Michigan, Nebraska and Iowa?

MelroseHawkins

MelroseHawkins

Well-Known Member
The daunted Michigan! Are they? We all acknowledge that Nebby lives in the past and isn't the same as they were in the 1980's and early 1990's. They have been pretty benign since then and not meeting expectations, pretty mediocre going on 2 decades now.

Michigan is in a similar place as they really haven't been meeting "Michigan" expectations for about 20 years. That is a significant amount of time! Michigan used to be the Ohio St of the BIG 10. There was a time in the late 1980's and 1990's that Ohio St. had difficultly beating Michigan. John Cooper coached the Buckeyes from 1988 to 2000. Why was John Cooper fired from Ohio St? He couldn't beat Michigan! Michigan was dominant during this period. Not so much the last 19-20 years! They have been very average.

How average have they been? I was surprised when Rob pulled this stat out and included in his article on Iowa's trip to Ann Arbor. Since the year 2001, Iowa has 152 wins and 5 top 10 finishes. Michigan is very close with 151 wins and 4 top 10 finishes.

Many think that Nebby is living in the past and will not get back to the championship years (at least multiple) they enjoyed in the past. Will Michigan? Two decades is a long time. Iowa has had pretty much mirrored success with Michigan and probably better than Nebraska since 2001. I think the landscape has changed.

People (media) still put Michigan on some sort of pedestal. Are they deserving of that or are they just another nice BIG 10 team now, similar to Iowa? Discuss.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
The daunted Michigan! Are they? We all acknowledge that Nebby lives in the past and isn't the same as they were in the 1980's and early 1990's. They have been pretty benign since then and not meeting expectations, pretty mediocre going on 2 decades now.

Michigan is in a similar place as they really haven't been meeting "Michigan" expectations for about 20 years. That is a significant amount of time! Michigan used to be the Ohio St of the BIG 10. There was a time in the late 1980's and 1990's that Ohio St. had difficultly beating Michigan. John Cooper coached the Buckeyes from 1988 to 2000. Why was John Cooper fired from Ohio St? He couldn't beat Michigan! Michigan was dominant during this period. Not so much the last 19-20 years! They have been very average.

How average have they been? I was surprised when Rob pulled this stat out and included in his article on Iowa's trip to Ann Arbor. Since the year 2001, Iowa has 152 wins and 5 top 10 finishes. Michigan is very close with 151 wins and 4 top 10 finishes.

Many think that Nebby is living in the past and will not get back to the championship years (at least multiple) they enjoyed in the past. Will Michigan? Two decades is a long time. Iowa has had pretty much mirrored success with Michigan and probably better than Nebraska since 2001. I think the landscape has changed.

People (media) still put Michigan on some sort of pedestal. Are they deserving of that or are they just another nice BIG 10 team now, similar to Iowa? Discuss.
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Michigan's run in the 1990's was so dominant it even drove Nick Saban out of the state.

Now Michigan has had to compete not just against the Urb, who they couldn't beat, but the slimeball Mark Dantonio up the road. I'm sure Michigan State's success, deserved or not, has had an equal impact on the Wolverines. Since Dantonio took over Michigan has been the team with the revolving coaches.

Sparty looks tougher this year, ASU game not withstanding. The Buckeyes look like the Buckeyes. Michigan isn't going back to their 1990's dominance anytime soon.
 
It would be interesting to see Michigan's pre-season ranking for the past 20 years vs. the final AP poll. My guess would be about 90% of the time their end of season ranking is much lower. They always seem to by over hyped.
 
Michigan will get back. They are a top 10, if not top 5 recruiter most years due to their brand and demographics. Nebraska will not. They might have a few good years here and there. Nebraska’s biggest advantage is their propensity to cheat and not get caught. Nebraska is playing a charged felon right now and almost nobody says a negative word in the Nebraska media. It’s just the tip of the iceberg.
 
Some schools are college football royalty.

Michigan
OSU
PSU
Bama
Florida
Florida State
The U
Tejas
Oklahoma
USC
Notre Dame

Maybe of late add in the upper crust of the SEC, LSU, Auburn and Georgia. Those teams are always supposed to be good. With even records, they will pretty much always be ranked ahead of teams like Iowa. They will always get the benefit of the doubt going into the season.
 
hwk23 said:
Michigan will get back. They are a top 10, if not top 5 recruiter most years due to their brand and demographics. Nebraska will not. They might have a few good years here and there. Nebraska’s biggest advantage is their propensity to cheat and not get caught. Nebraska is playing a charged felon right now and almost nobody says a negative word in the Nebraska media. It’s just the tip of the iceberg.
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Will they though? It's been 20 years. I remember when Kirk Ferentz started to have his successful teams 2002 -2005, I remember Michigan being down and Iowa starting to beat them and thinking "Shit, this will be short lived and they'll be back". Not the case. I remember tailgating with Michigan fans in our area and they were just beside themselves back then with what was going on with their team. This is 2019 and they are still trying to figure it out.
 
okeefe4prez said:
Some schools are college football royalty.

Michigan
OSU
PSU
Bama
Florida
Florida State
The U
Tejas
Oklahoma
USC
Notre Dame

Maybe of late add in the upper crust of the SEC, LSU, Auburn and Georgia. Those teams are always supposed to be good. With even records, they will pretty much always be ranked ahead of teams like Iowa. They will always get the benefit of the doubt going into the season.
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I guess you can now add Clemson to that list.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
Will they though? It's been 20 years. I remember when Kirk Ferentz started to have his successful teams 2002 -2005, I remember Michigan being down and Iowa starting to beat them and thinking "Shit, this will be short lived and they'll be back". Not the case. I remember tailgating with Michigan fans in our area and they were just beside themselves back then with what was going on with their team. This is 2019 and they are still trying to figure it out.
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Yep, Michigan's mediocrity is hard to explain but with their recruiting I gotta believe they'll figure it out eventually. It's sorta similar to USC's current rut.
 
Michigan has had a grand total of 3 losing seasons since 1967; it just so happens that they happened in a condensed time frame. Harbaugh has three ten win seasons in four years...Gary Moeller never did that and Lloyd Carr only did it once, and those two guys were wildly successful coaches.

I think Harbaugh is a gigantic douche rocket, but let's not act like the walls are falling down around Ann Arbor. That team has been putting money in the recruiting "bank" for over a hundred years, they aren't going to fade away anytime soon
 
okeefe4prez said:
Some schools are college football royalty.

Michigan
OSU
PSU
Bama
Florida
Florida State
The U
Tejas
Oklahoma
USC
Notre Dame

Maybe of late add in the upper crust of the SEC, LSU, Auburn and Georgia. Those teams are always supposed to be good. With even records, they will pretty much always be ranked ahead of teams like Iowa. They will always get the benefit of the doubt going into the season.
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What I love about that list is not seeing Nebraska in it. They've had a run in the past that was waaaaaay more successful than several of those teams in the list, but due to their own delusional fanbase, they've succeeded in doing what no other team has done in the history of college football--completely torching their reputation, current perception, and recruiting to the ground. No other team has fallen as far, and it's 100% self-inflicted by fans who influence administrators.
 
hwk23 said:
Yep, Michigan's mediocrity is hard to explain but with their recruiting I gotta believe they'll figure it out eventually. It's sorta similar to USC's current rut.
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Yea, I'm with ya. All those blue blood teams have various ruts such as USC you point out, Texas, Florida, Florida St, etc.. But, not usually 20 years!
 
MelroseHawkins said:
How average have they been? I was surprised when Rob pulled this stat out .... Since the year 2001, Iowa has 152 wins and 5 top 10 finishes. Michigan is very close with 151 wins and 4 top 10 finishes
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Actually, Michigan was coaches top-10 5 times ('02, '03, '06, '11, '16)

And, they've been more consistent than the Hawks in other years. While the Hawks have only finished in the top-25 2 other times (#20, #25), Mich has 5 others (#11, #12, #14, #19, #20).

MelroseHawkins said:
I remember when Kirk Ferentz started to have his successful teams 2002 -2005, I remember Michigan being down ... This is 2019 and they are still trying to figure it out.
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You remember Michigan being down? Your memory is off. While the Hawks were finishing #8 from '02-'04, Michigan was #9, #7, #12.

And lately? 2015 #11, 2016 #10, 2018 #14.
 
Fryowa said:
Michigan has had a grand total of 3 losing seasons since 1967; it just so happens that they happened in a condensed time frame. Harbaugh has three ten win seasons in four years...Gary Moeller never did that and Lloyd Carr only did it once, and those two guys were wildly successful coaches.

I think Harbaugh is a gigantic douche rocket, but let's not act like the walls are falling down around Ann Arbor. That team has been putting money in the recruiting "bank" for over a hundred years, they aren't going to fade away anytime soon
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Maybe it's more impressive that Iowa has elevated, I dunno. Good points above, but, they aren't the Michigan of the 1980's and 1990's. Michigan was like Ohio St with Iowa now, Iowa would rarely beat them. The points you make above make it even more baffling, IMO.
 
hawkeyes87 said:
Actually, Michigan was coaches top-10 5 times ('02, '03, '06, '11, '16)

And, they've been more consistent than the Hawks in other years. While the Hawks have only finished in the top-25 2 other times (#20, #25), Mich has 5 others (#11, #12, #14, #19, #20).



You remember Michigan being down? Your memory is off. While the Hawks were finishing #8 from '02-'04, Michigan was #9, #7, #12.

And lately? 2015 #11, 2016 #10, 2018 #14.
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Yea but they weren't being the Michigan of the 1980's and 1990's where they were contending for NC's and beating Ohio St on a consistent basis.
 
MelroseHawkins said:
They have been very average.

How average have they been? I was surprised when Rob pulled this stat out and included in his article on Iowa's trip to Ann Arbor. Since the year 2001, Iowa has 152 wins and 5 top 10 finishes. Michigan is very close with 151 wins and 4 top 10 finishes.
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So if Michigan is very average then Iowa is very average.
 
What is interesting about Michigan is that since 2004, they have zero conference championships and zero appearances in the Big Ten CCG. Meanwhile MSU, Wisc, OSU and PSU have had all had at least 3 conference championships.

Also at least Iowa, Neb and NW can all say they at least played in 1 CCG game. The year Neb went in 2012, Mich and Neb were both in the legends division.

So despite all those 10 win seasons, Mich seems to be lacking any hardware to show for it. Also under Harbaugh, they seem to have a problem finishing strong.
 
Michigan does play in a brutal division. Going on the 6th year now. Ohio St is elite. PSU has had a huge talent upgrade starting in 2016. MSU is a very tough program.

Put Michigan in the B1G West and they probably have 3 division titles in the first 5 years since they realigned (2015, 2016, & 2018).

They haven't been as successful in the B1G as they were in the 80s & 90s but they're not in dire straights over the last 20 years.

2006 they were one win from the BCS title game. In 2016 they were an OT loss away from the playoff. In 2018 they were 1 game from the playoff.

Their biggest problem is Ohio St really took off under Tressel & Urban Meyer took it even further up.
 
DDThompson said:
So if Michigan is very average then Iowa is very average.
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Yes, but that at least matches the national perception for Iowa. But people have been slow to recognize Michigan's slide, but they are starting to notice lately.

In fact this is not the first time somebody has brought this up. The BTN ran a piece just last night stating that Michigan and Iowa have been roughly equal for the last 15 years, with a lot of details backing it up.

And don't forget after last years blowout losss to OSU, a famous Michigan alumnus tweeted out that Michigan's program is no better than Iowa.
 
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