeHypnosis
Well-Known Member
Woody fits this system just fine. Wish we would play Basabe and Woody together. With Uthoff next year and Woody gaining the experience from this year, things will open up. He runs the floor well and is solid on D.
Poor player development or recruiting
- Thread starter tednugentfan
- Start date
tednugentfan
Banned
To set the record straight, I despise the Cyclones and am not a troll. I have attended probably 20-25 Iowa games since McCaffrey arrived, which is a hell of a lot more than many of you self-professed black and gold zealots who think Iowa can do no wrong. So tell me how we get better next season? Which players are going to step their games up? Is the bar set at beating Nebraska and Penn State? We will not sweep Nebraska and I assure you that Miles will not screw around with marginally athletic guys, but will get long, quick athletes (see Shields, Gallegos and Benny Watson). To be clear, I like McCaffrey, his passion, style and intensity, but am not sold the guy gets it on the recruiting front. Look at the difference Basabe makes on both ends when he is in the game and imagine a couple more guys with his skills. Not every diamond in the rough is going to turn into Aaron White and there is a reason guys only had offers from Eastern Michigan, etc.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
To answer your more in depth question about diamonds in the rough, you don't have to find a ton of diamonds in the rough like you do in football. See Basabe in his first month, see Aaron White in his first year, and see Clemmons in his second year. Now if the top 150, 100, and 50 kids play like they were ranked, then we got sometime.
You are just jumping the gun on this one Nuge. Next year was always going to be the year that things come together. Woodbury, Gesell, and Clemmons have a years experience, and Marble, Basabe are SR, and White is a JR. Slide out a nice hustle guy like May and replace him with Uthoff and Jok.
Things aren't peaches and cream right now, but it is developing. Couple that with the fact that every night is a war in the BIG, and there will be bumps in the road. I still hold out hopes we get to 9 or 10 BIG wins and are in the NCAA conversation at least.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
The fact that Fran talked any decent basketball player into coming here after the mess Lick left is incredible. When they first hired Fran I was not sold on him at all but looking at how far the program has come is impressive. The biggest jump we will see with this program is when these freshman turn into sophomores. This team has talent and that is proven by these past 2 games, any team that can shoot as badly as Iowa has on the road and still have a chance to win was unbelievable. If all they have to do is take a few more practice shots on the road or just get used to playing in these hostile environments then this team is going to be really good.
Between him and Jok, Iowa should be a way better shooting team.
My biggest question with this staff used to be defense...but they have improved there and I think that will continue. Offensively I have questions in the half court and it happens to be with the post players. It seems like none of them have really developed as low post players.
1) white is our best player between our 4/5 spots. He was thought (by some...mainly herby) to develop an outside game and possibly be a 3. That hasn't happened in either respect. But couple that with no low post moves and all he is is a guy who runs the floor great, drives with no pull up shot and rebounds. He needs a go to post move and it hasn't happened. He is a soph and has time but I am not too optimistic because he seems more content on trying to shoot 3s when that is definitely not part of his game.
2) basabe is our second best 4/5 guy. He has developed a 12-15 ft shot but still has basically no low post moves. He is basically a lower version of white with a better midrange shot.
3) mccabe is either our 3rd or 4th best post guy depending on where you rank woodbury. I give the edge to woodbury. Mccabe is limited athletically and really seems just to muscle his way downlow. But he does have a few ok moves. That is more of a necessity for him because he isn't as athletic as the other posts.
4) woodbury has the hook shot but that seems to be it right now. And other teams have figured out to push him off his spot and he typically leaves it short with his lack of strength. He has the most upside for post moves when you factor in his height and touch.
5) olaseni has the least low post moves and that is because he has played the least bball.
Meyer and uthoff could add more but we don't know. Uthoff is more of a 3 or stretch 4 so he won't be in the post much. Meyer seems to be another version of white if the stories are true.
I just see a deficiency in the half court. We have to play outside-in and have to dribble way too much because we can't take advantage low with post moves to score and make defenses collapse on our posts. This doesn't have to be the focal point of the offense but it needs to be a weapon and I don't see it developing right now. At least when cole was around we had some one to score in the low post. It might be a guard dominated game but you still need a low post scoring threat.
1) white is our best player between our 4/5 spots. He was thought (by some...mainly herby) to develop an outside game and possibly be a 3. That hasn't happened in either respect. But couple that with no low post moves and all he is is a guy who runs the floor great, drives with no pull up shot and rebounds. He needs a go to post move and it hasn't happened. He is a soph and has time but I am not too optimistic because he seems more content on trying to shoot 3s when that is definitely not part of his game.
2) basabe is our second best 4/5 guy. He has developed a 12-15 ft shot but still has basically no low post moves. He is basically a lower version of white with a better midrange shot.
3) mccabe is either our 3rd or 4th best post guy depending on where you rank woodbury. I give the edge to woodbury. Mccabe is limited athletically and really seems just to muscle his way downlow. But he does have a few ok moves. That is more of a necessity for him because he isn't as athletic as the other posts.
4) woodbury has the hook shot but that seems to be it right now. And other teams have figured out to push him off his spot and he typically leaves it short with his lack of strength. He has the most upside for post moves when you factor in his height and touch.
5) olaseni has the least low post moves and that is because he has played the least bball.
Meyer and uthoff could add more but we don't know. Uthoff is more of a 3 or stretch 4 so he won't be in the post much. Meyer seems to be another version of white if the stories are true.
I just see a deficiency in the half court. We have to play outside-in and have to dribble way too much because we can't take advantage low with post moves to score and make defenses collapse on our posts. This doesn't have to be the focal point of the offense but it needs to be a weapon and I don't see it developing right now. At least when cole was around we had some one to score in the low post. It might be a guard dominated game but you still need a low post scoring threat.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
I think Basabe has developed alright in the post. He's gotten much more efficient when he gets the ball on the block and scores more consistently down there. In terms of true post players, Basabe is much better than White, IMO.
As for White, perhaps he hasn't developed any post moves because they spent the offseason hoping/preparing for him to be a 3.
As for White, perhaps he hasn't developed any post moves because they spent the offseason hoping/preparing for him to be a 3.
Agreed but I am not sold on the coaches ability to build a low post game/player. Maybe they will by the end of white's career or with woody but it is the main deficiency I am seeing with them now.
Basabe has improved but I don't see him having a dynamic low post move and that is the thing almost all good post players have a move they can always go to. For kareem it was the hook, for duncan it is a turn around jumper. We don't seem to have anyone that has a go to move in the post and if we had a more viable low post threat I think our 3 pt shots would be much better.
I
ILHawk
Guest
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
I guess I am not understanding the whole not being able to "develop" players here.
Here is the issue with every single one of Iowa's upperclassmen, they are by no means complete basketball players.
The younger kids that are contributors are more complete players already, but it takes time to see it on the court for some kids.
People harp on who Clemmons was offered by and that he was going to go to Eastern Michigan, but answer me this, is he a better player than Cartwright? I actually think so and keep in mind that Cartwright probably would have never been a starter if Payne hadn't gotten hurt and look at his numbers since he moved on.
The only thing Clemmons hasn't done, is bring a good game every night, he was awful at Purdue and he will bounce back, but the beauty is he will have three more year.
You can't judge Freshman/Sophomores after either 1.5 seasons, or 0.5 of a season and say they have or haven't developed.
People didn't expect White to do what he did last year, people took notice and Aaron isn't where he wants to be as a player, I am sure, but again he is a sophomore. Funny how people are so excited about Basabe this year compared to last year when his points and rebounds both are down again from last year.
Quit jumping on the players/coaches for their development, it is not justified at this point. Give it a couple more years before passing judgement. Looking at you tednugentfan.
When at a program like Iowa and not getting the top of the line talent year in and year out, it comes down to coaching and player development as Iowa is typically beaten on paper in most match-ups.
When I look at Iowa Marble/Basbe are the only real contributors in the Jr/Sr classes, even though May/McCabe can have some decent games, Marble/Basabe at least have shown the ability to be consistent. Basabe of late has, Marble of late hasn't, but they are still the best viable options from those two classes.
Now look at what you are left with. White/Olaseni the sophomores...not highly ranked, but White has looked really good at times and is for the most part consistent. Olaseni a project, but improving and will make some contributions the next two seasons. Oglesby...slump, will continue to not be a contributor this season unless he catches fire, probably not.
Then you look at 3 freshman, they have by no means embarrassed themselves this year, they are learning how to play in the Big Ten, if Iowa didn't have the three that are contributing, it would be very ugly. The good news is two are very highly thought of and another, if you just watch him play you can see that he has all the tools to be really good.
To early to judge plain and simple especially when the cupboard that Fran was left didn't even have crickets chirping in it.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
I definitely think we'll see Gabe begin to blossom as a junior and senior. He's still far from polished, but he's made some pretty big strides even over the last month or so. He couldn't hit the bunnies in the OOC schedule, but now he's starting to give the team at least respectable minutes on both ends. Probably never going to be a superstar, but he could prove to be a very valuable bench player in the future. Not many teams can bring a near-7 footer with his athleticism off the bench.
Section136
Well-Known Member
If only Herby was here to give us the stats on it. We will never know.
RocknRollface
Well-Known Member
I agree with everything you said except Basabe having no post moves. He does, he has a jump hook that works pretty well when hes single covered. Problem is he cant pass out of double teams.
aaronzuriel
Well-Known Member
I didn't bother to read anything by a tednugentfan and the "poor" player development or recruiting in the Iowa BB program.
I understand what trolling is and why bother to waste any time except to thank the OP and tell him goodbye.
PS Don't accidently shoot yourself.
I understand what trolling is and why bother to waste any time except to thank the OP and tell him goodbye.
PS Don't accidently shoot yourself.
Sparky
Well-Known Member
I know nothing about basketball...
But I do know you have no idea what you're talking about.
