Playing for next year

PCHawk said:
No. But as long as they understand positioning and get better at recognition, they will improve enough to be average on defense. Most importantly, they need to develop the mindset that every possession matters.
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Right? They play good defense at times, not often I'll admit, but they are capable of doing it, just not doing it often it seems. It's not like they play all 40 minutes of bad defense. It's not like they haven't had stretches were they play well, it's just not for any length of time. Like at the first line up change of every game at under 15, I just get prepared to go down by 10-12 points. Every game, it's like we can't seem to recognize that as a staff. That's why I think criticizing Fran's rotation, defensive fundamentals or in game coaching should be much critiqued over his recruiting or player development. Both of those things have been fairly solid considering where he started IMO.

It was almost like last night Fran was starting to realize he couldn't continue to play BE, Wagner and Kriener...then Cook got 2 fouls - calls went wrong and shit went sideways.
 
Hawk5656 said:
What Fran has been doing to Nunge the last few games is not only hurting us now but it's hurting us more for the future. This season is a lost cause, we need to be developing him for the future.
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But play him at the 4 right? Cause he was benched last night for his defense... period.
 
kicker22 said:
It's a down year because he failed he struck out recruiting the upperclassmen and failed to address key components needed to succeed? There's no excuse be it 4 years or 8 years into his tenure. I simply don't see why he needs more time to prove he struggles with recruiting certain positions and his teams don't seem to believe in playing defense.

What happens when we have the same problem next year and fail to make any changes the following year. Then we've lost everything we gained and are right back to square one. I'm not saying it's time to fire him immediately (although I definitely see him on the hot seat), but I simply don't see why it's acceptable period. He knows what it takes to win in this conference it's his responsibility (and job) to have those pieces put in place year in and year out. The recipe to success doesn't change.
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It's not acceptable any year, that's why we're pointing out that year 8 has nothing to do with it. He doesn't get a pass, but firing a guy who's been able to get Iowa back to where it's been, with having 4 straight All B1G players, with having NCAA appearances in the 3 of the last 4 seasons up to this one and with good classes in 16,17 and 18, it also doesn't mean we want him fired immediately. You have to look at all the factors when you say you want him gone. Up until 2 months ago - Fran was nothing but a success story at Iowa.

It is also really Fran's first step back and fail. If you thought he should be dancing last year or not, it was unlikely with the minutes they lost, and I personally think he did HIS BEST COACHING OF THIS TENURE LAST SEASON. Getting that team a game away from the dance was a pretty good job coaching.
 
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Biggest question for next year...will Wieskamp stay if Fran spends the year in the mental hospital, or is fired?
 
Hawk5656 said:
Nunge is a 4, he cannot play and defend the 3. It's ruining the kid's confidence and talking away valuable minutes for his future.
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100% ... and maybe he can develop into a 3, but he's not even on that planet right now. It's a gaf by the coach. I take issue with this way more Fran then the things that are getting thrown out. Nunge could be a player, Fran recognizes it but has him playing out of position.
 
PCHawk said:
I hate when people say this is unacceptable in year 8. This is a down year and down years are acceptable at a program like Iowa. It would be less acceptable if it was year 4. At least it came after a pretty decent 3 year run.
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Down years for a school like Iowa should be NIT berths and 15-20 or finishing around .500. This is a full blown tire fire with no one coming in to help put it out. Unless Fran kicks some of these guys to the curb and miraculously upgrades the talent with transfers/JuCo the program will continue it's descent the bottom of the conference.
 
InGoodCo said:
It's not acceptable any year, that's why we're pointing out that year 8 has nothing to do with it. He doesn't get a pass, but firing a guy who's been able to get Iowa back to where it's been, with having 4 straight All B1G players, with having NCAA appearances in the 3 of the last 4 seasons up to this one and with good classes in 16,17 and 18, it also doesn't mean we want him fired immediately. You have to look at all the factors when you say you want him gone. Up until 2 months ago - Fran was nothing but a success story at Iowa.

It is also really Fran's first step back and fail. If you thought he should be dancing last year or not, it was unlikely with the minutes they lost, and I personally think he did HIS BEST COACHING OF THIS TENURE LAST SEASON. Getting that team a game away from the dance was a pretty good job coaching.
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I totally understand that there's other factors to be considered before cutting the cord, which is why I said he's on the hot seat, but to say up until 2 months ago he was nothing but a success story may be deceptive. The writing on the wall was there that we struggled on the defensive end of the court, struggled to avoid turnovers, and had serious depth issues at the PG position going into the season. These aren't just coincidences and while it may or may not be time to start thinking about changes we need to focus on whether or not these concerns are being addressed.

I'm still not convinced that there's an answer at the PG spot, or whether we will ever play 40 minutes of team defense or fix the turnover bug. I'm also not convinced that you can have a team of perimeter minded players without playmakers capable of consistently penetrating to get easy baskets or to simply open things up outside. I'm not qualified to coach at the D1 level, but that said, with my untrained eye, I don't see changes being made to address these issues.
 
PCHawk said:
I hate when people say this is unacceptable in year 8. This is a down year and down years are acceptable at a program like Iowa. It would be less acceptable if it was year 4. At least it came after a pretty decent 3 year run.
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In my mind what we are seeing on the floor right now is not acceptable. Last year we were okay with the season due to the youth and the fact they they improved down the stretch.

Right now we are an absolute dumpster fire. We are competing for the B1G cellar with the likes of Rutgers and Illinois. We are getting the doors blown off us by average teams. The moment that is considered “acceptable” is the moment you basically accept mediocrity.

Now there is still time to improve and win some games, but if we don’t and we continue to play like we have the last 3 games, that’s completely unacceptable.
 
We were one of the first two teams out of the dance last year. We lost Jok,a good but not transformational player, and added Garza and Nunge. This just doesn't add up when we were one-two spots out of the dance last year,and are now a complete dumpster fire.

We haven't been blown out of any games yet. We lost by 18 last night but that was a close game until the final 6-7 minutes. The players and Fran just don't seem to be doing the little things they need to win. Perhaps they thought they were better than they really were since everyone thought they'd be at least a bubble team again. Perhaps they just haven't haven't worked quite hard enough to have success-at least as hard as most other teams have. I know they haven't worked hard enough, coaching and playing-wise on their defensive skills, relative to other programs.

You've been humbled now Fran and the players. You're not as great as you thought you were. Now get to work on the fundamentals and work a little bit harder.
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
We were one of the first two teams out of the dance last year. We lost Jok,a good but not transformational player, and added Garza and Nunge. This just doesn't add up when we were one-two spots out of the dance last year,and are now a complete dumpster fire.

We haven't been blown out of any games yet. We lost by 18 last night but that was a close game until the final 6-7 minutes. The players and Fran just don't seem to be doing the little things they need to win. Perhaps they thought they were better than they really were since everyone thought they'd be at least a bubble team again. Perhaps they just haven't haven't worked quite hard enough to have success-at least as hard as most other teams have. I know they haven't worked hard enough, coaching and playing-wise on their defensive skills, relative to other programs.

You've been humbled now Fran and the players. You're not as great as you thought you were. Now get to work on the fundamentals and work a little bit harder.
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You sure about that?
 
kicker22 said:
I totally understand that there's other factors to be considered before cutting the cord, which is why I said he's on the hot seat, but to say up until 2 months ago he was nothing but a success story may be deceptive. The writing on the wall was there that we struggled on the defensive end of the court, struggled to avoid turnovers, and had serious depth issues at the PG position going into the season. These aren't just coincidences and while it may or may not be time to start thinking about changes we need to focus on whether or not these concerns are being addressed.

I'm still not convinced that there's an answer at the PG spot, or whether we will ever play 40 minutes of team defense or fix the turnover bug. I'm also not convinced that you can have a team of perimeter minded players without playmakers capable of consistently penetrating to get easy baskets or to simply open things up outside. I'm not qualified to coach at the D1 level, but that said, with my untrained eye, I don't see changes being made to address these issues.
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all fair points and questions I have as well. I just don't know how anyone could say Fran was not a complete success story at Iowa up until 2 months ago. If you want to argue how successful, I can feel that. We haven't been elite, but we've been back to what Iowa was the last time it resembled basketball program. 3 year stretches of NCAA's. He'd never taken a step back? A lot of programs do. Again, last season wasn't that IMO, missing the dance by a game when you lost 85% of your scoring and minutes from the previous season is always going to be a good season all things considered. Again, I still think LAST season was Fran's best coaching job.

This season, with out a doubt has been his worse.... I just can't turn on him that quick, he's built up enough good will with me, shows good signs in recruiting, has locked down the borders of Iowa with getting the states top kids (that wasn't always the case with Tom, Steve or Lick), started pulling in other states top kids (Cook, Nunge and Garza) to scrap it this quick just seems knee jerk. That's just me tho, and he's wearing out his welcome with me too. But I've seen enough progress with this program since he's taken over with very few steps backwards along the way and I've seen enough to give him a little bit of a leash.

We're dog crap right now, you'll get no argument from me....but this is the same core that went 10-8 in a better B1G last season. I don't think we are as bad as we've looked and we probably weren't as good as we looked to finish out last season. Fran has his work cut out for him... and I'm a Hawkeye fan and will cheer him on the entire way.
 
Hawk5656 said:
You sure about that?
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Well, comparative to last season? We haven't had any of those types of games.. like... Virginia, @Purdue @ Notre Dame.. etc... tho I don't think Iowa has played any teams like that. The disheartening thing is we're 0-5 in the B1G and this is a worse B1G then last season. It really is perplexing that they are THIS bad.
 
SteveGarvey1 said:
We were one of the first two teams out of the dance last year. We lost Jok,a good but not transformational player, and added Garza and Nunge. This just doesn't add up when we were one-two spots out of the dance last year,and are now a complete dumpster fire.

We haven't been blown out of any games yet. We lost by 18 last night but that was a close game until the final 6-7 minutes. The players and Fran just don't seem to be doing the little things they need to win. Perhaps they thought they were better than they really were since everyone thought they'd be at least a bubble team again. Perhaps they just haven't haven't worked quite hard enough to have success-at least as hard as most other teams have. I know they haven't worked hard enough, coaching and playing-wise on their defensive skills, relative to other programs.

You've been humbled now Fran and the players. You're not as great as you thought you were. Now get to work on the fundamentals and work a little bit harder.
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VT says hello. And last night was a blowout. Spin it however it makes you feel better. Basketball games are 40mins long and in no way is an 18pt loss close. Wasn't even like we were fouling them and putting them on the line at the end that resulted in a lopsided score. These simplistic views of "we're just not doing the little things to win" or "maybe they they thought they were better than they are" are completely ridiculous. Do you think those have anything to do with the glaring athletic differences between our team and opponents? Or bc Fran wasn't "humble"?!?! Do you think Jordan can't guard anyone bc he's not doing the little things, or bc he thinks so highly of himself? Do you guys watch any games other than Iowa?
 
InGoodCo said:
It's not acceptable any year, that's why we're pointing out that year 8 has nothing to do with it. He doesn't get a pass, but firing a guy who's been able to get Iowa back to where it's been, with having 4 straight All B1G players, with having NCAA appearances in the 3 of the last 4 seasons up to this one and with good classes in 16,17 and 18, it also doesn't mean we want him fired immediately. You have to look at all the factors when you say you want him gone. Up until 2 months ago - Fran was nothing but a success story at Iowa.

It is also really Fran's first step back and fail. If you thought he should be dancing last year or not, it was unlikely with the minutes they lost, and I personally think he did HIS BEST COACHING OF THIS TENURE LAST SEASON. Getting that team a game away from the dance was a pretty good job coaching.
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I don't think we can consider the '16 and '17 classes to be good, at this point in time. Those 2 classes are getting almost all of the minutes on a team that is currently 9-9 and dead last in the Big Ten conference. I think there are a couple of good players from these classes but that's all I'm willing to concede at this point.
 
Does anybody else notice that on defense our guys look like they are standing on a corner wating for a bus. Even teaching a 12 year old to play defense, you get them down in a defensive posture with knees bent, feet apart and arms out, so you can move laterally much quicker. Watch the Terps last night and you can see they are taught that. I'm beginning to believe this team spends very little on the basics of how to move to keep your body between the guy you are guarding and the basket, and more time on switching etc.
 
InGoodCo said:
Well, comparative to last season? We haven't had any of those types of games.. like... Virginia, @Purdue @ Notre Dame.. etc... tho I don't think Iowa has played any teams like that. The disheartening thing is we're 0-5 in the B1G and this is a worse B1G then last season. It really is perplexing that they are THIS bad.
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Did you sleep through the Virginia Tech game? We got outscored like 50-15 in the second half.
 
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