Objective comparison of Fran and Lick

C

CAARHawk

Banned
A comparison of Lick and Fran

Lick’s first year roster and record

David Palmer So C
JR Angle Jr SG
Tony Freeman Jr PG
Dan Bohall So G
Justin Johnson Sr G
Jeff Peterson F G
Jake Kelly F G
Cyrus Tate Jr F
Jarryd Cole F F
Kurst Looby Sr F
Seth Gorney Sr C

Record 13-19 (6-12)

First year recruits J Cole, J Kelly, J Pete
Second year recruits Fuller 3*, Brommer 2*, Gatens 4*, Tucker 3*, Davis 3*, Bawinkel 3*
(one open scholarship in year two)

Fran’s First year roster and record

Mel Basabe F F
Cully Payne So G
Devyn Marble F G
Matt Gatens, Jr G
Zach McCabe F F
Andrew Brommer, Jr F
Bryce Cartwright Jr PG
Eric May So, G-F
Devon Archie Jr F
Jarryd Cole SR F

Record 11-20 (4-14)

First year recruits M Basabe, B Cartwright, D Marble, Z McCabe
Second year recruits White 3*, Ogelsby 3*, Olaseni 3*
(two open scholarships in year two)

Conclusion

If you look at this comparison it is really quite equal, with perhaps Lick coming out on top. However, Lick’s third recruiting class really killed him. Fran’s current recruiting class is just as important. Can’t come away like Lick with 3 2*s, one overrated 3* and additional attrition.
 
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I seriously wonder if Fran will get this turned around. Will the fans, and more importantly, the AD give him another 3-4 years from now?

You're right, this next recruiting class is huge for him. If he still cannot get quality players, we're doomed to be at the bottom of the big10.

I do think Fran is a better coach than Lick, has a better style, and seems to just be a better fit overall. But he hasn't proven he can recruit at a high level. And I don't care that he recruited Jimmy Freddrette (sp) from BYU, he still didn't get him at Siena.

Even if he does pull in a similar ranked class as Lick in his 3rd recruiting season, I'll still hold out hope that he's getting some under the radar guys, where Lick really reached with a lot of those kids.

Hard to say, but we rag on ISU and Fred, but he seems to be much better at rebuilding a program so far than Fran.
 
In fairness you got give CXole and Kelly (the 2 best of Lick's 1st group) mostly to Alford. He actually recruited them and got thier commitment, Lick just retained them (2 of them for just one year).

Conversly you have to give the same credit to Lick for Marble and McCabe (so far the least productive of the 4) and say that to this point Fran seems to be retaining the whole group.
 
I think we have to hope that Coach can turn it around. If not, I'm afraid we are going to be a wasteland for basketball, see the last few of years. Hubbard, I'm sorry to see him go but at least it was early and we can hopefully move on. I totally agree that next years recruiting class will be very important and very interesting. Give us a 500 season this year and hopefully we are tourney bound the following season. Pray that Cartwright stays healthy and that our guys, new and old, really show up and play with a chip on their collective shoulders.
 
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Amazing. So many were touting Fran as being the man and were all excited about the next season but now that Hubbard leaves some are already wondering if he'll be given 3-4 years to turn it around. Breathtaking.
 
SteveGarvey said:
Amazing. So many were touting Fran as being the man and were all excited about the next season but now that Hubbard leaves some are already wondering if he'll be given 3-4 years to turn it around. Breathtaking.
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Hubbard was a big piece the next two years.

Right now Eric May is slotted to get significant minutes. Eric May will never play on a college basketball team that doesn't suck.
 
SteveGarvey said:
Amazing. So many were touting Fran as being the man and were all excited about the next season but now that Hubbard leaves some are already wondering if he'll be given 3-4 years to turn it around. Breathtaking.
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Losing Hubbard is a major loss for Fran. I'm sure he had to convince quite a few people in the administration that taking Hubbard was worth the risk. After how this turned out, I would think Fran is going to have a much harder time trying to bring in another player who is viewed as a risk in the future.
 
SteveGarvey said:
Amazing. So many were touting Fran as being the man and were all excited about the next season but now that Hubbard leaves some are already wondering if he'll be given 3-4 years to turn it around. Breathtaking.
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Hubbard is only part of the doubt I am beginning to feel. Other than Basabe (who he already had lined up), his other recruits on paper don't appear to be of the caliber that will get us out of the B1G cellar, although certainly time will tell. His next two recruiting classes need to be markedly better.
 
tweeterhawk said:
Hubbard is only part of the doubt I am beginning to feel. Other than Basabe (who he already had lined up), his other recruits on paper don't appear to be of the caliber that will get us out of the B1G cellar, although certainly time will tell. His next two recruiting classes need to be markedly better.
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My comments weren't so much a judgement but an observation. I too, am starting to have concerns. But I'm still keeping the faith in Fran.
 
I have never been one to jump on the Fran bandwagon. I definitely like him better than Lick, but I'm not one who reads a press conference and then immediately says "Fran gets it, he's going to turn this thing around for sure".

So far he does talk a very good game, that's refreshing compared to the past two coaches, or even three (Mr. Davis was good guy and good coach, but he was never the hard worker in the offseason). But we're failing to see any results from recruiting. It's not for lack of trying, but when you're trying to sell this program, coupled by an unknown coaching staff.....it's very hard to feel good about where we are going.
 
Will Fran get it done? Who knows.

But to compare anything about the situation he took over as opposed to Lickliter shows a severe lack of understanding of how bad Lick was and where he took our program.
 
9YRPLAN said:
huh? brust barely played and larson is in jail.
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That is recruiting class number four, which turns out to be Fran's first class.

For the people who say you need to give the already signed recruits to the last coach, I just don't agree.

Strong coaches come in and keep the guys they want, dump others and fill the extra spots with other guys they want.

Weaker coaches lose the guys they want and try to fill spots with less quality players, or leave open roster spots.

Middle of the road coaches more or less hold service.
 
SteveGarvey said:
Amazing. So many were touting Fran as being the man and were all excited about the next season but now that Hubbard leaves some are already wondering if he'll be given 3-4 years to turn it around. Breathtaking.
Click to expand...

From the very beginning, I have said that recruiting is absolutely crucial for success and that recent history shows that you need to make a splash in recruiting in the first couple of years, or it just doesn't happen. I haven't changed this stance from even before Fran was hired.
 
The only comparison I need to make is that as Steve Alfords players left or graduated from school, Todd Lickliters record got worse and worse. Which tells me that Lickliter couldnt recruit at this level. Fran on the other hand brought in the 2 best players on the team (Basabe, Cartwright) in his first year. We will see if Fran's team get worse from here on out.
 
I think there's a bit of an over reaction to losing Hubbard. Sure its a big loss, but in the whole scheme of things he would have changed maybe 2 or 3 games. That would still have us as a much better team than last year. I mean be honest, how many close games did Iowa lose just because they had no bench and very little experience? A handful or so. I expect Iowa to be a better team this year even without Hubbard. The schedule is seriously easy and the Big Ten isn't what it was last year. Those who thought Hubbard was a "program changer" are wrong. It's still very early in the recruiting process for this year and Fran has ample time to get it done still. If we get to January with a team similar to last year and poor incoming recruits, I'll begin to worry.
 
uofihawkInation said:
I think there's a bit of an over reaction to losing Hubbard. Sure its a big loss, but in the whole scheme of things he would have changed maybe 2 or 3 games. That would still have us as a much better team than last year. I mean be honest, how many close games did Iowa lose just because they had no bench and very little experience? A handful or so. I expect Iowa to be a better team this year even without Hubbard. The schedule is seriously easy and the Big Ten isn't what it was last year. Those who thought Hubbard was a "program changer" are wrong. It's still very early in the recruiting process for this year and Fran has ample time to get it done still. If we get to January with a team similar to last year and poor incoming recruits, I'll begin to worry.
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We all knew Hubbard wasn't Bawinkle II from the perimeter. But having an athletic player who was not afraid to penetrate, elevate to the basket and draw the foul would have been a huge asset this year, something we didn't have last year.
 
Lick's second season the team went 15-17 (5-13). This team is likely to have a very similar record with close to ten wins in the VERY easy OOC season and then when they get up against B1G front lines, they will just get destroyed as teams will be able to neutralize Mel and also just dominate on the boards. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this team was not able to match the success of Lick's second season.

I also expect, like Lick's second season, the Hawks will have a player on the all-Frosh team in White.
 
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