Miller: Ferentz Under Siege

[JonDMiller]

fact of the matter is that there was gross irresponsibility on behalf of individuals within the Iowa coaching staff. someone needs to (and likely will be) held accountable. who that person is remains in question.

Actually that is not a fact in the matter at all. These workouts have been conducted for years and years without incident. There is an investigation ongoing to see what caused 13 players to need medical attention. There are no such facts as of right now that point to gross irresponsibility.

If that becomes a matter of fact, then people will be held accountable.

 

[tanabs]

Actually that is not a fact in the matter at all. These workouts have been conducted for years and years without incident. There is an investigation ongoing to see what caused 13 players to need medical attention. There are no such facts as of right now that point to gross irresponsibility.

If that becomes a matter of fact, then people will be held accountable.

"According to a parent, a strength coach said in a meeting before the sessions that the Hawkeyes had failed to finish games too often last season and that "we'll find out who wants to be here." -ESPN

i dont know how this sounds to you, but if the above quote is true, then gross irresponsibility is about the only explanation.

and i know its your job to wave the flag, but be real here jon. there is no way that the exact same workout that has been done for the last 12 years suddenly caused 13 players to fall ill out of no where. something was diffferent

 

[SirJamaLot]

I wish the national media would look at Coach Ferentz's whole body of work before trying to crucify him. Coach Doyle is very well respected and not inexperienced. What happened was wrong and I will bet will never happen again but unless it does, back off and go after some real criminals.

 

[HawkeyeShane]

"According to a parent, a strength coach said in a meeting before the sessions that the Hawkeyes had failed to finish games too often last season and that "we'll find out who wants to be here." -ESPN

i dont know how this sounds to you, but if the above quote is true, then gross irresponsibility is about the only explanation.

and i know its your job to wave the flag, but be real here jon. there is no way that the exact same workout that has been done for the last 12 years suddenly caused 13 players to fall ill out of no where. something was diffferent

No sh!t Sherlock...and how bout we find out what it is before we start casting aspersions on everyone...d-bag.

 

[tanabs]

I wish the national media would look at Coach Ferentz's whole body of work before trying to crucify him. Coach Doyle is very well respected and not inexperienced. What happened was wrong and I will bet will never happen again but unless it does, back off and go after some real criminals.

people keep making this argument in defense of ferentz. I agree, he is a good guy and for anyone that knows the Iowa program or kirk personally you most certainly respect him. However, his entire body of work is irrelevant in this situation. I could live my entire life following in the path of the lord and doing everthything right, but if then at the age of 65 I have a little too much to drink and accidentally get into a car accident, the way I've lived my life would have absolutely no bearing on the consequences for my irresponsibility. no one would just say "yea, he got behind the wheel drunk and caused an accident, but lets let it go because of his entire body of work throughout his life".

also, I know in the doyle article for sure he is saying that someone needs to be held responible inside the program, not necessarily ferentz. as the figure head of the team, ferentz is going to take the heat even if it wasn't necessarily his direct responsibility (or lack there of) that caused this.

 

[tanabs]

No sh!t Sherlock...and how bout we find out what it is before we start casting aspersions on everyone...d-bag.

I'll just post this again

"According to a parent, a strength coach said in a meeting before the sessions that the Hawkeyes had failed to finish games too often last season and that "we'll find out who wants to be here." -ESPN

this would indicate that someone on the football staff knew exactly what they were doing and unfortunately it went too far resulting in injury. sorry for thinking that that is completely ridiculous and not being willing to side with the argument of "it must have been a freak accident".

 

[DexterMorgan]

people keep making this argument in defense of ferentz. I agree, he is a good guy and for anyone that knows the Iowa program or kirk personally you most certainly respect him. However, his entire body of work is irrelevant in this situation. I could live my entire life following in the path of the lord and doing everthything right, but if then at the age of 65 I have a little too much to drink and accidentally get into a car accident, the way I've lived my life would have absolutely no bearing on the consequences for my irresponsibility. no one would just say "yea, he got behind the wheel drunk and caused an accident, but lets let it go because of his entire body of work throughout his life".

also, I know in the doyle article for sure he is saying that someone needs to be held responible inside the program, not necessarily ferentz. as the figure head of the team, ferentz is going to take the heat even if it wasn't necessarily his direct responsibility (or lack there of) that caused this.

That's a terrible comparison to what happened in this case. Just terrible.

 

[clonedude]

Actually that is not a fact in the matter at all. These workouts have been conducted for years and years without incident. There is an investigation ongoing to see what caused 13 players to need medical attention. There are no such facts as of right now that point to gross irresponsibility.

If that becomes a matter of fact, then people will be held accountable.

As you said yourself Jon, there are NO facts right now. So you cannot state for a fact that these were the same workouts that have been conducted for years and years without incident. None of us know that.

And in the end, it probably won't matter. What is causing all the negative media attention is how Iowa has handled this mess. As you've indicated yourself, it was not handled well at all. And it's nearly impossible to go back and change the way it's been handled now. It's too late.

Is that fair? No. But that's the world we live in.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I'll just post this again

A) "According to a parent, a strength coach said in a meeting before the sessions that the Hawkeyes had failed to finish games too often last season and that "we'll find out who wants to be here." -ESPN

B) this would indicate that someone on the football staff knew exactly what they were doing and unfortunately it went too far resulting in injury. sorry for thinking that that is completely ridiculous and not being willing to side with the argument of "it must have been a freak accident".

I'd have to disagree with the way you came to the conclusion that A means B.

 

[tanabs]

That's a terrible comparison to what happened in this case. Just terrible.

it is not an apple to apples comparison, but the point stands to reason. why in either situation would an individuals "entire body of work" be taken into account?

 

[JonDMiller]

"According to a parent, a strength coach said in a meeting before the sessions that the Hawkeyes had failed to finish games too often last season and that "we'll find out who wants to be here." -ESPN

i dont know how this sounds to you, but if the above quote is true, then gross irresponsibility is about the only explanation.

and i know its your job to wave the flag, but be real here jon. there is no way that the exact same workout that has been done for the last 12 years suddenly caused 13 players to fall ill out of no where. something was diffferent

IF we learn that there were additional and punitive aspects to this workout that were not present in the past, then we'll talk about that and deal with that IF it arises.

Given that none of us knows that, at least on this board, nor at ESPN, I don't think its unfair to wait until we do know that, given the track record Kirk and Chris Doyle have amassed in their careers. I realize that may be a novel approach for some, but something to consider

 

[DexterMorgan]

it is not an apple to apples comparison, but the point stands to reason. why in either situation would an individuals "entire body of work" be taken into account?

It's an Apples to Prostate exam comparison.

 

[tanabs]

I'd have to disagree with the way you came to the conclusion that A means B.

care to explain your rationale?

 

[HawkeyeShane]

I'll just post this again

"According to a parent, a strength coach said in a meeting before the sessions that the Hawkeyes had failed to finish games too often last season and that "we'll find out who wants to be here." -ESPN

this would indicate that someone on the football staff knew exactly what they were doing and unfortunately it went too far resulting in injury. sorry for thinking that that is completely ridiculous and not being willing to side with the argument of "it must have been a freak accident".

You can post it 200 more times and it'll still not mean anything until all of the facts are gathered...but hey, feel free...For all you know, the staff may have taken it easy on a veteran team last winter and it backfired this past season on the field and they simply went back to the original formula...OH CRAP! Now what? See, neither of us knows what the context of the comment was, so chill out and let it play out...seriously, holy crap...

 

[DexterMorgan]

care to explain your rationale?

The reasoning has been explained multiple times in many threads already. But i'll give the cliffs notes.

1) that sort of motivational speech is used in every locker room. I know because i've been in those locker rooms. It's motivation 101.

2) Saying "they knew exactly what they were doing" implies this is the outcome they were looking for. Even you can't honestly believe that.

 

[tanabs]

The reasoning has been explained multiple times in many threads already. But i'll give the cliffs notes.

1) that sort of motivational speech is used in every locker room. I know because i've been in those locker rooms. It's motivation 101.

2) Saying "they knew exactly what they were doing" implies this is the outcome they were looking for. Even you can't honestly believe that.

I do not believe the coaches or anyone wanted what what happened to happen, that is ridiculous. but not taking the consequences of what could happen into consideration is careless and irresponsible.

 

[JonDMiller]

And tanabs, I certainly don't need a flag waving Iowa State fan here pretending there are facts on a matter when at present, there are not. It doesn't mean everyone can't be concerned, because there were at one point 13 players in the hospital. Everyone wants answers, including every Iowa fan I know. But given the track record of the leadership involved, as I have witnessed and experienced it, I'll wait for the real facts and answers to come about before looking for a hanging tree. The Board of Regents is involved, as they should be, and there will be answers.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I do not believe the coaches or anyone wanted what what happened to happen, that is ridiculous. but not taking the consequences of what could happen into consideration is careless and irresponsible.

That's quite a different statement from your original.

 

[JonDMiller]

I do not believe the coaches or anyone wanted what what happened to happen, that is ridiculous. but not taking the consequences of what could happen into consideration is careless and irresponsible.

This statement is at odds with itself, on its face.

You are assuming that Iowa knowingly conducted this workout with a consideration that Rhabdo was a possibility, yet still went forward with it. That's a reach of grand proportions.

Hell, there is a risk involved with any workout. Most are miniscule if a person has been checked out cardio wise and up and down and back and forth.

This workout has taken place for years with no effects like this. 50+ other players, if not more, did this workout last week and suffered no effects. Kirk Ferentz's own son was as part of it, and his own son was a part of it in the past.

There is something else here, and the investigation is going to find that out. Whether or not higher ups were involved in that something else, or if that something else was a behavior, a choice, an ingestion or whatever by the student athletes, we'll find all those things out too

 

[DexterMorgan]

This statement is at odds with itself, on its face.

You are assuming that Iowa knowingly conducted this workout with a consideration that Rhabdo was a possibility, yet still went forward with it. That's a reach of grand proportions.

Hell, there is a risk involved with any workout. Most are miniscule if a person has been checked out cardio wise and up and down and back and forth.

This workout has taken place for years with no effects like this. 50+ other players, if not more, did this workout last week and suffered no effects. Kirk Ferentz's own son was as part of it, and his own son was a part of it in the past.

There is something else here, and the investigation is going to find that out. Whether or not higher ups were involved in that something else, or if that something else was a behavior, a choice, an ingestion or whatever by the student athletes, we'll find all those things out too

Jon,

His post comparing the situation to someone getting in a drunk driving accident should tell you everything you need to know.