Merged - Big 12 Aftermath Thread

[okeefe4prez]

My guess is before this 12 team playoff thing gets solidified there's going to be some major realignment amongst the conferences. I would guess the power 5 may become a power 4 with all kinds of mixing and matching going on. Broke up with divisions. So I would pump the brakes on wanting to make any moves if I were OU or UT or anyone else. I think they need to get all these guys in a room and figure this out instead of a couple teams here and a school there just making their own back room deals.

Good point. In the short run it definitely makes sense to ice out programs like all the deadweight in the Big 12. But the problem is that you need cannon fodder to keep the mystique of the big dogs alive. If college football were reduced to the top 20 teams and Oklahoma settled in at being a perennial 6-6 team the allure of the game would wear off really quickly.

 

[ohhawk]

All about positioning..........I'd feel better with Delany representing the BIG 10 during this time.

P.S. If the BIG XII begins to fall apart I know a certain head coach in that conference that might become more available

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Over at CryFan, CDub posits that if Texas and Oklahoma leave and the Big 12 implodes, an Iowa State move to the B1G is a possibility. Would Iowa attempt to block? He doesn't speculate. He points out that Kim Reynolds is an Iowa State grad but doubts she would have any say in it.

Would you want the insufferable folks from the little town up the interstate -- the one with the really good water -- in the B1G? Would it even make sense?

I don't want Iowa to be in the same conference as ISU... But if things go to a power 4 type of situation It could likely happen.

 

[okeefe4prez]

If there is a grand reorg, I have to think Kansas and Iowa State make the most sense for the conference to add. I'd rather have ISU join the Big Ten than slide into the MAC if the Big 12 dissolves. The biggest problem with ISU is given the media rights structuring where the in network streaming and cable subs pay more for BTN, ISU is totally dilutive and adds almost no value. But academically and footprint wise, they make the most sense aside from KU. Financially, the conference would be better off with West Virginia or maybe Oklahoma State. I'm assuming with a meltdown the Texas schools will all join the Pac 10.

If I was the Big 12 and staring this down, I'd try to get BYU, Houston, SMU, and Cincinnati and beg the other conferences to still call me P5. Maybe make a run at Boise and UCF as well.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Good point. In the short run it definitely makes sense to ice out programs like all the deadweight in the Big 12. But the problem is that you need cannon fodder to keep the mystique of the big dogs alive. If college football were reduced to the top 20 teams and Oklahoma settled in at being a perennial 6-6 team the allure of the game would wear off really quickly.

Yeah egos get involved. The Rutgers and Kansas's of the world wouldn't want to sit in on a meeting getting talked down to most likely either. It could turn into the last kids picked to play on the play ground sort of thing. But what choice would they have?

This could be a much easier thing to have sorted out had they just went to 8 teams in the playoffs to start with. Now they want to jump to 12 and start a crazy domino effect. Between all that and how the NCAA has been neutered by the courts and NIL becoming a thing it's pretty evident things are gonna change drastically and the old guard isn't going to like it one bit.

 

[ohhawk]

Not to forget that Pollard worked for Alvarez while at Wisconsin. Alvarez always thought highly of him. Alvarez now sits as special advisor to the BIG 10 Commissioner............could be a factor ISU's landing spot should the BIG XII begin to falter.

Pollard probably on the phone to him already.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Not to forget that Pollard worked for Alvarez while at Wisconsin. Alvarez always thought highly of him. Alvarez now sits as special advisor to the BIG 10 Commissioner............could be a factor ISU's landing spot should the BIG XII begin to falter.

Pollard probably on the phone to him already.

"Hey Barry, what would you say if I told you I could deliver an AAU school to the Big Ten and it would only dilute member earnings by $2 million per school? Sounds like a great bargain, right?"

Click.

"Barry. Barry. Hello. Barry."

Money talks, bullshit walks. There is no way in hell Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and even Illinois sign up for a deal like that.

 

[tweeterhawk]

The Big Ten better watch out because they could take Nebraska as well. I seem to recall Nebraska chattering about leaving the Big Ten last year.

I'd love to see the media contracts the Big 12 signed with Fox a few years ago. There's gotta be a ripcord in those if Texas leaves the conference. If they manage to hold it together, I gotta think the media rights are going to be worth 1/3rd to 1/2 of what they are worth now.

Fuskers return to ignite the competitive fires of the shell of the old Big 8? Interesting...

 

[ohhawk]

"Hey Barry, what would you say if I told you I could deliver an AAU school to the Big Ten and it would only dilute member earnings by $2 million per school? Sounds like a great bargain, right?"

Click.

"Barry. Barry. Hello. Barry."

Money talks, bullshit walks. There is no way in hell Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State and even Illinois sign up for a deal like that.

I've read more that believe they would be a candidate than not. Money is a part of the decision but not all of it. The math of it all can move in a lot of directions with how things might be structured for new entries as well as renegotiated media deals and/or new ones.

What if the Big Ten were to revisit expansion? Ten teams that make sense.

With talks of Oklahoma and Texas exploring membership with the SEC, it got us thinking Big Ten expansion with a big IF. Here are ten teams that make sense.

buckeyeswire.usatoday.com

Conference expansion: What should Big Ten do if SEC adds Oklahoma, Texas?

Oklahoma and Texas are reportedly looking to bolt the Big 12 and leap to the SEC. If it happens, how should the Big Ten respond?

www.nj.com

SEC expansion: What about the rest of the Big 12?

Predicting where the other eight schools could land if the Oklahoma Sooners and Texas Longhorns head to the SEC.

soonerswire.usatoday.com

__________________________________________

FWIW........I hope they aren't a candidate.

 

[kicker22]

If people think the Big Ten West is weak now I'm sure adding ISU would put a dagger through the heart of that argument. If Kansas, Kansas St., or ISU ever even brought to the table I think you have to start realigning divisions immediately because east and west would be an absolute joke as far as football goes.

 

[kicker22]

Cue Scott Frost and their new AD announcing shortly that they've decided to return to the Big 12 where they'll play anyone at anytime and return to relevancy.

 

[HawkGold]

The only one the Big Ten would consider from that group is Kansas. The rest of them either do not expand the footprint of the BTN (KSU/ISU) or are not a good fit academically (KSU/OSU). Kansas would bring in the Kansas City market and brings a blue blood basketball program to the conference.

If Texas and Oklahoma leave then the B12 I think they can still survive but the conference will take a HUGE hit in prestige. They will probably replace them with schools like Boise State and Memphis.

Posters keep bringing up academics. Iowa is a lot closer to KSU, KU, OSU than the west schools of WI, IL, and MN and it's not close. OSU and KSU are also land grants which also is what MN, IL, and WI are.

OSU and KSU are arguably on par with Iowa on BB and Football by a number of measures.

What we are really seeing is the slow death of college sports as we know it.

 

[HawkGold]

I hate Iowa State sports. I hate Iowa State fans. I do respect Iowa State's academic institution because it is really a top rate agricultural school. Despite my disdain for ISU, I really hope they aren't relegated to what becomes a mid major plus conference. I mean, I kind of do, but not really. I can't really articulate how I feel for them. I just know that if Michigan, PSU and OSU all threatened to bounce out of the Big Ten we'd be utterly screwed through no fault of our own and there's no cosmic justice in such an event playing out.

I feel bad for the author of that piece. You can see him oscillating in real time between various stages of grief. I can picture how we would feel if that happened to us. Ugh. The poor fella thinks Texas A&M will have sway in a decision regarding Texas. That just isn't true. The rest of the SEC would trade Texas for A&M straight up in a heartbeat. If they had to vote to remove A&M to get Texas, they would. The real question would be whether a consortium of other Texas schools wouldn't use their legislative powers through the state government to force the UT regents/trustees to stay in the Big 12. Baylor has a lot of sway in Texas. What if Bowlsby reached out Houston and SMU and offered them membership in the Big 12 conditioned on their ability to grease the legislative wheels and keep Texas? That seems more feasible than A&M doing anything to block a UT move. With NIL and all the money in Texas, they could resurrect the glory days of Texas college football. Surely that nostalgia play would carry some weight.

And I think the media rights issue he points to is overrated as well. Obviously, 2021 is already set. Say they move in 2022, that really just leaves the 2022, 2023 and 2024 football seasons (which drives the TV revenue) on the table. Maybe the move would be in 2023 as well. Furthermore, I'm sure the SEC could come up with some sort of "housewarming gift fee" which would totally NOT be TV money and concoct a way to screw the Big 12. I'd want to see the actual contract, not some sports reporter's interpretation of it.

ISU as an ag power house is on the decline due to the declines in state budget. Granted they have the land grant status but the fed funding has been leaning toward regional centers with Purdue and MN getting a lot of attention. ISU Extension is becoming a shell of what it was in the ag center. They keep replacing talent with very young (low paid) females who won't be staying. ISU ag doesn't have much as they keep strangling the delivery arm (Extension) of the research results and thus there goes their research. They have a director that is bent on getting pats on the back for budget cuts and political decisions, but it is dying. It's covered up some by emphasis on 4H but that organization is also in trouble.

 

[Motigerhawk]

SEC's courtship of Texas, Oklahoma: Here's what's next for some big players such as Big 12, Pac-12, Big Ten and NCAA

The Big 12 is beginning to discuss contingencies Thursday, as it’s obvious that it would be a devastating blow to lose Texas and Oklahoma. Expect the Big 12 to be aggressive in adding schools.

sports.yahoo.com

This article talks about the B1G shoring up the East Coast by adding Clemson, North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia Tech and Florida State.

The problem is the ACC gets all TV revenue from any team that leaves through 2036.

 

[Lumberman]

Man, if the SEC turns them down, I hope the B1G goes after them!

Texas &Oklahoma in the West and give Purdue back to the East. Balance of Power Shifts to the West.

If Nebraska doesn’t like it, let them walk! Bring in Norte Dame in their place.

 

[BryceC]

I hate Iowa State sports. I hate Iowa State fans. I do respect Iowa State's academic institution because it is really a top rate agricultural school. Despite my disdain for ISU, I really hope they aren't relegated to what becomes a mid major plus conference. I mean, I kind of do, but not really. I can't really articulate how I feel for them. I just know that if Michigan, PSU and OSU all threatened to bounce out of the Big Ten we'd be utterly screwed through no fault of our own and there's no cosmic justice in such an event playing out.

I feel bad for the author of that piece. You can see him oscillating in real time between various stages of grief. I can picture how we would feel if that happened to us. Ugh. The poor fella thinks Texas A&M will have sway in a decision regarding Texas. That just isn't true. The rest of the SEC would trade Texas for A&M straight up in a heartbeat. If they had to vote to remove A&M to get Texas, they would. The real question would be whether a consortium of other Texas schools wouldn't use their legislative powers through the state government to force the UT regents/trustees to stay in the Big 12. Baylor has a lot of sway in Texas. What if Bowlsby reached out Houston and SMU and offered them membership in the Big 12 conditioned on their ability to grease the legislative wheels and keep Texas? That seems more feasible than A&M doing anything to block a UT move. With NIL and all the money in Texas, they could resurrect the glory days of Texas college football. Surely that nostalgia play would carry some weight.

And I think the media rights issue he points to is overrated as well. Obviously, 2021 is already set. Say they move in 2022, that really just leaves the 2022, 2023 and 2024 football seasons (which drives the TV revenue) on the table. Maybe the move would be in 2023 as well. Furthermore, I'm sure the SEC could come up with some sort of "housewarming gift fee" which would totally NOT be TV money and concoct a way to screw the Big 12. I'd want to see the actual contract, not some sports reporter's interpretation of it.

honestly it really sucks. I can’t help but reminisce about all of the great times my wife and I, then my kids and I have had following Iowa State. I could tell a million stories of just hilarious and fun adventures we’ve had.

it seems like it’s all ending and it’s a bummer because a lot of the traveling and fun we’ve had has been around the team and it’s been a huge part of my life for 20 years. Basically my entire adult life. My wife and I have been doing it together the whole way. Just real bummed.

 

[ohhawk]

Posters keep bringing up academics. Iowa is a lot closer to KSU, KU, OSU than the west schools of WI, IL, and MN and it's not close. OSU and KSU are also land grants which also is what MN, IL, and WI are.

OSU and KSU are arguably on par with Iowa on BB and Football by a number of measures.

What we are really seeing is the slow death of college sports as we know it.

One often used source ranking academic standing. Hardly in the same category as those listed from your BIG XII samples above.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

Wisconsin #42
Illinois #47
Minnesota #66
Iowa #88
Kansas #124
Kansas St. #170
Oklahoma St. #187

 

[spliff45]

I think the B1G will have conversations with P12 schools before considering any of the remaining Big 12 schools. ACC is not an option. I believe Disney/ESPN originally created the LHN to keep Texas out of the B1G/away from Fox

 

[okeefe4prez]

honestly it really sucks. I can’t help but reminisce about all of the great times my wife and I, then my kids and I have had following Iowa State. I could tell a million stories of just hilarious and fun adventures we’ve had.

it seems like it’s all ending and it’s a bummer because a lot of the traveling and fun we’ve had has been around the team and it’s been a huge part of my life for 20 years. Basically my entire adult life. My wife and I have been doing it together the whole way. Just real bummed.

Yeah, I get it. It sucks and while I find it absolutely hilarious on some level because I really hate ISU, another part of me realizes it could easily happen to Iowa and possibly will within my lifetime.

The world started changing big as the phrase "sports business" worked its way into the lexicon. Nothing's just for fun anymore. Take something like baseball cards. 35, 40 cents a pack when I was a kid. The whores in the MLBPA realized the licensing gold mine they had, flooded the market, helped puff a bubble that burst in no small part due to the '94 strike, and now cards are like five bucks a pack and they've changed the entire hobby from collecting a set of cards to trying to find a limited edition card in each pack and flipping it for 2 grand. It was a hobby and now it's basically a gambling addiction.

The colleges are massively on the take as well. Hell, I'd be interested to know how much you've seen your ticket prices go up over the years. We used to go to ISU games every now and then when I was a kid and it was just a good time. The teams sucked but the tailgates were cool and people were just out there to have fun. Now it's like a fucking trip to Disney, but with an upper crust set of club and luxury seating to sell to companies and shit.

College football is great in no small part because of the regional rivalries. It's also great because of the David v. Goliath games, like Iowa pisspounding OSU 55-24 a few years ago or Iowa knocking PSU out of the title hunt in 2008 or that game (I forget the year) where ISU beat Oklahoma State when T. Boone had bought all those star players and OSU was basically a freaking lock for the title game or that game in the '90's where that terrible Jim Walden ISU team beat Nebraska. I really hope the powers that be can concoct something because if you guys get stuck in a conference with all the leftovers plus two current G5 teams that will be a near death sentence for all the teams in the conference and you guys don't deserve that.

 

[okeefe4prez]

I think the B1G will have conversations with P12 schools before considering any of the remaining Big 12 schools. ACC is not an option. I believe Disney/ESPN originally created the LHN to keep Texas out of the B1G/away from Fox

You're right. Utah and Colorado would probably be calls #1 and #2. Well, of course they'll call Notre Dame first but get told no for the 10,000,000th time, then after that they'll call the Pac 10 teams. The Pac 10 is a dumpster fire because of the low value of the media rights. They honestly might have to sever some of the conferences for football and the other sports.