Not tryin to pile on

[HeneryHawk]

It appears to me that Lickliter is dogmatic in his approach to his system and the game. If a player is not doing exactly as he wants, he wont be nice, the player will not play (even if that player is able to score/help the team). The turnover of players that have played major minutes seem to verify that.

Tony was a leader, a player, and loved the Hawks, he had the fire to win, what more could you want to help build a program?

 

[ForeverHawk]

It appears to me that Lickliter is dogmatic in his approach to his system and the game. If a player is not doing exactly as he wants, he wont be nice, the player will not play (even if that player is able to score/help the team). The turnover of players that have played major minutes seem to verify that.

Tony was a leader, a player, and loved the Hawks, he had the fire to win, what more could you want to help build a program?

Someone that would be willing to adapt to be a part of a team he supposedly loves???? Don't think it was too much to ask. Apparently for Tony it was!!!

 

[ddiction]

Not by much. Lickliter's "my way or the highway" approach didn't give Freeman a whole lot of choice. You obviously disagree, but I don't think you bench the team's leading scorer over it.

Didn't Lickliter say about Seth Gorney that he was willing to let him play to his strengths, etc. rather than try to force him into a role he was uncomfortable in? Why was it different with Freeman?

Seth's limitations were physical. He just didn't have any effective low post moves and was just generally uncoordinated.

Tony's limitations were mental. He just wanted to play one-on-one all the time. If you have plays that involve 5 guys, and the point guard decides instead that he'd rather play one-on-one, you might as well just throw the clipboard away and hand the whistle to Tony.

 

[tm3308]

A guy doesn't want to conform to the system? Yeah, there's no problem there. Different sport, but say we had a receiver like T.O. on the football team here. He wants the ball on EVERY play, and will tear your locker room apart if he doesn't get what he wants. We run the ball 60% of the time. See the conflict?

Freeman, much like Jeff Peterson and Jermain Davis, is better fit with a team that plays a more uptempo game. He's not a half-court offense guy, he's a street baller. We were better off without him, because that kind of contrast would not have been good.

If we're going to tell coaches that they have to play the players that they inherit, regardless of whether or not they fit the system said coach likes to run, then there's going to be a lot of problems.

So, you look at last year's transfers, and you see two guys who just didn't fit (Davis and Peterson), another who was in the doghouse for not doing what he was told to do (Palmer), and another who had a very legit reason for leaving (Kelly). And anybody who thinks that Lick should be more lenient on guys who don't do their job the way they're supposed to, look at Ferentz. Paki O'Meara fumbles twice against UNI, and carries the ball just 7 times the rest of the season. He pulls guys out who either don't or won't do their jobs all the time. He did the same to DJK this year. I have a gut feeling that it was his downfield blocking that was keeping him out of games early in the year. It was lousy in 2008, and was much improved when he got back to his regular role. If the basketball players can't conform to the system, then they are better off leaving.

 

[JHHawk]

SIU is not an uptempo team. They are a dig in defensive team that does not run much. As the announcer said, Tony is one of the best defenders in the MVC this year. Iowa is one of the worst perimeter defensive teams in the league,if not the worst. Freeman was out of position and had a broken foot for half the season at Iowa...and Lick runs him out. Oh,he also led the team in scoring and assists.
Look at Tony at SIU, he is off the point, shooting 43% from three and 46% overall..and has a positive assist to turnover ratio. Can't use guys like that at Iowa.

 

[tm3308]

SIU is not an uptempo team. They are a dig in defensive team that does not run much. As the announcer said, Tony is one of the best defenders in the MVC this year. Iowa is one of the worst perimeter defensive teams in the league,if not the worst. Freeman was out of position and had a broken foot for half the season at Iowa...and Lick runs him out. Oh,he also led the team in scoring and assists.
Look at Tony at SIU, he is off the point, shooting 43% from three and 46% overall..and has a positive assist to turnover ratio. Can't use guys like that at Iowa.

Freeman's A/TO ratio is just 1.13, and he has 38 assists (according to the SIU athletics site). For a reference point, John Lickliter has a 2.33 A/TO average with 14 assists (according to UI athletics site), while averaging almost 20 fewer minutes per game. Also, Cully Payne has the exact same A/TO ratio, and he's doing it in the Big Ten as a true freshman, not the Valley as a senior. The only thing he brings to the table that's better than Payne is a little scoring. But I'd take Payne over Freeman, because the experience that Payne is getting this year will benefit us much more over the next 3 years than having Freeman would have for the last two.

 

[DocGasser]

T. Freeman decided to leave, he was not asked to leave!

The hits keep on coming Are you 12 years old or just special. You need to just stop. LOL!

 

[hamiltoncounty]

Wait a minute....... Seth Gorney had strengths?

 

[JHHawk]

Tony is not a natural pg and is playing with a pure pg in Dillard at SIU. So the comparison to Cully is not accurate. Tony is a very good defender and a sniper from distance. And yes, if Tony had red-shirted like he wanted in his junior year when he broke his foot,(lick said no) then he would have been an important player the last two years for Iowa. It is like saying the last two years did not matter to say we are better off with frosh getting expeirence....why did any fans bother to buy tickets the last two years if they were simply a holding pattern-years to get to this years frosh class to get them experience? Lick was paid 2.4 million to win games the last two years also,right? Total BS...just unacceptable.

 

[hawkeye12345]

Seth's limitations were physical. He just didn't have any effective low post moves and was just generally uncoordinated.

Tony's limitations were mental. He just wanted to play one-on-one all the time. If you have plays that involve 5 guys, and the point guard decides instead that he'd rather play one-on-one, you might as well just throw the clipboard away and hand the whistle to Tony.

So what you are saying is we are OK with physically limited abilities but don't want kids that can make plays on there own... got it.

 

[tm3308]

Tony is not a natural pg and is playing with a pure pg in Dillard at SIU. So the comparison to Cully is not accurate. Tony is a very good defender and a sniper from distance. And yes, if Tony had red-shirted like he wanted in his junior year when he broke his foot,(lick said no) then he would have been an important player the last two years for Iowa. It is like saying the last two years did not matter to say we are better off with frosh getting expeirence....why did any fans bother to buy tickets the last two years if they were simply a holding pattern-years to get to this years frosh class to get them experience? Lick was paid 2.4 million to win games the last two years also,right? Total BS...just unacceptable.

NOBODY was going to come in and win games with the shape Alford left the program in. Lickliter inherited one of the biggest nightmares imaginable. And people for some reason can't see that the team isn't winning that much, but they have gotten better, and are much more competitive. The fact that we're as young as we are and are still competitive bodes well for the future. But, most of you prefer not to see that, and would rather set the program back even further by making a coaching change.

If Freeman isn't a true point guard, then he's not really helping the problem, because that's kind of what we needed.

 

[hawkfan2679]

Tony's limitations were mental. He just wanted to play one-on-one all the time. If you have plays that involve 5 guys, and the point guard decides instead that he'd rather play one-on-one, you might as well just throw the clipboard away and hand the whistle to Tony.

I can think of a large number of times when running our "offense" turned into having the ball 30 feet from the basket with less than 8 seconds on the shot clock, and needing someone to try to play 1 on 1 or jack up a long 3.

Just sayin'...

 

[JHHawk]

No, last year and this year we needed a shooting guard that stays out of trouble(unlike our starter,Tucker)...and to shoot the ball better from the perimeter. Licks whole system is based on knocking down 3 pointers,and we have been a lousy 3 point shooting team...cept for Peterson last year(40%) our pg. With Kelly and Peterson,we had pgs last year....we could not shoot. If lick is going to base his system on hitting 3 pointers....he better find guys that can do it exceptionally well, not just average....our percentage from distance is about #240 in the country...not good enough if that is your whole offense.
We keep losing the best shooters...last year peterson and kelly(who set a frosh record at 43% the year before) and the year before Freeman. Who's next? Gatens? tucker?....that is the trend.

 

[ICHAWK]

NOBODY was going to come in and win games with the shape Alford left the program in. Lickliter inherited one of the biggest nightmares imaginable. And people for some reason can't see that the team isn't winning that much, but they have gotten better, and are much more competitive. The fact that we're as young as we are and are still competitive bodes well for the future. But, most of you prefer not to see that, and would rather set the program back even further by making a coaching change.

If Freeman isn't a true point guard, then he's not really helping the problem, because that's kind of what we needed.

TM3308 you are a piece of work. Alford did not leave the program under NCAA sanctions like Sampson did at Indiana. You are exaggerating how bad the Iowa situation was when Lick took over. Just keep overstaing stuff, you appear to be good at that.

Technically when alford left, Kelly was committed, Cole was committed, Peterson was committed, Tyler Smith was still at Iowa, Tony Freeman was still around. I would not say it was all world, but that is a pretty solid group.

How can you say Alford left Iowa in shambles? I am glad he is gone however I don't change history to support the current coach more either.

Stop with your false statements.

 

[Hooper]

however, can someone explain and rationalize why Tony Freeman was asked to leave the Iowa basketball program?

Really, really have to question that decision, here, at this point

Do you have some evidence that he was asked to leave? Because I do not think that was the case. In fact I know it is not the case.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

TM3308 you are a piece of work. Alford did not leave the program under NCAA sanctions like Sampson did at Indiana. You are exaggerating how bad the Iowa situation was when Lick took over. Just keep overstaing stuff, you appear to be good at that.

Technically when alford left, Kelly was committed, Cole was committed, Peterson was committed, Tyler Smith was still at Iowa, Tony Freeman was still around. I would not say it was all world, but that is a pretty solid group.

How can you say Alford left Iowa in shambles? I am glad he is gone however I don't change history to support the current coach more either.

Stop with your false statements.

Agreed. Alford wasn't well liked at all by the fanbase, so he makes a convenient scapegoat for a lot of folks.

Alford did not leave behind the greatest team in the world, no, but his last three years he won 21, 25 and 17 games. That is hardly the "biggest nightmare imagineable" being left for the successor. If that is "in shambles", then what do you call the current situation? Good grief.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Do you have some evidence that he was asked to leave? Because I do not think that was the case. In fact I know it is not the case.

Freeman was not asked to leave. But I do believe that Lickliter had his hand firmly in the middle of Freeman's back when he left the program.

 

[JHHawk]

As Tony was quoted after the UNI game '' I think coach just wanted his own players'' makes pretty clear....Lick was squeezing out Tony...as he expected to land Chris Babb....just like he froze out Peterson because he expected to get Armstead...

 

[woodyk1]

As Tony was quoted after the UNI game '' I think coach just wanted his own players'' makes pretty clear....Lick was squeezing out Tony...as he expected to land Chris Babb....just like he froze out Peterson because he expected to get Armstead...

My only problem with this is that Tony 'felt' coach wanted his own players. That would be convenient since it was reported that Tony was not running plays as the PG that were called by the coach. I agree that Tony had the foot issue and may have been frustrated at the time (something he also mentioned after the UNI game), so both parties were probably at fault.

 

[boneshq]

Tyler Smith was seriously considering leaving at the end of the year during the season and never had one practice or game with lick before transferring. Freeman wanted to be the Man and have the entire game plan flow through him, and then when we wasn't named captain, which would indicate that it was His team, he left. Jermain left cuz he thought he should have played more at the end of the year, peterson leaving was dumb on his part in my opinion, kelly left for legit reasons, palmer didn't play cuz his bball IQ is low and he doesn't give a full effort all the time. with the exception of kelly and smith who was on his way out anyway, the others guys saw the writing on the wall, and in my opinion didn't want to do what they were going to be asked to do on the court