Miller & Deace Podcast: Deace Thinks Iowa Can Go Undefeated

[hawkeyebob62]

In terms of improving as the season goes, throw bowl games out the window. It's well established that Iowa's coaching staff, especially when Norm was around, was stellar at bowl prep. To use the 2006 season as an example: that team did not get better as the year went along. They played a great bowl game, but they did anything but steadily improve week-to-week. Getting steadily better is what is typically implied when someone says a team gets better as the season goes along. Not sputtering for two months before pulling things back together for one game.

2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2009 and 2013 are all years that the team steadily improved as the season progressed. Some of them more so than others, but they were all better teams in November than they were in August/September. 2005, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011 and 2012 weren't. Some of those teams started hot and regressed, others just stayed pretty stagnant throughout the year (2011 and 2012 both fit that description.

You can point out that the teams people first point to as a counterargument lacked leadership and/or strong line play, but the reasons for lack of improvement is irrelevant. That's not what's being discussed.

The bottom line is that in 8 of KF's seasons, the team has made steady progress throughout the season. In 6 of them, it hasn't. I didn't count 1999, because I'm not old enough to remember that team (they were at such a low starting point, I could see them going either way). But looking at the years the team did improve, you see a 5/6-year run at the start of KF's tenure, and then just three seasons like that since. Personally, I think it's pretty clear that people started saying "KF's teams always improve" about 10 or so years ago, because up to that point, they had. But the sentiment has stuck around when it has long since stopped being true.

Kirk is absolutely a good football coach, IMO. But it hasn't been a given that the team will improve throughout the year for a long time.

Misguided post. You're talking about, basically, the last several years where there has been attrition, transition and system change. Throw THAT out the window (everybody seems to choose what to throw, what to keep, what counts, what doesn't, etc.).

Bottom line, a "typical" KF team is better in November than in September.

 

[imported_ankle23]

You are correct whatever went down at Coker's residence (and lead to his suspension) happened on the night before the bus left for Minny. As far as it being an intern who coached the game it was Ol Country Jerr as per Jerr's Wiki page - "A highlight of the 2011 season was a win over Big Ten rival Iowa"

looking back on it - they wouldn't take coker out of the game even tho he was gassed and looked to come out - i'm sure they were handing out punishment, knowing what had *happened*.

kill coached that game.

 

[tm3308]

Misguided post. You're talking about, basically, the last several years where there has been attrition, transition and system change. Throw THAT out the window (everybody seems to choose what to throw, what to keep, what counts, what doesn't, etc.).

Bottom line, a "typical" KF team is better in November than in September.

Again, the reasons for lack of improvement don't really matter. If your house is on fire, does it really matter if it was started by an electrical short or an arsonist? You can say that, when all the players are healthy or there's solid depth, the team gets better throughout the year. But you can't guarantee health, so it's not a given that this will be a year where they improve like that throughout the year.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Again, the reasons for lack of improvement don't really matter. If your house is on fire, does it really matter if it was started by an electrical short or an arsonist? You can say that, when all the players are healthy or there's solid depth, the team gets better throughout the year. But you can't guarantee health, so it's not a given that this will be a year where they improve like that throughout the year.

Then you missed my point. Basically, any way you look at it, on "average", KF teams get better as the year wears on. It's that simple.

 

[tm3308]

Then you missed my point. Basically, any way you look at it, on "average", KF teams get better as the year wears on. It's that simple.

It's been pretty much 50-50 throughout his tenure. Seems like you can't say definitively one way or the other. Which is why the sentiment is a little odd.

 

[AdamHawk]

It's been pretty much 50-50 throughout his tenure. Seems like you can't say definitively one way or the other. Which is why the sentiment is a little odd.

I would disagree with your recollection of some of the past seasons. First, I would argue that they DID in fact improve in 2005. The only losses they had in their last 7 games were 'flukey' losses to Michigan in OT (couple bad calls in that game) and by 1 to Northwestern, in which they needed an onside kick to beat us. In 2007 and 2011 the improvement wasn't quite as obvious but 2007 they started 2-4 and finished 6-6 and in 2011 they beat a solid Michigan team and only lost to ranked teams that were clearly better than them in November.

I would definitely say that most KF teams clearly improve as the season progresses. Sure there were exceptions here and there but in most cases you could see obvious improvement throughout the year.

 

[ICHawk24]

I would say most KF teams improve as the season progresses.

Just as I would say most college football teams improve as the season progresses.

Nothing to report, really.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I would disagree with your recollection of some of the past seasons. First, I would argue that they DID in fact improve in 2005. The only losses they had in their last 7 games were 'flukey' losses to Michigan in OT (couple bad calls in that game) and by 1 to Northwestern, in which they needed an onside kick to beat us. In 2007 and 2011 the improvement wasn't quite as obvious but 2007 they started 2-4 and finished 6-6 and in 2011 they beat a solid Michigan team and only lost to ranked teams that were clearly better than them in November.

I would definitely say that most KF teams clearly improve as the season progresses. Sure there were exceptions here and there but in most cases you could see obvious improvement throughout the year.

You're right - the d-line managed to stop getting thrown around as the season progressed in 2005. Of course, the schedule that included Indiana, Illinois, Purdue and Minnesota in those last 7 games didn't hurt either. We had one decent win in 2005 and that was against Wisconsin.

In terms of the bowl game following the 2006 season, two factors kept us in that game - that Ross kid from Texas was just sleepwalking out there and Brodell/O'Keefe caught their DBs napping a few times early. Second factor that kept us in the game was Greg Davis calling the plays for Texas. That team had turned over a lot of talent from the national title team the year before and that last drive in the first half after the illegal procedure followed by the Tate pick was like the drive where McCoy finally clicked and started his trajectory as a good college QB.

 

[pekurhawk]

we will be undefeated through August-FACT

 

[ohhawk]

I would say most KF teams improve as the season progresses.

Just as I would say most college football teams improve as the season progresses.

Nothing to report, really.

Agree, and I don't think with a winning percentage of 63.3% (first half) vs. a winning percentage of 52.3% (second half) of all games (including bowls) over the 15 year career at Iowa that our head coach can clearly lay claim to too much that is unique in this respect vs. what numerous other head coaches have done at other Div. 1 programs.

 

[RocknRollface]

Iowa takes 2 and 3 star talents and the coaches develop them into NFL players....Other schools get the 4 and 5 star talent but they do not improve....Granted they are better players from the beginning and might have peaked sooner or don't have as much room to improve.

Lots of other teams improve regardless of stars.

 

[RocknRollface]

To be fair, in 06' Iowa had no business playing Texas and made a heck of a game out of it.
That 2010 Minnie game was absurd. They dominated the entire game, and still found a way to lose. Luckily for us the staff now won't allow things like that to happen again right?? I think the Hawks had something like 250 yards rushing in that Minnie game. It's still so baffling how they lost.

I actually think most of KF teams do get better though. The staff has always done a pretty damn good job of developing players. I think the new staff has done an excellent job so far. Granted we really only have one season to go off of, but still it was definitely a solid year that got the train on the tracks again. The 08' team was probably the best example though. I still stand by that was the best Iowa team in the KF era at the end of the year. Greene coming back the next year is probably the biggest what if in Hawkeye history.

I do want to take a look at two factors though. In those 4 years did the team have a solid leader on both sides of the ball, and how was the play in the trenches? I know that the lines were relatively weak in most of those years.. Which we know is pretty much the staple for good KF teams. How about the leaders? I think back to when King left on defense. I feel like they never managed to find a replacement for his leadership until last year. The 2010 team you could definitely see King was missing that's for sure.

07' is the only real anomaly for me. The criminals.. The stand.. The hype surrounding that tOSU game. What a bizarre year. At least they pulled in a pretty good recruiting class.

So having like guys on defense who would go on to play in the nfl within the next two years wasn't enough?

They needed Mitch King too?

Thats a lame excuse for a season loaded with talent where the guys in charge and the QB scewed the pooch.

 

[AdamHawk]

Agree, and I don't think with a winning percentage of 63.3% (first half) vs. a winning percentage of 52.3% (second half) of all games (including bowls) over the 15 year career at Iowa that our head coach can clearly lay claim to too much that is unique in this respect vs. what numerous other head coaches have done at other Div. 1 programs.

I think you could take a first half vs. second half comparison for pretty much every B10 team and you would find the first half % higher than the second half. It's not like Iowa is the only team scheduling pushovers out of the gate.

I do agree with your assertion that most teams improve throughout the course of the season. If teams didn't progress, the coach would be out of a job in most cases.

 

[ICHawk24]

First and second half of the Big Ten schedule would be interesting to see.

 

[ohhawk]

First and second half of the Big Ten schedule would be interesting to see.

I agree, so some quick manual labor shows..........55% winning in the first half of the BIG schedule and 51.6% on the back end.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I agree, so some quick manual labor shows..........55% winning in the first half of the BIG schedule and 51.6% on the back end.

So winning percentage actually goes down? Wow. I think peoples' perception is skewed because Iowa had that run from 2002-2004 where they were nearly unbeatable in October and November. But sadly, that was already 10 years ago. Time flies.

 

[ICHawk24]

I agree, so some quick manual labor shows..........55% winning in the first half of the BIG schedule and 51.6% on the back end.

Wow. That certainly doesn't paint a picture of improvement.

 

[ohhawk]

......and if you wanted to single out the 5 most recent seasons the disparity grows wider with 65% success in the first half of the BIG season and 40% in the second half. Four of the last five years in conference play our win totals have been higher in the first half of the season vs. the second half. Only last year was the exception and it wasn't that significant with 2 wins in the first half and 3 in the second.

I don't know that anything can be made of this as each season is different with scheduling, injuries, experience, etc. Just the way the cookie crumbles I guess. Doesn't disprove that we don't get better as the season goes on many times but the same is likely true for most opponents as has been stated before.

 

[ohhawk]

......and if you wanted to single out the 5 most recent seasons the disparity grows wider with 65% success in the first half of the BIG season and 40% in the second half.Four of the last five years in conference play our win totals have been higher in the first half of the season vs. the second half. Only last year was the exception and it wasn't that significant with 2 wins in the first half and 3 in the second.

I don't know that anything can be made of this as each season is different with scheduling, injuries, experience, etc. Just the way the cookie crumbles I guess. Doesn't disprove that we don't get better as the season goes on many times but the same is likely true for most opponents as has been stated before.

*small correction........ should read equal to or higher because the 2011 season we were 2-2 in the first and second half of the season.

 

[hoffahawk]

In terms of the bowl game following the 2006 season, two factors kept us in that game - that Ross kid from Texas was just sleepwalking out there and Brodell/O'Keefe caught their DBs napping a few times early. Second factor that kept us in the game was Greg Davis calling the plays for Texas. That team had turned over a lot of talent from the national title team the year before and that last drive in the first half after the illegal procedure followed by the Tate pick was like the drive where McCoy finally clicked and started his trajectory as a good college QB.

Lame troll.

speed kills brah-

[video=youtube;3ghxMRagbRI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ghxMRagbRI[/video]