Playoff Expansion

[Hawkfnntn]

As a young kid in the 80s I used to look forward to bowl season because it meant the roughly top 25 teams got to duke it out with each other.

Now I just laugh at it. 84 teams "make" bowl games now. It's a complete joke.

The goals of all the schools every year is a tiered system. There's like what 10 teams going into the year that think they have a chance at winning the championship? With 3-5 of them realistically being able to any given year or less.

Then you have the next tier trying to get into the best BCS bowls and win their divisions/conferences. Then after that just get into any bowls and make their schools money. Once it got to where 6 wins could get you in a bowl and as you'd mentioned early 40 some odd games it became a complete joke.

 

[Fryowa]

The 4 team playoff system was not broken.

Yes it is. It's never not been broken because the teams get picked based on opinion alone. the CFP committee = figure skating scores.

 

[ssckelley]

Yes it is. It's never not been broken because the teams get picked based on opinion alone. the CFP committee = figure skating scores.

It's crowned the best team in college football the NC, that's what it's supposed to do. It was not broken.

 

[Fryowa]

It's crowned the best team in college football the NC, that's what it's supposed to do. It was not broken.

Ahh, so the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. should just save the fans a bunch of trouble and move to 4 team playoffs chosen by the league offices, completely arbitrarily and without any set criteria, right? Cause they would be "crowning" the best teams and that's what the playoffs were designed to do.

 

[ssckelley]

The goals of all the schools every year is a tiered system. There's like what 10 teams going into the year that think they have a chance at winning the championship? With 3-5 of them realistically being able to any given year or less.

Then you have the next tier trying to get into the best BCS bowls and win their divisions/conferences. Then after that just get into any bowls and make their schools money. Once it got to where 6 wins could get you in a bowl and as you'd mentioned early 40 some odd games it became a complete joke.

Here is the beauty of having all those bowl games, you can pick and choose which ones you wanted to watch or didn't want to watch. If you didn't want to watch the Potato Bowl, that's fine, but I'm sure people from Nevada or New Orleans (Tulane) were.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I'm going to speculate that you've watched every bowl game Iowa has ever participated in regardless of what their record was.

I didn't watch the HawkSlayer Bowl. I went somewhere that morning and had it DVRd. Was driving home at halftime and my mom called and said "don't even bother because it will just ruin your day."

 

[Fryowa]

I'm going to speculate that you've watched every bowl game Iowa has ever participated in regardless of what their record was.

Was ice fishing with my boy during the Pinstripe Bowl. Had it recorded but never watched. Saw the highlights when we got back to our hotel room at Boji and that was good enough. I've never missed a regular season game in my life that I can remember but bowl games are during peak ice fishing season. I have the week between Xmas and NY off every year and I usually take my kid out for a week on the ice.

Would have stayed home that day if it were a NY6 (i.e. real) bowl game.

 

[ssckelley]

Ahh, so the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. should just save the fans a bunch of trouble and move to 4 team playoffs chosen by the league offices, completely arbitrarily and without any set criteria, right? Cause they would be "crowning" the best teams and that's what the playoffs were designed to do.

Professional sports are way different, it's not like they are replacing a bowl system that included a 4 team playoff. The Bowl system is what made college football unique. I'm not so sure watering down the playoff system in any of the sports has made it better but they do it for the money. College football is going to the playoff system for the money, and to appease the SEC.

If you want to go down the path in arguing each of these sports playoff system I'm game. I hated that MLB felt compelled to expand the playoffs to include extra wild cards, it has diluted the importance of winning a division crown in a 162 game season. I'm not a huge NBA fan, the teams that compete for the NBA championship seems to get predetermined in free agency. The NFL playoff system seems to work, I don't think a bowl system would have ever worked at the professional level.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Here is the beauty of having all those bowl games, you can pick and choose which ones you wanted to watch or didn't want to watch. If you didn't want to watch the Potato Bowl, that's fine, but I'm sure people from Nevada or New Orleans (Tulane) were.

Sure the schools are all slaves to it because most were in no position to turn down the money. And even if they didn't need it they still had no reason to not make more because what do they have better to do?

It's still not a great system to be having and could use improved upon

 

[ChosenChildren]

Bowl games matter to the kids playing in them. Every game "matters" to the player. If a player goes into a game not caring and not giving maximum effort, at this level he is going to get his head caved in.

Iowa's kids gave maximum effort in the last 3 bowl wins. If you play a ranked team, it matters a little more.

Obviously, the cherry now is to qualify for the playoffs, but bowls matter. I would equate them to a Non-conference game against a good Power 5 school. The players will play and the fans will watch.

 

[kicker22]

It's still dumb if decided by subjective, opinion-based popularity contests...I mean polls....

Bingo. So the over rated teams from P5 conferences that manage to dodge the legitimate cream of the crop in their conference will sneak in and the teams that play a competitive gauntlet will get left out.

 

[SmokeTownHawk]

For all the stats generated by a sport like football, to have a playoff committee determine who gets in is laughable. It needs to be a purely numbers game in choosing the teams. SOS should mean something. Beauty contests have no place in the decision-making.

 

[trj]

As a Iowa fan I think realistic expectations would be qualifying for the playoff once out of 3 years under a 12 team format. Based on recent history, under a 12 team format, Iowa is 1 out of 8, in the last 9 years. Not exactly the ratio you want moving forward.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Bingo. So the over rated teams from P5 conferences that manage to dodge the legitimate cream of the crop in their conference will sneak in and the teams that play a competitive gauntlet will get left out.

The only two conferences where this could be possible are the Big Ten and Pac 10. You can have a fluke year like 2015 where OSU gets excluded and someone from the West sneaks in. Same could happen in the Pac 10. In the ACC, you ain't getting an assist to get around Clemson or FSU (if they return to glory). In the Big 8 everyone plays each other. In the SEC, if you are in the West you have to play Bama. Say Auburn or LSU beats Bama, maybe a Georgia or Florida team that misses Bama will be able to backslide in on a mediocre SEC east schedule with a loss in the title game. But whatever, at the end of the day the two best SEC West teams are probably going to be really fvcking good and the SEC east champ is probably still a borderline top 12 team that would pisspound anyone in the Big Ten not named Ohio State. I mean let's face facts here, the SEC West, the state of Florida and the state of South Carolina have won something like 80 or 85% of nattys in the past 20 years with OSU and Texas being the only ones who can occasionally compete.

Hell, to be honest that is why even going to 12 is a joke. Missouri thought they had a legit team a few years ago because they beat up on a terrible SEC west and drew a shit crossover slate. But Bama put them in their place in the conference title game. Someone who gets shit trucked like that in the conference title game has nooooo business being in the playoff but they'll slide in.

 

[HuckFinn]

But their importance will go out the window. Imagine how thrilled the 13th team will be missing the playoffs but getting a bowl bid. Any player with a shot at the NFL will probably skip it. The cries over the 13/14th team missing the playoffs will eventually lead to more expansion, at some point it will be the FCS format.

Again, you don’t matter. If the kids want to play another game, I think that is great. This is about them, not us.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Again, you don’t matter. If the kids want to play another game, I think that is great. This is about them, not us.

Wrong. "The kids" who are going to the NFL are starting to dodge meaningless bowl games in large numbers. The bowl system merely exists to shake money out of fans. Most of this money is funneled out of the pockets of cable subscribers and into the pockets of Disney, the company that owns ESPN and ABC. It then finds its way into TV contracts for the bowl games.

You take out the TV money and the bowl games are gone. Money drives the system. Money comes from the cable subscribers and the fans who travel. The schools, while putatively non-profits, are not charities and irregardless of the wishes of "the kids" wouldn't attend bowls if they were a consistent cost center.

 

[kicker22]

The only two conferences where this could be possible are the Big Ten and Pac 10. You can have a fluke year like 2015 where OSU gets excluded and someone from the West sneaks in. Same could happen in the Pac 10. In the ACC, you ain't getting an assist to get around Clemson or FSU (if they return to glory). In the Big 8 everyone plays each other. In the SEC, if you are in the West you have to play Bama. Say Auburn or LSU beats Bama, maybe a Georgia or Florida team that misses Bama will be able to backslide in on a mediocre SEC east schedule with a loss in the title game. But whatever, at the end of the day the two best SEC West teams are probably going to be really fvcking good and the SEC east champ is probably still a borderline top 12 team that would pisspound anyone in the Big Ten not named Ohio State. I mean let's face facts here, the SEC West, the state of Florida and the state of South Carolina have won something like 80 or 85% of nattys in the past 20 years with OSU and Texas being the only ones who can occasionally compete.

Hell, to be honest that is why even going to 12 is a joke. Missouri thought they had a legit team a few years ago because they beat up on a terrible SEC west and drew a shit crossover slate. But Bama put them in their place in the conference title game. Someone who gets shit trucked like that in the conference title game has nooooo business being in the playoff but they'll slide in.

But the issue is that it still comes down to polls that are conference bias. The SEC is always going to get the benefit of the doubt. I'll agree that they deserve it at the top where they're head and shoulders above everyone else, but the middle teams and mediocre teams get way to much credit and that will definitely impact the tournament field. Same with the ACC where it's Clemson and then everyone else. You're right about FSU if they return to glory, but they got to get to that point first.

I just see it no different then now where you'll see conferences monopolizing the field while other conferences can't seem to get their foot in the door. I guess I see it as regardless of who get's in, at the end of the day there's only going to be 3-4 teams with a shot in hell at winning it. I'm just one of those people that feel that if you can't win your conference, let alone your division, you have absolutely no place in the mix at the end of the season. Unfortunately with human polls I think your going to see those 5-12 slots filled with a number of teams that have absolutely no business being there.

In my opinion, I'm one that would rather see a distinct laid out field made up solely of Conference (or even Division) winners rather than at large teams that didn't win anything and are only there because they're ranked in the top 10. I simply don't think the 3rd best team in the SEC should get an invite, because they play in a tough conference over a non Power 5 conference Champion. Regardless of how ugly things get in the playoffs.

 

[okeefe4prez]

But the issue is that it still comes down to polls that are conference bias. The SEC is always going to get the benefit of the doubt. I'll agree that they deserve it at the top where they're head and shoulders above everyone else, but the middle teams and mediocre teams get way to much credit and that will definitely impact the tournament field. Same with the ACC where it's Clemson and then everyone else. You're right about FSU if they return to glory, but they got to get to that point first.

I just see it no different then now where you'll see conferences monopolizing the field while other conferences can't seem to get their foot in the door. I guess I see it as regardless of who get's in, at the end of the day there's only going to be 3-4 teams with a shot in hell at winning it. I'm just one of those people that feel that if you can't win your conference, let alone your division, you have absolutely no place in the mix at the end of the season. Unfortunately with human polls I think your going to see those 5-12 slots filled with a number of teams that have absolutely no business being there.

In my opinion, I'm one that would rather see a distinct laid out field made up solely of Conference (or even Division) winners rather than at large teams that didn't win anything and are only there because they're ranked in the top 10. I simply don't think the 3rd best team in the SEC should get an invite, because they play in a tough conference over a non Power 5 conference Champion. Regardless of how ugly things get in the playoffs.

Bama won the title one year when they didn't win their division. In that year, they lost to Auburn which cost them a shot at the SEC title game and then went on to beat Clemson and Georgia for the title. There are some divisions, like the Big Ten West or the ACC Coastal where yeah, I'll probably agree with you that if Iowa goes 11-1 with a loss to 12-0 Wisconsin and a soft crossover schedule then fine, keep them out. But there are some divisions that have a few football powers where I can't necessarily say a loss should be an automatic out. The SEC West is the best conference in football with LSU, Auburn, Bama and A&M. The SEC East has Florida and Georgia up top. The ACC Coastal has Clemson and FSU. As a hypo, Alabama losing to Auburn on a 109 yard missed FG return shouldn't be a per se disqualifying loss. Clemson losing to a strong Florida State team in a 103 degree game in September shouldn't be a disqualifying loss. Same if OSU, UM and PSU end up in some awkward 3 way tie at 11-1. I'm all for a G5 team in there, but it has to be a solid team.

 

[kicker22]

Bama won the title one year when they didn't win their division. In that year, they lost to Auburn which cost them a shot at the SEC title game and then went on to beat Clemson and Georgia for the title. There are some divisions, like the Big Ten West or the ACC Coastal where yeah, I'll probably agree with you that if Iowa goes 11-1 with a loss to 12-0 Wisconsin and a soft crossover schedule then fine, keep them out. But there are some divisions that have a few football powers where I can't necessarily say a loss should be an automatic out. The SEC West is the best conference in football with LSU, Auburn, Bama and A&M. The SEC East has Florida and Georgia up top. The ACC Coastal has Clemson and FSU. As a hypo, Alabama losing to Auburn on a 109 yard missed FG return shouldn't be a per se disqualifying loss. Clemson losing to a strong Florida State team in a 103 degree game in September shouldn't be a disqualifying loss. Same if OSU, UM and PSU end up in some awkward 3 way tie at 11-1. I'm all for a G5 team in there, but it has to be a solid team.

I agree with you that Bama rightfully belonged and did prove themselves Champions that year and see where your coming from. My issue though is that every game should matter across the board, if say a conference championship loss eliminates a division champ from making the playoffs I don't see how a team could logically sneak in without even a division crown. Especially if they're using any type of rankings or polls to determine who's playoff worthy when those very same polls are bias.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I agree with you that Bama rightfully belonged and did prove themselves Champions that year and see where your coming from. My issue though is that every game should matter across the board, if say a conference championship loss eliminates a division champ from making the playoffs I don't see how a team could logically sneak in without even a division crown. Especially if they're using any type of rankings or polls to determine who's playoff worthy when those very same polls are bias.

The games do matter, but at the end of the day, when you have a division that has OSU, Michigan and PSU and another that has Bama, LSU and Auburn, there's a damned good chance that in certain years 3 of the best 10 teams are resident in those divisions. If you go to 12 teams, even if you let every G5 champ in along with every P5 champ you still have two open slots. And no way in hell can you tell me that some 9-4 G5 champ is better than an Alabama squad that loses to LSU on a fluke fumble and muffed snap on a punt.

I think there was a year where the Big 8 had a 3 way tie problem as well with Tejas, Tortilla Tech and Oklahoma. This thing will work those out. Hell, 2009 Iowa was a good example of a team that didn't win its conference that was still worthy of title consideration if we're talking top 12. If you have a QB go down to injury and drop a game or two because of it but the dude comes back, you shouldn't be totally DQed due to that one injury. That 2009 Iowa squad would have an outside chance in a playoff format.