Rings hollow compared to how black people have been treated? Or how all humans throughout history have been treated?
Morehouse Story On Unconscious Bias
- Thread starter RobHowe
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Rings hollow compared to how black people have been treated? Or how all humans throughout history have been treated?
RobHowe
Administrator
So you feel white and black people have been treated the same throughout the history of this country?
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
We've once again devolved this argument into a tribalistic "us vs them" mentality....where there can't be nuance, gray areas, or, you know, non-binary choices like there used to be before we just decided set up camp on one side or the other and plant our flag there.
The true crux of this issue is this.....Gary Barta is a terrible leader, incapable of performing even the most basic of managerial responsibilities without having them completely blow up in his face. He takes issues that, for the most part, could be dealt with in private with the parties involved, and turns them into national, public relations disasters....time after time after time. He refuses to operate with transparency, even though he runs the athletic department of a state university and bristles at the idea of accountability....refusing to take any responsibility for his errors....many of which have cost the university both in hard dollars (in the millions) and in soft costs (the university's reputation).
If the President or the BOR were doing their job, Barta would be out of a job before the end of the week.
The true crux of this issue is this.....Gary Barta is a terrible leader, incapable of performing even the most basic of managerial responsibilities without having them completely blow up in his face. He takes issues that, for the most part, could be dealt with in private with the parties involved, and turns them into national, public relations disasters....time after time after time. He refuses to operate with transparency, even though he runs the athletic department of a state university and bristles at the idea of accountability....refusing to take any responsibility for his errors....many of which have cost the university both in hard dollars (in the millions) and in soft costs (the university's reputation).
If the President or the BOR were doing their job, Barta would be out of a job before the end of the week.
GotTimDodge
Well-Known Member
We need KF to give Dolph another award right about now.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Did anyone else's mother tell you not to say 'Geez' because it was short for Jesus (thus, you were taking the Lord's name in vain)? OK, just me? Carry on!
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
tell me, 1977, what are MY unconscious biases? don't miss any. this is important.
Edit: I'll give you some help. I'm half Irish and half Mexican and my mom was born in Mexico. What are my unconscious biases?
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You didn't specify country. Has a living black person ever been fired from their job for saying something about white people?
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
Did anyone else's mother tell you not to say 'Geez' because it was short for Jesus (thus, you were taking the Lord's name in vain)? OK, just me? Carry on!
i always that it was short for gee whiz. so i guess this is a good example on intent v impact. so i say geez, thinking "gee whiz" but someone hears "the lords name in vain." should i be condemned, ruined, stoned?
if there is a dispute between two people, it is the responsibility of those two people to work it out. it is NOT for a 3rd party to arbitrate for all of society on which meaning i intended.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
As a matter of fact, 'Jeepers Creepers' was a replacement for 'Jesus Christ'. Sort of like 'fudge' replaces ... well, you know.
Language is amazing (like statistics) ... folks can make what they want of it.
You are guessing if you try to say why Dolph chose King Kong. Maybe it was unconscious bias and maybe it wasn't. There is no way to know for sure. I doubt Dolph even knows for sure.
There is clearly an issue with all races having unconscious biases. Everyone should work on this. If a black man was offended by what Dolph said, it's either because he had a really hard life or he was raised to think white people all hate black people. Either way, he needs to be educated on his uncontrolled bias so he can better make decisions on what is and isn't offensive. If white people are offended by what Dolph said, then I have a really strong opinion of them that I wont share.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
As a matter of fact, 'Geepers Creepers' was a replacement for 'Jesus Christ'. Sort of like 'fudge' replaces ... well, you know.
i agree rob. and i think we both agree on that. my point was that i literally had always thought "gee whiz" and so i could have been persecuted, ruined, for something i was completely unaware of. how can a third party decide my intent and then punish me for the intent they placed onto my words?
As a matter of fact, 'Geepers Creepers' was a replacement for 'Jesus Christ'. Sort of like 'fudge' replaces ... well, you know.
Isnt it British people who call cigarettes fags? A gay person should never get offended on this, no matter how often he was called that same word in a derogatory manner.
I can get called a dork by some guy trying to pick a fight with me or can get called one by a friend after saying something dorky. It's up to me to do a proper job of understanding the difference. Maybe I was a dork growing up and everyone called me one to pick on me. I would still understand the difference.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
then what are my biases? you said "There is clearly an issue with all races having unconscious biases."
i happen to believe that "races" are alike. they are human and they have the same human wants/needs/desires. racism as a bias is learned. it is not a natural human trait. humans tend to live in communities of like minded/likenesses. but by grouping together like that, they are learning to stick with people who are more same than not same. then, when someone from outside the group tries to enter, they could be attacked. that is all learned and not unconscious.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
A bunch of white crackers talking about something they know nothing about....that's all this thread is. Now, I meant the term "crackers" as a compliment since they stereotypically are focused and single minded.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
Sort of like how referees try to determine the intent of a player who elbows an opponent accidentally? Or an umpire tries to determine if a pitcher hits a batter intentionally (pun intended).
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
it sure is a horrible feeling being called a racist (in my opinion, the biggest scourge within humanity) when i am absolutely and without question not a racist.
to me, the point of this should be that if bruno fernando was offended, then dolph should have spoken directly to him and they work it out. no one can ever know the true intent of another person. what has been lost in this society is the realization that, sometimes, people offend and can be offended but no intent to offend was meant. a heartfelt and true apology used to be acceptable. has bruno fernando stated he was offended? if he has, then dolph should still reach out to him. but gary barta and learfield comms shouldn't be the arbitors to settle the issue and take a side by applying an intent towards what was said.
RobHowe
Administrator
I think there is a historical basis for there being impact regarding Dolph’s statement. As I’ve stated here and elsewhere I don’t believe there was racist intent.
It’s not my job to say what the punishment should be or if there should be one. Personally, I think it’s too heavy handed. I’d have been fine with an apology. As you can read on these boards, that punishment would be too much for some.
I’ve apologized plenty of times for doing something that hurt or bothered someone else when I didn’t intend to. We all have.
ArvadaHawk
Well-Known Member
Sort of like how referees try to determine the intent of a player who elbows an opponent accidentally? Or an umpire tries to determine if a pitcher hits a batter intentionally (pun intended).
right. those are open to abuse by the 3rd party. but now, at least now rules are put in that sort of define intent because, otherwise, it can be abused.
Here is the ideal way this should have gone:
- Dolph compares Brune to King Kong based upon his physical dominance.
- A black person who is sensitive to that metaphor (wouldn't you be if you had EVER been referred to as a monkey at any point?) hears it and thinks, "He doesn't know the impact (stole Rob's word) of what he just said."
- Said black person contacts the U of Iowa Athletic Dept, thoughtfully explaining why that word doesn't only imply physical dominance, and how other connotations are attached for some based upon a long history of hurtful language. Said person would like to communicate these thoughts to Dolph.
- Dolph and the person sit down together, or exchange correspondence. Dolph says, "The obviously was not my intent, I have used similar metaphors repeatedly." The other person says, "I understand that, and I don't think you are a bad person, but this is why I don't like that metaphor." They both come away with a better understanding.
- Dolph and the U of I thank the person for providing their perspective. Dolph then brings it up during the next broadcast: "At the end of the MD game, I intended to compliment Bruno's play by comparing him to King Kong. Recently, somebody reached out to me to explain how that metaphor can be interpreted differently by different people. I sincerely thank that individual for a thoughtful discussion, and I will work to avoid that metaphor going forward." The world moves on.
We don't know how things actually went (thanks U of I Athletics administration), and I won't presume to guess. But we know how these things to often go:
- Somebody says something without intent but which could have a negative impact on some.
- Somebody screen shots their comment, plasters it across the net far and wide, and cries, "THIS is the scum of the earth! Come, point your fingers, shame with me! We are the enlightened ones that must elevate humanity from its doldrums!"
- A huge crowd rushes to shame the shamers: "PC culture run amok!" "Playing the race-card/sex-card/whatever-card!" "Snowflakes!". Some of these are concerned about free speech. Some just hate anything that smacks of liberal. Some are bigots. But they are all lumped together as awkward bedfellows shouting down the original shaming.
- Some thoughtful people who think the reaction is over the top are afraid to comment because they would then become scum.
- Everyone yells back and forth, no one listens, and eventually something new comes along to be outraged about. Nothing was accomplished, nothing changes.
