Not all that impressed with Payne

DuffMan

DuffMan

Well-Known Member
I’ll probably get roasted for saying this but…

I’m not that impressed with Payne’s game. Now to be fair to him he’s been thrust into a situation that is not ideal. He’s not surrounded by a strong supporting cast, he’s our only ball handler, he’s forced to play 30+ minutes a night, and he’s a true frosh. That’s a tough thing to handle for ANY PG let alone a freshman PG.

Iowa has had a pretty good string of PG’s over the last dozen years or so, and while they haven’t been NBA type players they have been awfully close. Woolridge, Oliver, and Horner were 3 very very good college PG’s. As I look at Culley I think he’s a clear step down from those 3. Again I understand his situation isn’t ideal and the overall lack of success by the team could be clouding my judgment on this but I just don’t see him being a stand out.

I can him being a solid player a few years down the road but I don’t see superstar when I look at him.
 
DuffMan said:
I’ll probably get roasted for saying this but…

I’m not that impressed with Payne’s game. Now to be fair to him he’s been thrust into a situation that is not ideal. He’s not surrounded by a strong supporting cast, he’s our only ball handler, he’s forced to play 30+ minutes a night, and he’s a true frosh. That’s a tough thing to handle for ANY PG let alone a freshman PG.

Iowa has had a pretty good string of PG’s over the last dozen years or so, and while they haven’t been NBA type players they have been awfully close. Woolridge, Oliver, and Horner were 3 very very good college PG’s. As I look at Culley I think he’s a clear step down from those 3. Again I understand his situation isn’t ideal and the overall lack of success by the team could be clouding my judgment on this but I just don’t see him being a stand out.

I can him being a solid player a few years down the road but I don’t see superstar when I look at him.
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I wouldn't worry about it. He'll be gone after this year.

P.S. I love his game
 
I like his potential. But seriously...how can you be a Big Ten point guard and not keep your head up? It drives me insane that he keeps his head down while dribbling. Also, should it always take 9 and a half seconds to get the ball to half court? He is always flirtin with that ten second call. That might not seem like a big deal. But it just seems we are usually well under 20 seconds before he even tries to get us in our offense.

Like I said, I like his potential. I just wonder if he is suited to be a full time point guard.
 
I think for a true freshman on a young team in a very tough league that he is doing pretty well. Its an easy decision to press the Hawks like MN did, and he did not get a lot of help most trips down the court. My main concern with him is that he seems to like to drive the baseline and try to hit someone for an open 3 by leaving his feet, not a high percentage maneuver most of the time. He does need to keep his head up and he needs help. I think if and when AT is back, and he gets more experience and just maybe a little more success (think like winning a game or 2) that he'll serve us well. He is a decent shooter from beyond the arc when he gets the chance.
 
I am just watching the first part of the second half of the IL game, and I don't see the head down, and he just made a nice reverse layup after driving the baseline. Nice move for the hometown folks.
 
The only time I usually see Cully put his head down is when he has a guy leaning on him and he is trying to get by him.

I really like Payne's game. Excited to see what he can do here.
 
Its hard to bag on a guy who is in charge of running this team. Look at some of the tough spots he is forced into because of our lack of offensive execution. Plus, he is hounded by defenders every second he is in the game because we dont have anyone else who can handle the ball. Its a lot for any freshman to handle and considering all of that he has done a great job imo

His stats compare favorably with Jeff Horner's freshman year
 
Maybe it's just me then. I guess I just don't see him as a game changer, he's more... average.... which can be fine I guess. I just don't get excited thinking about him and his game. He might very well end up high on a career record lists but if he does its going to be more of an indication than minuites played compared to ability. I think Jeff was more physical than Culley though I would be interested in seeing how thier stats compare.
 
I agree with Duffman that Payne isnt a game changer - i think he is a solid player tho. The problem is that solid players cant really excel on this team. If we had some other athletes that could make some plays i think Payne would be a very very solid point guard.
 
busabus114 said:
I agree with Duffman that Payne isnt a game changer - i think he is a solid player tho. The problem is that solid players cant really excel on this team. If we had some other athletes that could make some plays i think Payne would be a very very solid point guard.
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I agree. I actually think Cully has a pretty nice shot and have always been interested in seeing him get a chance to take a few more open shots each game. I think if he wasn't wasting so much time fighting to bring the ball up court and trying to start the offense he would be a nice guy to find open spots to take some 3PT shots. His ideal role almost seem like the Zach Hahn role on butler. They are the same size guy and both lefty. Zach is not the MAIN ball handler he is more of a guy who can handle the ball to relieve pressure but he is more so out there to shoot 3 point shots. Butler has other guys who can actually put the ball on the floor and get by guys.

My issue with Cully is he just can not consistently create things and Iowa is in desparate need of someone who can actually create. The reason Cully gets so much flak is he is the only guy on the team who can really even think about putting the ball on the floor consitently and he struggles (no wonder Iowa is struggling so much).

I don't think by being a sophomore will really solve anything with Cully, the skills he has are pretty much the skills he will be stuck with. I think if put in the proper role he could be a really solid player. I just don't know if Iowa is going to get the players that would actually get Cully into a more ideal role. I see him having to play the main PG/Creator role out of necessity and I don't think either role is the best way for him to get potential out of his skills.

Jeff Horner is hard to compare to Cully Payne. Jeff Horner did not have as much ball handling responsibility as Cully and Horner was surrounded by better players. They are kind of different players and it's really hard to compare them.
 
storminspank said:
He's not a game changer, but he'll be the game manager needed in this system.
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Like I have said/hinted at. Iowa has plenty of nice solid game manager type players. This team needs one of the recruits next year to be a GAME CHANGER.

I would like to see this SYSTEM actually have someone in it who can make it work properly.

Butler has at least 3 guys on the court who can consistenly put the ball on the floor and go left of right. They have struggled against a few teams this year (Minnesota, West Virginia, and Georgetown) all three of those teams are extremely long and have some great athletes who switch screens well and push your offense away from the basket.

But back to my point Iowa needs a GAME CHANGER and just because guys are a year older does not make them GAME CHANGERS all of a sudden.
 
storminspank said:
He's not a game changer, but he'll be the game manager needed in this system.
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A game manager is needed when he is playing with game changers - are we ever going to have any game changers in this system? the answer depends on how optimistic you want to be. Imo we currently dont have any.

Without game changers having a game manager is pretty pointless because there is nothing to manage since you are always behind
 
How many game changers has Iowa had under Lick?

I think the answer is ONE - Jake Kelly. Am i missing anyone?

Maybe two if you count Lil Lick
 
storminspank said:
He's not a game changer, but he'll be the game manager needed in this system.
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Game manager implies that if you give him a good/great cast he can run things efficiently. As stated above as of right now that isn't very valuable to us, we need a game changer. The best thing we can say about him is that he's solid... unfortunately we need more to win right now. I'm depressed, I think I'm going to crawl inside a bottle of Hawkeye Vodka.
 
DuffMan said:
Game manager implies that if you give him a good/great cast he can run things efficiently. As stated above as of right now that isn't very valuable to us, we need a game changer. The best thing we can say about him is that he's solid... unfortunately we need more to win right now. I'm depressed, I think I'm going to crawl inside a bottle of Hawkeye Vodka.
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This will be a game changer for the rest of your night!
 
Cully will be a serviceable Big Ten PG for Iowa. Won't make any all-star teams, but could learn not to be a detriment. The two main problems I have with his game are easily correctable, so I hold out hope.
1) Stop the freakin' jump passes -- do not leave your feet when you make a pass unless you absolutely have to. He will continue to get eaten for lunch when he does this.
2) Quit having mental lapses on defense. I'm not sure if he's just gassed, a bit lazy, or what, but I can't count the # of times he hesitates or loses concentration just long enough to find the opposing team's PG going down the lane with him frantically on the player's hip trying to catch up. Invariably, the player scores, gets fouled or both. You don't have to be fast to be in the right position and not lose focus.

If he corrects these two (and Iowa gets a major influx of talent) I think they can be successful with him at the point. Now, if he only had more footspeed......
 
storminspank said:
The only time I usually see Cully put his head down is when he has a guy leaning on him and he is trying to get by him.

I really like Payne's game. Excited to see what he can do here.
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Well, since we don't have a transition game this is probably the most important time for his head to be up. :)

Actually, lack of quickness may be the reason for his head being down in those situations. There is a tendency to put your head down and extend your opposite arm when trying to beat a quicker defender off the dribble. It's a security measure.

I still don't think he scans the court like he should as a point guard. I also think he'd be more useful as a second option.
 
Does anyone else feel like he's one peice of a puzzle but all the other peices are broken or don't fit?
 
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