FreedComanche
Banned
I think you are just trying to stir the pot with that comment, but I'll take the bait anyway.
Ferentz is not a mystery at all. You got 14 years in which to judge by. You know exactly what you are getting.
FreedComanche
Not The Only Ones Lacking Optimism
- Thread starter SheagleHawk
- Start date
I think you are just trying to stir the pot with that comment, but I'll take the bait anyway.
Ferentz is not a mystery at all. You got 14 years in which to judge by. You know exactly what you are getting.
FreedComanche
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
We do, and for some reason people like you want to actually ignore about 10 years worth of evidence:
That actually won't fly
Here is the BTN List, and then out to the right and in parenthesis, I put the team's corresponding overall and conference record during that time frame. This will take into account the 2002-2011 seasons, which were the season's played in advance of the corresponding draft years used.
1. Ohio State 59 (105-24) (93-24 officially recognized)
2. Iowa 45 (85-42)
T-3. Nebraska 41 (82-48)
T-3. Wisconsin 41 (94-37)
5. Penn State 40 (had to forfeit too many years)
6. Michigan 39 (82-44)
7. Purdue 27 (64-61)
8. Illinois 26 (44-77)
9. Michigan State 26 (70-56)
10. Northwestern 12 (62-63)
T-11. Minnesota 11 (58-67)
T-11. Indiana 11 (37-82)
Wisconsin has done a great job on the field and in the draft. I'd say given their resources compared to Ohio State's, they are probably the team of the last decade in the Big Ten. Of course, Ohio State has won the most games but Wisconsin hasn't been under the spectre of major NCAA sanctions and they also don't have the recruiting base that Ohio State has, either. Iowa is in third in overall wins during that era, which is very much in line with their number of draft picks.
Last I check KF was the coach from 2001-2011....maybe, just maybe it is tougher than some understand to keep a consistently high level of winning over a decade or more. There will be highs and lows, and it seems that Iowa, with the 3rd most wins in the BIG over those 10 years might, shows that KF has done a much better than AVG. job at Iowa over his tenure.
BTW I only post this to show overall record, not draft picks #'s
That all said Freed, that is looking at the past. I am more interested in what KF and staff can do this year. If they win 4 games again this year, I think the evidence is mounting that KF can't turn it around, and the heat should be extremely hot under his seat. Yet I just can't somehow conclude that KF is one of the worst D1 coaches in football since he came here, when the record and facts prove otherwise.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
+1
Very well said dean. The slope is getting slippery so the performance/improvement we see from the team this year will ultimately decide what position I take at the end of this season. I expect some down years, but he needs to start turning the ship around soon or I'll give up on him as well. Bottom line is there is a gap that is growing in Hawkeyenation. The way you decide to look at the current state of the program all depends whether you're a glass half empty or glass half full individual. This is why so many of these arguments we've seen all offseason are pointless. Might as well be Congress and the Senate trying to work together to get things done... not gonna happen.
In his tenure, KF has absolutely performed above average for a head coach at Iowa and history backs that up. You can either choose to appreciate that for what it is and realize there are going to be some down years, or you can whine about it and swear someone else could do better (which is possible but not likely given the history of the program). I choose to remain patient and see if the Captain has it in him to turn it around again.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
For all the criticism I read about KF...one thing that never seems to come up is that his teams play the SEC very well. It rare when you see a Big Ten team kick the crap out of an SEC team...South Carolina. Or beat LSU, Florida, etc.....I know it's been a few years, but his teams show up and don't **** it down their leg in those games.
FreedComanche
Banned
Good response.
I think you know I'm not ignoring anything about ferentz, and I've given my thoughts as to why he was successful in many previous posts. Not gonna do that again here.
The point I'm attempting to drive home is that you have a coach who did not have success for 10 straight years as you piont out (look at the whole decade of the 2000s), and has completely underachieved since 2010 with the best talent in 30 years for that particular year, while totally letting the bottom fall out last year.
I know the argument is there were close game losses last year. True, but look at the schedule. Weak non con schedule in which they lost to Isu and a Mac team. And were beaten by the Big ten's bottom teams during the weakest big ten in the modern era. All this while the offense was ranked 113 out of 121 teams in the nation.
Now be honest with yoruself. If you were an outsider looking in and knowing the info that I just typed, what would you conclude about him?
FreedComanche
DP5555
Well-Known Member
How did he not have success for 10 straight years? Dean did not point that out. He said he has the 3rd highest winning percentage in the Big Ten for those 10 years.... are you dyslexic? This is what dean said:
There will be highs and lows, and it seems that Iowa, with the 3rd most wins in the BIG over those 10 years might, shows that KF has done a much better than AVG. job at Iowa over his tenure.
I'm confused how you misconstrued that into what you've said.
And If I was an outsider looking in I would have to consider the history of the program. Does it look bad right now? Absolutely. Things are not heading in the right direction. If that continues then we all know what will happen sooner or later and rightfully so. However, Coach Ferentz and his Iowa teams have outperformed the expectations given the history of the Iowa program. That has to be taken into consideration. Have they underperformed some years? Definitely. Have they overachieved some years? Definitely. That's the give and take of college football especially at the U of I. You're failing miserably at trying to drive home your point.
FreedComanche
Banned
are you dyslexic?
Don't read or respond to my post if you are gonna be a disrespectful, little p-ick.
FreedComanche
DP5555
Well-Known Member
My apologies for the snarky comment... probably went too far with that one. However, considering the way you comprehended what dean said, or failed to comprehend what he said, I figured it was a fair thing to ask at the time.
FreedComanche
Banned
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Pretty well said. I don't think really anybody is questioning what KF has accomplished at Iowa over the past dozen years or so.. His body of work is quite good. And that is exactly why I'm not "done" with Ferentz just yet. A couple more bad years and that will change, but I'm willing to wait and see.
Unfortunately, like you said, things have really tailed off in recent years. In fact, most every season since 2004 has been pretty disappointing to mediocre if you ask me, with the exception of 2008 & 09. Will KF get his old mojo back for the Iowa program and get us back to 2002-04 levels, or even 2008/09 levels? I sure hope so, but the program is really at a crossroads, and I'm not overly optimistic we'll get back there. Love to be wrong, though.
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
Norm is gone. Some of you have noticed that Kirk is nothing without Norms Defense. Some of you it would take ten years of no bowl games to figure it out. The years that Iowa has been really good it was because they had a stud on offense(Banks,Greene) to go along with Norms Defense. Other than that the offense has been such a bust under kirk that the defense has had to beat the other team while fending off kirks bad use of the clock.
Kirk owes all of his success to Norm. If you cant see that you know nothing about football.
Kirk owes all of his success to Norm. If you cant see that you know nothing about football.
This is a pretty good discussion guys. No question Freed is right about 2010. That team underperformed. Worst coaching job in KF tenure. Also no question if we dont start to turn it around this year. ( 7 wins ) KF may be in trouble. He wont lose his job but it may show he cant turn it back around. This going to be interesting. I belive he will turn it around.
GoHawks24
Well-Known Member
I apologize for being a Debbie downer in my previous post in this thead, but I've just lost a lot of hope, especially after watching the offense sputter constantly over the years. Or seeing that Kirk still doesn't know how to manage a game clock. Or not being able to recover onside kicks. There is no excuse for the last 2 that I mentioned. Those are things that get shored up in other programs, but not in Kirk's program. It's just so frustrating.
The part you are right about is poor clock managment. A real weakness for KF. Banks Green and Norm are ALL things KF gets credit for. Dont you think ?
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Agreed. 2002 & 2008 are the only years I can recall where the offense really was a big part of the success. 2003, 2004, 2009 - that was all about the D.
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
Yes kirk gets credit for hiring Norm and bringing in Banks and Greene. However it shows that he has to have a stud on offense for things to work. Did kirk become a good coach for those two years.....NO he had playmakers that didnt put him in a spot to have to think. When kirk thinks its not good. 90% of the time hes thinking about running the ball into the ground and punting 10% about bubble yum.
GoHawks24
Well-Known Member
Why hasn't that ever been shored up? If you're going to play as conservatively as Kirk does, then you'd think that proper clock management and taking advantage of every aspect of it would be key, right? It just blows my mind how he still hasn't figured it out. ****, I'll work on the sidelines and be the clock manager fo free!
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Everybody needs play makers. You are right about that. I dont agree with what you say about KF thinking.. I just think thats disrespectful. His conservative approach is about letting the D win the game I would assume. If you ever have a chance listen to Norm explain the philosophy. He breaks it down real well
I wish I knew why it continues to be a problem. I am starting to think maybe it is just a weekness of his. Everybody has them. I do. Dont you ?
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
Not stirring...its as stirred in here as it can be. Simply stating there are extremes on both sides...I lean on the optimistic/pro-KF side but also acknowledge his past weaknesses and failures. I simply believe the pros out way the coins for KF. That said...we need to see improvement to at least a bowl game THIS year and back to 7-8 wins as the rule within the next 2-3 years.
I likely will always drink a little Hawk aide...mine is just diluted with a little reality as well. Less than 6 wins is never OK...more than 9 will likely always be rare....KF has had more of the former than the latter.
Another bad year of less than 6 wins would suck but is possible given the question marks....two more years without a bowl and KF will have to go.
I think we get 6-7 wins this year and 7-9 next...but who knows.
