Penn st appealing?

[hawkinaclownhouse]

The absolute worst thing that could happen for PSU is for the NCAA to get subpeona power to have full unfettered access to PSU documents and compel people who refused to talk to the Freeh investigation to have to answer questions under oath.

I don't think the 4 BoT members understand the risks they are taking by trying to file a lawsuit. This could be a very, very ugly discovery process. And remember the NCAA reserved the right to revisit the penalties if any new information came to light (can you say death penalty).

They believe they are out to lessen the penalties, but what happens if the opposite occurs. I wonder how the 4 rogue BoT members will feel if they are responsible for shutting down football at PSU for several years.

 

[SpiderRico]

I "get it".


But the fact remains, many on the PSU BoT feel this deal was not "above-boards". They have that right.

Where do you get off playing vigilante and Mr. Moral Superior? Do you even understand the idea that the Freeh report may NOT be 100% perfect, and that some BoT members want further investigation?

I "get" that you think you are intelligent, a moral pinnacle and the best judge of "right" and "wrong". I also get that you are intellectually limited to areas of "black" or "white", and that there is no room for the possibility that the NCAA went beyond the bounds. I get that.

Try to "get" the fact that you are a "check-your-brains-at-the-door" sheep incapable of original thought.

Oh, forget it, just go ahead and let the media tell you how to post.

I get that being contrarian is the "cool" thing to do nowadays, but don't you think you're taking it a little too far?

You speak of someone else being a judge of "right and wrong"....I'm sorry, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist or the pope to figure out that what the leadership of PSU did was so morally repugnant that no amount of punishment would be enough to make up for what they covered up. So you'll have to pardon me while I judge their actions to be morally, ethically and legally WRONG.

Now, as it relates to what the NCAA did....Keep in mind that the NCAA is not a government body, they are a private organization and while you or I may not like their rules, the institutions that are members of this organization are duty bound to abide by them. In addition, the NCAA is not bound by due process nor do their investigations (or the investigations that they rely upon) have to prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt". They simply did what the leadership of that private organization told them to do and what they are allowed to do under their own rules.

Finally, as it relates to how the consent decree was handled, I admit that the BoT probably have a reasonable gripe that they weren't involved in the decision making process. However, seeing as how it is only a group of 4 out of 32 that have an issue with it, there isn't even a quorum to make their gripe legitimate.

The bottom line is that it is simply a small group of hero worshippers that are peeved that their "pet" has been punished and they want to strike back at the people that did it. They have no standing nor will this go anywhere or do anything other than to solidify the feelings that most of the rest of the world has about them now.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I hope Bob62 and the BOT get their way and there is another investigation. I then hope that the NCAA literally ends PSU's life as they know it, in the same manner that Sandusky and all those that turned a blind eye ended so many children's lives as they knew it. Kick them the **** out of the NCAA. They have the biggest scumbag pieces of **** I have ever seen as fans. They take after their gutless leader JoePed and his cronies.

Here's a question: WHAT in my post said I--PERSONALLY--wanted another investigation? The PSU situation has ZERO bearing on me. I didn't go there, I don't root for them, what happened there did NOT happen at Iowa.

Another question for some of the morally superior, especially those who trumpet the gay rights agenda:
--Most argue that homosexuality is "genetic" or "inborn", that the overwhelming majority of gay people have "always known"
--Those same people will say Sandusky is NOT gay, but a pedophile/child-molester
--Studies show the overwhelming majority of child molesters were, themselves, victims of abuse

Given the above, isn't Sandusky also a "victim"? And when 36-year old female teachers molest 15-year old boys, why do they receive LESSER sentences than men in reverse situations? Or is it because Sandusky molested boys and not girls?

I realize this hits too close to home for two sets: those who have been victims or know victims, and those who claim moral high ground who can't wrap their minds around some hard facts.

What Sandusky did was deplorable. PSU officials not going to authorities is also deplorable.

But the fact remains, there are elements in the NCAA "case" against PSU that raise questions. If one chooses to "ignore" those questions, it is merely the byproduct of being "ignorant".

Some day, Iowa could have some "heinous" type of occurence within our athletic realm. It could be a murder, rape, etc. It could be a coach, a player, a staffer, whatever. If/when that happens, will all of you be content to hire a "group" and NOT worry about whether or not they are as thorough as possible? And are you willing to put the fate of the Iowa athletic programs in the hands of an NCAA committee of 18 people that includes folks from USC, UMiami or any number of SEC schools?

The bottom line shouldn't be about "getting it". Those who think that..."don't".

 

[David79]

The idea that the NCAA could compel testimony from people or get whatever documents they wanted just because it goes to court is not necessarily true. The discovery has to be relevant, and if the subject is strictly whether they were given due process, then Schultz's testimony and others is irrelevant. Further, even in a breach of contract case it would be irrelevant when all that matters is the interpretation of the contract terms. It wouldn't be a case about the guilt or innocence of PSU administrators.

 

[nationalchamps]

So, if these 4 BOT members file an appeal and lawsuit, would that give the NCAA the authority to drop the 4 year banhammer on Pedo State? I would think it would.

 

[hawkinaclownhouse]

Some day, Iowa could have some "heinous" type of occurence within our athletic realm. It could be a murder, rape, etc. It could be a coach, a player, a staffer, whatever. If/when that happens, will all of you be content to hire a "group" and NOT worry about whether or not they are as thorough as possible? And are you willing to put the fate of the Iowa athletic programs in the hands of an NCAA committee of 18 people that includes folks from USC, UMiami or any number of SEC schools?

The bigger question is will the university and athletic administration cover it up for over a decade and allow crimes to be committed against additional victims? That is why PSU is being punished not the original criminal act.

 

[CAARHawk]

If this isn't firm evidence that they are not ready for institutional control, I don't know what is.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I get that being contrarian is the "cool" thing to do nowadays, but don't you think you're taking it a little too far?

You speak of someone else being a judge of "right and wrong"....I'm sorry, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist or the pope to figure out that what the leadership of PSU did was so morally repugnant that no amount of punishment would be enough to make up for what they covered up. So you'll have to pardon me while I judge their actions to be morally, ethically and legally WRONG.

Now, as it relates to what the NCAA did....Keep in mind that the NCAA is not a government body, they are a private organization and while you or I may not like their rules, the institutions that are members of this organization are duty bound to abide by them. In addition, the NCAA is not bound by due process nor do their investigations (or the investigations that they rely upon) have to prove guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt". They simply did what the leadership of that private organization told them to do and what they are allowed to do under their own rules.

Finally, as it relates to how the consent decree was handled, I admit that the BoT probably have a reasonable gripe that they weren't involved in the decision making process. However, seeing as how it is only a group of 4 out of 32 that have an issue with it, there isn't even a quorum to make their gripe legitimate.

The bottom line is that it is simply a small group of hero worshippers that are peeved that their "pet" has been punished and they want to strike back at the people that did it. They have no standing nor will this go anywhere or do anything other than to solidify the feelings that most of the rest of the world has about them now.

If they have no "standing", why do/did you feel it necessary to delineate everything about the NCAA and its "process" and the small number of BoT folks who want to pursue it? But if we want to go there with the NCAA, do you NOT find it odd that the whole "death penalty" issue disappeared from the website the PSU attorney was trying to access? Or that it clearly states the "death penalty' is limited to multiple offenders (PLEASE do not try to rationalize this as multiple offenses. Sandusky committed multiple offenses, but PSU has NOT previously been punished)? And if you don't take issue with certain threats alleged about death penalty being "back on the table if this is leaked" type of stuff, we will get what we deserve when the NCAA continues to go down this road. Sure, it's a member organization. Sure, it has rules. The problem? The make-up of the NCAA "power structure", along with the way rules are enforced or NOT enforced.

And why must everyone show just how outraged they are about what happened at PSU? Shouldn't that be a "given"? Is it a matter of being on the bandwagon, or is it a lack of original thought or the ability to think rationally? Of COURSE it's deplorable and repugnant! Who DIDN'T figure that out?!

 

[hawkinaclownhouse]

The idea that the NCAA could compel testimony from people or get whatever documents they wanted just because it goes to court is not necessarily true. The discovery has to be relevant, and if the subject is strictly whether they were given due process, then Schultz's testimony and others is irrelevant. Further, even in a breach of contract case it would be irrelevant when all that matters is the interpretation of the contract terms. It wouldn't be a case about the guilt or innocence of PSU administrators.

NCAA is not required to give due process when a person of authority from the university waives that right and accepts the punishment. So the 4 members of the BoT complaint is with the president of PSU and the full BoT sanctioned the president's actions after the fact so what is the basis for a lawsuit against the NCAA?

 

[alexzelada]

The idea that the NCAA could compel testimony from people or get whatever documents they wanted just because it goes to court is not necessarily true. The discovery has to be relevant, and if the subject is strictly whether they were given due process, then Schultz's testimony and others is irrelevant. Further, even in a breach of contract case it would be irrelevant when all that matters is the interpretation of the contract terms. It wouldn't be a case about the guilt or innocence of PSU administrators.

While this is true some enterprising lawyer (or his paralegal) wanting to make the BOTs look bad will leak some ugly info to the media. Once you get a Woodward or Bernstine on this case, the front page headlines will make people vomit into their cereal. And the negative publicity generated will do to PSU, what Al Sharpton did to Zimmerman.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

The bigger question is will the university and athletic administration cover it up for over a decade and allow crimes to be committed against additional victims? That is why PSU is being punished not the original criminal act.

Who knows? But if it's the 14-year cover-up, which some would argue wasn't as "bad" as the Freeh Report said, it is still ONE offense.

In effect, the committee of 18 people said, "Screw the rules we have in place". Fine and dandy. How soon before they either push it too far or, worse, don't push AT ALL with a Miami/FL or USC? Technically speaking, if there is ANY truth to the most recent rumors out of Miami/FL, they should be a "death penalty" candidate NOW. But? No, instead, President Donna Shalala is part of the committee!

 

[olivecourt]

Some day, Iowa could have some "heinous" type of occurence within our athletic realm. It could be a murder, rape, etc. It could be a coach, a player, a staffer, whatever. If/when that happens, will all of you be content to hire a "group" and NOT worry about whether or not they are as thorough as possible? And are you willing to put the fate of the Iowa athletic programs in the hands of an NCAA committee of 18 people that includes folks from USC, UMiami or any number of SEC schools?

Good god, yes, I'm willing to put the fate of Iowa's athletics program in someone else's hands IF we ended up in a similar situation-- i.e., a rape or murder that is covered up at the highest levels of the institution. I don't care if the committee deciding our fate is made up of SEC schools, Big Ten schools, or if it's just a group of 18 Cyclone fans. Do you realize how silly it sounds to worry about stuff like that? At a certain point, the sports rivalries that we all hyperventilate about really don't matter-- as it doesn't really matter in any way whether or not Penn State gets to go the GalleryFurniture.com Bowl next year. I guess I don't see why that's a difficult concept to grasp.

To Penn State's credit, it sounds like 28 of their 32 board members understand it just fine. I'm going to guess that these other 4 won't be re-elected when their terms are up.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Good god, yes, I'm willing to put the fate of Iowa's athletics program in someone else's hands IF we ended up in a similar situation-- i.e., a rape or murder that is covered up at the highest levels of the institution. I don't care if the committee deciding our fate is made up of SEC schools, Big Ten schools, or if it's just a group of 18 Cyclone fans. At a certain point, the sports rivalries that we all hyperventilate about really don't matter-- as it doesn't really matter in any way whether or not Penn State gets to go the GalleryFurniture.com Bowl next year. I guess I don't see why that's a difficult concept to grasp.

To Penn State's credit, it sounds like 28 of their 32 board members understand it just fine. I'm going to guess that these other 4 won't be re-elected when their terms are up.

<<I don't care if the committee deciding our fate is made up of...>>

Woe to you with that belief. If the integrity of any committee, or any other deciding body, isn't important, the rules themselves mean little.

 

[olivecourt]

<<I don't care if the committee deciding our fate is made up of...>>

Woe to you with that belief. If the integrity of any committee, or any other deciding body, isn't important, the rules themselves mean little.

You realize that coming from a different conference or a different school doesn't automatically mean you don't have integrity, right? You may want to consider the possibility that university presidents have the ability to set aside, if even for a moment, the ******* matches between their fans when the stakes are as high as this. That may in fact be one of the reasons why they are successful administrators rather than mouth-breathing message board fanatics.

 

[SpiderRico]

If they have no "standing", why do/did you feel it necessary to delineate everything about the NCAA and its "process" and the small number of BoT folks who want to pursue it? But if we want to go there with the NCAA, do you NOT find it odd that the whole "death penalty" issue disappeared from the website the PSU attorney was trying to access? Or that it clearly states the "death penalty' is limited to multiple offenders (PLEASE do not try to rationalize this as multiple offenses. Sandusky committed multiple offenses, but PSU has NOT previously been punished)? And if you don't take issue with certain threats alleged about death penalty being "back on the table if this is leaked" type of stuff, we will get what we deserve when the NCAA continues to go down this road. Sure, it's a member organization. Sure, it has rules. The problem? The make-up of the NCAA "power structure", along with the way rules are enforced or NOT enforced.

And why must everyone show just how outraged they are about what happened at PSU? Shouldn't that be a "given"? Is it a matter of being on the bandwagon, or is it a lack of original thought or the ability to think rationally? Of COURSE it's deplorable and repugnant! Who DIDN'T figure that out?!

You, apparently. You're the one who was b!tching and moaning about people judging others or feeling morally superior. Guess what? I'll always feel morally superior to pedophiles and those that cover up for them!

And you continue to b!tch and moan about the NCAA not following the rules. Guess what.....Abe Lincoln suspended a lot of the rules in the Constitution in order to get our country put back together. The point is, sometimes rules can and should be suspended in times of unbelievable crisis or when things are so far out of the norm. I believe this is one of those times.

But you know what, that's why they're called OPINIONS. You walk around here and post as if you have a claim on the truth or the facts and continue to deride those whose opinions don't line up to yours. Your opinions are no better or worse than anyone else's.....they're just opinions.

But you keep on keepin' on, brother! I'll stay on the side of the "morally superior" and you can be on the side of the pedophiles and the cover-up artists. Good luck!

 

[Billso]

I thought this was great insight by Akaba on the Rivals Pitt board.

<snip>
"Some readers may recall that my suggestion to Erickson would have been to have the BOT ratify after the fact his signing of the Consent Decree. That can be done. In other words, and just for sake of argument, assume that
Erickson overstepped his authority by signing the Consent Decree as he
should have, for sake of discussion, reviewed it with the BOT prior to
placing his signature on that document. Nevertheless, after the fact the BOT can still ratify his actions."

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. Again, the full board *already* issued a press release agreeing with the sanctions and Erickson's acceptance of them. I suspect they've approved them formally as well, but if not, they should do so immediately and make that known publicly.

And firmly disavow the 4 dissenters, who are doing great harm to PSU right now.

 

[DuffMan]

bob you keep poining out they didnt interview spanier, gram, curley, etc...

They didnt need to. All those guys testified to a grand jury. They made statements there. All thr FR had to do was compare testimoney to the paper trail to determine what happened.

In addition anyone with a brain knows they were never going to be allowed to talk to those guys. They are all facing perjury charges and there is no way there attorneys would allow them to speak to FR investigstors.

 

[UP6936]

<<I don't care if the committee deciding our fate is made up of...>>

Woe to you with that belief. If the integrity of any committee, or any other deciding body, isn't important, the rules themselves mean little.

If someone within the Hawkeye football program committed a rape, murder or something of that nature, and Ferentz, Barta and Mason covered it up and allowed the perpetrator to roam free for 14 years, not only would I not care what outside persons or groups were investigating, judging and punishing my beloved school, but I would be so disgusted by it that I would be ashamed to call myself a Hawkeye fan and would find it hard to associate myself with the team any more, as much as I truly love my Hawks.


Sports are just fun and games, a diversion from real life. The real lives of people matter so much more.

PSU needs to show that they get this.

 

[SpiderRico]

If someone within the Hawkeye football program committed a rape, murder or something of that nature, and Ferentz, Barta and Mason covered it up and allowed the perpetrator to roam free for 14 years, not only would I not care what outside persons or groups were investigating, judging and punishing my beloved school, but I would be so disgusted by it that I would be ashamed to call myself a Hawkeye fan and would find it hard to associate myself with the team any more, as much as I truly love my Hawks.


Sports are just fun and games, a diversion from real life. The real lives of people matter so much more.

PSU needs to show that they get this.

Unfortunately it is becoming more and more apparent with each passing day that the "lives" of PSU fans revolve solely around the football program and they will trample anyone and anything that gets in the way of that.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Unfortunately it is becoming more and more apparent with each passing day that the "lives" of PSU fans revolve solely around the football program and they will trample anyone and anything that gets in the way of that.

That very well may be. But, again, THEY weren't the ones who committed the initial crime(s). If you can't understand their "defense" of the program, I can understand that. But for everyone to say they should be quiet and accept it without comment or complaint is ludicrous.