Consistency in oversigning will be dealt with when the major conferences break away from the NCAA.
Miller vs DiNardo on Twitter
- Thread starter PeoriaHWKI
- Start date
DodgerHawki
Well-Known Member
What is Dinardo's vision? He never did articulate it other than "B1G needs to get better players." Well, yes they do. I'm sure there are things the conference teams could be doing, but it doesn't change the fact that there are way more elite players in the SEC footprint (including Texas) than in the B1G footprint. For most players, competing in their home state or closer to home is the preferred option over going to a school in colder weather, in a state far away where the kid's family isn't going to be able to see them plays as often.
No amount of "vision" or "plan" or what not is going to change that. Urban Meyer can complain about the recruiting of the other teams in the league all he wants when he is at the premier school in the state that produces the most top-flight talent in the Big Ten.
A year or so ago I did a post comparing the population and trends in the South vs. the teams in the B1G footprint. It's not good news if you are a B1G fan. The problem is only going to continue to get worse in coming years. Not only are the northern states losing population or not growing as fast as the southern states, but the amount of high school ages persons is dropping as well, at least in comparison with the South.
I am not sure what the answer is, short of reversing the population trends. Perhaps economic factors change to drive people back into the B1G footprint, but I'm not seeing what would cause that right now.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
Gerry posted that he felt allowing official visits in the summer would help out an Iowa and also that Iowa should invest more in recruiting personnel. He was also talking about Big Ten programs needing to keep up...I am speaking mostly generalities here as I can't get on and post the actual tweet this ten seconds.
I don't care how much the Big Ten spends, it won't matter. Population trends are not in their favor...football can be close to year round in the south. The culture that worships football in the south does not exist in the north...athletic departments offer fewer opportunities for scholarships in other sports in the south than they do in the Big Ten...do we want those to go away so those funds can divert to football? Even then, its still not about money.
Schools like Iowa (and everyone not named Michigan or Ohio State in the B1G) are not going to go into Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, Texas, etc and pull four and five star kids..they are going to get the kids who are either undersized with motors, or kids who are academic risks...the haves get to cherry pick...those who aren't, they get the leftovers.
For most programs up north (and most everywhere not in the SEC) it's about having to identify and then develop talent...South Carolina doesn't have the history that Iowa has over the past 30 years but it recruits at a higher level and gets athletes Iowa doesn't get. It's geography and demographics.
to just wish something is gonna change, or 'demand change', is a fruitless pursuit. There is a deck, and it's stacked against most of the schools north of the Mason-Dixon line right now.
Thankfully, there are still a lot of eyeballs in Big Ten country, they will still get good bowl game dance partners, the BTN will still fund the athletic departments and nine conference games might actually be better than eight, so they can keep playing one another and not schools outside the league as often. Basically the Big Ten goes Amish
I don't care how much the Big Ten spends, it won't matter. Population trends are not in their favor...football can be close to year round in the south. The culture that worships football in the south does not exist in the north...athletic departments offer fewer opportunities for scholarships in other sports in the south than they do in the Big Ten...do we want those to go away so those funds can divert to football? Even then, its still not about money.
Schools like Iowa (and everyone not named Michigan or Ohio State in the B1G) are not going to go into Florida, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, Texas, etc and pull four and five star kids..they are going to get the kids who are either undersized with motors, or kids who are academic risks...the haves get to cherry pick...those who aren't, they get the leftovers.
For most programs up north (and most everywhere not in the SEC) it's about having to identify and then develop talent...South Carolina doesn't have the history that Iowa has over the past 30 years but it recruits at a higher level and gets athletes Iowa doesn't get. It's geography and demographics.
to just wish something is gonna change, or 'demand change', is a fruitless pursuit. There is a deck, and it's stacked against most of the schools north of the Mason-Dixon line right now.
Thankfully, there are still a lot of eyeballs in Big Ten country, they will still get good bowl game dance partners, the BTN will still fund the athletic departments and nine conference games might actually be better than eight, so they can keep playing one another and not schools outside the league as often. Basically the Big Ten goes Amish
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I read their little debate and neither of them had very many answers. Jon did good outlying what the problems were but that is the easy part, finding solutions is tougher. The competitive balance between the SEC and B1G will never even out in it's current state, the kids down south grow up dreaming to play in the SEC, not in the midwest. I think the B1G could help themselves by adding a few teams from the south to expand their footprint but that would never make up for the gap in recruiting. Notre Dame refusing to join also hurts as they are the most storied football program in the midwest.
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
I dont have the answers...if I did, someone would be paying me a lot of money for that.
That said, there is no answer to the latitude and longitude problem.
Dinardo brought it up. Why would he do that?
On that note, check out the difference between the home-to-college move of 2-star vs. 5-star recruits. Those 5-stars with their choice of destination head (or, more accurately, stay) south:
| Stars | Average Distance | Average Move N/S | Average Move E/W |
| ★★ | 299 miles | 180 miles N | 78 miles W |
| ★★★ | 255 miles | 134 miles N | 13 miles E |
| ★★★★ | 234 miles | 50 miles N | 25 miles E |
| ★★★★★ | 260 miles | 39 miles S | 72 miles E |
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
'sup brah? Interesting how big wins like the game on Saturday bring all the old guys back around.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;IpsTRbJKoa0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpsTRbJKoa0[/video]
SamBrownlee48
Well-Known Member
I know it is a little different out here on the west coast, but Oregon is further north than most "northern" schools and in a state where the weather doesn't allow year-round football. I generally agree with what you are saying, but you should consider the whole map and figure out why "west of the Rockies" plays by different rules.
My personal take is that Iowa is harmed not only by being north of the Mason-Dixon line, but also by being west of the Mississippi. That table Lyddea shows bolsters my take. as it shows top end players generally travel south and east, not north and west
SonofaSailor
Well-Known Member
Honestly I'm beginning to be ok with the idea of the BIG de-emphasizing athletics like Delaney talked about when discussing the law suit...there's so much money involved anymore...and I don't agree with paying the players...I'm sorry...but a $80,000 (if not more) college education is more than enough...Say what you want about practicing etc...but there are plenty of students out there taking the same coursework (if not probably more/tougher) and working jobs to make ends meet...these players are not special... They're still students. (view of a soon to be graduated college student)
I LOVE following college sports...but start paying them (legally...looking at you Auburn/OSU/Bama)...count me out...I'll just enjoy my pro sports teams at that point.
I LOVE following college sports...but start paying them (legally...looking at you Auburn/OSU/Bama)...count me out...I'll just enjoy my pro sports teams at that point.
ShadasRevenge
Well-Known Member
LOLZ, wut?
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
Oregon is pretty much plying children with candy. And West of the Rockies is altogether its own culture...and going east of the Rockies is the road less traveled.
Over signing is wrong. Some things are just plain clear and simple...this is one of them. Graduation rates matter; and I mean REAL graduation rates. Don't agree? Watch pro football instead of college football...this is still about education. Not very many kids will play in the NFL, which stands for "Not for Long." Most will have regular jobs.Colleges that offer a broad range of scholarships for sports from football to rowing...GREAT! Football and basketball income supports a lot of "minor" sports...GREAT! Strict rules of behavior for athletes involved in varsity sports who are receiving full scholarships...as it should be. National academic and research reputations for (almost, get in line Nebraska) every university in the Big Ten...required! Who led the charge on recruitment of African American athletes? Would that be the Big Ten? How does the SEC measure up in these areas? Wow. Florida gave its first scholarship to an African American in 1968. Probably, like Notre Dame, because they were starting to get their ***** kicked by schools who had offered minorities scholarships for years. How about this: I don't think we should pay any attention to what the media says about the SEC being so far above every one else. Why do we care what they think? The Big Ten has a great following among their fans. We have the BT Network, which brings millions of $ to our schools. We have a footprint from the Midwest to the East Coast. The conference race and the Big Ten Championship football game is the focus of everyone from Nebraska to Happy Valley. We dominate the college basketball world with regularity. Why in the hell do we continue to obsess about our national reputation? Why do we endlessly debate our disadvantages when it comes to recruiting...which is all about geography. Geez. Get over it and watch the Big Ten. We are the premier conference now and always have been. Well, we were until the media decided differently. You want to find the enemy? Someone to blame? Try the media...they don't report the news...they make up the news. End of Rant.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
I know you don't, nobody does. The south and west coast have a huge advantage when you can train all year. But in the south they eat, drink, and sleep football. Most of the best athletes wind up as football players while up here basketball and a small amount go out for wrestling and hockey, toss in the population factors and it is easy to see why there is a competive disadvantage.
First of all, why is it only the Big Ten that gets compared to the SEC? Yes, the SEC is the best conference, but there are 3 other power conferences (besides B1G) that don't get the "declining" articles.
Second, college football budgets are getting ridiculous; perspective is needed.
Second, college football budgets are getting ridiculous; perspective is needed.
ssckelley
Well-Known Member
Pac14 has some of the same advantages the SEC has but without the craze, the B12 has Texas and you see how big of a difference there is between their northern schools and southern schools.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
Oregon has two factors working in its favor.
1. California is loaded with talent, too.
2. Nike.
Its from the middle of this longish article over at BHGP.
[video=youtube;UPw-3e_pzqU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU[/video]
