If players in the NFL can change teams in midseason/midweek and play right away then surely the heck college kids that spent most of an off season and handful of weeks into this season can have enough down to play...
Nate Stanley on Oliver Martin
- Thread starter RobHowe
- Start date
NFL teams all run extremely similar offenses with similar route trees, and still have the aforementioned positions and archetypes. Apples to oranges.
My point still stands. Martin isn't even a freshman. He's a smart kid and been around plenty long enough to have the gist of it all down enough to be playing. So I don't think it's the learning curve of it keeping him out. Or it better not be.
NCHawker
Well-Known Member
RobHowe
Administrator
Thanks for watching, dudes.
NCHawker
Well-Known Member
YEP,
on a related note
There are two ends. They line up on the line of scrimmage. Sometimes they are tight and sometimes they are split.
There are 3 backs. They line up anywhere laterally across the field and depending where they are people call them different things .
Tail Back,
Full Back,
H Back offset
Slot - between tackle and TE
Wing - just outside the TE - if a player who plays TE lines up there they may call it an extra tight end.
Flanker - wider than wing.
....and I still have questions...about "covering" - you know when someone is or is not covered up? Does that mean that there are too many people on the line of scrimmage?
...and another question - - Is The X and Y wideside or strong side? Help !!
of course these re colloquialisms
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NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
You’re telling me at other schools across the country WRs only learn and are familiar with one position?
You’re telling me if you had four really good WRs that stood out above the rest you’d tell your fourth best guy to focus on only one particular position in practice, but if one of the guys at the other positions go down he won’t play while the significantly worse 5 or 6 guy plays because “that’s not his position”??
I respect your football acumen BV but that’s not accurate. It’s WR it ain’t rocket science.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
The most obvious example is the slot position. If you have a guy like Ted Ginn, you might have some plays for him in the slot to abuse a team like Iowa that will try to cover him with a LB, but you are going to work him at every position to try to find and exploit mismatches. The one thing you don't want, though, is him being the guy who gets punished on crossing routes 8 times a game out of the slot position so you're not going to waste practice teaching him every single play in the slot. But the fact of the matter is that Iowa doesn't have guys like that, we have guys who are markedly worse and we need to rely on execution on every single play. That requires reps in practice. Practice time is limited. So here we are. If we had guys like Ted Ginn or Calvin Ridley or Calvin Johnson out there running routes, I would expect to see them moved around a ton, but we don't have those dudes. We have dudes like Colin Sandeman and Dougie Fresh, so we get what we get. You really can't compare us to the top tier programs chock full of 4 and 5 star guys at WR.
Iowa has been screwing this up a lot this year. When the TE and WR, both on the same side of the center, both line up on the LOS, only the outside guy is eligible. Either the TE or the WR should be off the LOS. We usually run the ball when we do this, so it doesn't matter so much but maybe it is a "tell". When it is a pass, it can be a flag on the TE if he goes downfield. It hasn't been called every time we do it either, just sometimes. The refs threw the flag in the Purdue game and the next play we did the same thing and they didn't call it.
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NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
You do realize we are talking about a former 4* WR that 247 sports ranked as a top 50 player nationally? From what I’ve seen I wouldn’t say he’s a true slot guy or a true outside guy, all the more reason he should be working at every spot.
Based on Stanley and the O-line, there is NO REASON for any route to be run that is over 1.5 seconds. Go out Martin, we'll get it to you, but be alert, time is short. Have your hands up.
I'd add, Oliver Martin was offered by Notre Dame, Auburn, Florida, Oregon, Michigan, and a bunch of others. He's clearly very talented. Harbaugh stated he was on top of the depth chart after the Michigan Spring game this year. Some early depth charts had him starting at Michigan (at slot) and that's a very talented group. I really think he could play any WR position but I think he's better suited on the outside, one on one deep and medium throws.
NikeHawk21
Well-Known Member
This makes more sense. Martin will get more chances this week, as will Lockett. I’m actually excited for Lockett’s potential too.
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
If there is someone outside you "ON" the line of scrimmage, you are ineligible. However, if they are "OFF" the line of scrimmage, you are eligible.
Everywhere I've been, in "old school" vernacular, the X has been the split end, the Z has been the flanker, and the Y has been the tight end. As offenses evolved and started having more wide receivers and pass catchers in general the names have changed too, but they differ by offense. Back in the early 90's, Mouse Davis was the OC of the Detroit Lions and I think he called his wideouts Wing, X, Y, and Z (they were consistently 10 personnel, 4 wide sets), although his quote was "...you can call them Frick, Frack, and the Doublemint Twins for all the labels mean..." (or something like that). When Rich Rodriguez was running people into the ground with Slaton/White at WVU, he didn't have a running back...he had a super back and his super back was denoted as S on all his play designs in his playbook.
eveningnewsteam
Well-Known Member
Right, but based off the playcall, checks, etc....you should know the responsibility and routes of the other 2 spots,TE and RB. It’s not like I’m an (X) so I’m just gonna learn what X does. It shouldn’t be that difficult to plug a receiver into any of the receiver positions, if it is, it’s too damn complicated
Yes, like 'hwk23' said the two most outside players on the offensive LOS is eligible to go out for a pass.
There are only a couple of formation rules in american football. One, no more than four players can be in the backfield at the snap of the ball. Two, unless a player is in continuous motion laterally or backwards all players have to be set motionless for one count/second. And third was what I and Hwk23 mentioned above about being the end two players on the LOS being the only eligible receivers lined up on the LOS.
So this means that when a fifth or more person lines up at least a yard behind the LOS you should see an illegal formation penalty for too many in the backfield.
But at the same time a team could put 10 players on the LOS and have just the QB in the backfield if they want but in this formation their are only two eligible wide receivers on the field except for the QB with some razzle dazzle play.
When Wisky did their Jumbo package against Iowa last year they had an extra linemen on the LOS.
How do you get a Tackle Eligible play? You set your formation with only one receiver, TE or Split out, on one side of the line and they are covering up the offensive tackle. Prior to the snap a slot receiver a yard off the LOS on the other side of the formation shifts onto the LOS so there are only 3 players in the backfield. Then that first receiver mentioned who is covering up the tackle shifts back a yard to be the fourth man in the backfield. Now the Tackle is on the end of the LOS and is eligible to catch a pass. That 2nd receiver who secondly shifted back into the backfield could go in motion to the other side of the formation leaving the offensive tackle as the only receiver on his side of the field. This is a deception play.
As you might expect any player in the offensive backfield at the snap can go out for a pass.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
It would have been funny if Stanley said, "Well, Oliver's a little bit behind the other WRs right now...he doesn't catch balls behind him as well as the other guys, so that's keeping him off the field. He's working really hard and I'm throwing extra to him after practice so he becomes a better bad ball catcher."
JoeyLabasForPresident
Well-Known Member
Tell me more about this SE (X) archetype
Wow, this is complicated, no wonder Brian struggles to learn it.
