Maybe We Do Have Things to Talk About

Fryowa said:
I cringe every time I see two people duking it out (which, frequent when I was younger, is much less often now) because it isn’t the shots to the chin or cheek bones, or even knockouts...it’s the head hitting the concrete afterwards.

Happened to a guy in Sioux City a few years back. I was down on 4th St that night and saw it from a distance. Some guy from Ida Grove (I think) was downtown with his drunk loudmouth wife. She was white girl wasted and lipping off to anyone who even looked in her direction. The puncher (random guy walking down the street) told her to zip it, the punch receiver (husband) started a fight, got popped, and fell straight back. Caught the curb at the base of his head and never woke up. The guy was acquitted.
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It wasn't a fight but her head striking the curb is what killed Caroline Found. I once got decked and the back of my head struck the pavement. I was lucky. I only got ten stitches.
 


The NFL should be the leaders on this, on the forefront. If it is Goodell and a bunch of 70 and 80 year old dudes, it ain't going to work. Football to survive moving forward it needs the NFL to lead the way. When Jerry Jones is your most progressive thinker, you got problems. I am a middle age guy, so football will be around in my lifetime, beyond that who knows.
 


trj said:
The NFL should be the leaders on this, on the forefront. If it is Goodell and a bunch of 70 and 80 year old dudes, it ain't going to work. Football to survive moving forward it needs the NFL to lead the way. When Jerry Jones is your most progressive thinker, you got problems. I am a middle age guy, so football will be around in my lifetime, beyond that who knows.
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I wonder how the Romans felt watching the end of Gladiatorial Games?
 




Fryowa said:
I of all people appreciate humorous hyperbole, but you’re wrong. I never had a concussion and most of my high school teammates did not.

Speaking in absolutes isn’t a good way to get people to believe you. You seem educated; you should know that.
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Believe what you want. Ive been around high school sports. Ive had 3 sons that were really good athletes. 7 known concussions 3 kids. They were taught fundamentals well.
There were so many concussions with teamates. So many ignored it including parents.

I 2x had to get the coach to take my kid out. He couldnt remeber which side of center left or right to be on.Oh ya after the concussion in the game he had a pick 6, a int in the end zone and a fumble recovery.

When I was coaching soccer had a kid get one and the trainer cleared him at the time. Another time I got slack when a kid went temprarily blind and took him to ER
You can believe what you want. Its real. Concussions are way under reported.

Your kid has to live with your beliefs.
 


HawkGold said:
Believe what you want. Ive been around high school sports. Ive had 3 sons that were really good athletes. 7 known concussions 3 kids. They were taught fundamentals well.
There were so many concussions with teamates. So many ignored it including parents.

I 2x had to get the coach to take my kid out. He couldnt remeber which side of center left or right to be on.Oh ya after the concussion in the game he had a pick 6, a int in the end zone and a fumble recovery.

When I was coaching soccer had a kid get one and the trainer cleared him at the time. Another time I got slack when a kid went temprarily blind and took him to ER
You can believe what you want. Its real. Concussions are way under reported.

Your kid has to live with your beliefs.
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I told you this story off board before. My daughter was temporarily blinded by a concussion in a traveling basketball tournament. She suffered bruising and swelling behind her retina. It was six weeks before the doctors could even begin to determine if she had optic nerve damage, which would have meant at least partial permanent blindness.

Longest six weeks of my life. This was in 2013, perhaps two years after the Eric Katenda accident.

Katenda was a former Fran recruit (never signed) and juco teammate of Gabe Olesaini. A simple elbow to the head on a rebound in a pickup game ended his career. He never completely regained sight in one eye.
 


HawkGold said:
Believe what you want. Ive been around high school sports. Ive had 3 sons that were really good athletes. 7 known concussions 3 kids. They were taught fundamentals well.
There were so many concussions with teamates. So many ignored it including parents.

I 2x had to get the coach to take my kid out. He couldnt remeber which side of center left or right to be on.Oh ya after the concussion in the game he had a pick 6, a int in the end zone and a fumble recovery.

When I was coaching soccer had a kid get one and the trainer cleared him at the time. Another time I got slack when a kid went temprarily blind and took him to ER
You can believe what you want. Its real. Concussions are way under reported.

Your kid has to live with your beliefs.
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I will grant you that experiences can differ greatly, but your personal experiences do not constitute fact. No matter how many concussions you have witnessed that does not mean that sports equals concussions. Concussive danger lurks everywhere. A persons head is the least defenseless appendage that humans have.

I will also mention that I feel deeply sorry for anyone with out the chimpanzee level intelligence to realize that high speed bodily collisions could and would be potentially harmful to one's health. Why the NFL ever took action to try to cover up CTE is beyond me. It sure seemed like a....well duh moment to me. If the NFL had just stood aside to the medical research and been transparent I doubt they would be subject to any blame.
 


Adam said:
I will grant you that experiences can differ greatly, but your personal experiences do not constitute fact. No matter how many concussions you have witnessed that does not mean that sports equals concussions. Concussive danger lurks everywhere. A persons head is the least defenseless appendage that humans have.

I will also mention that I feel deeply sorry for anyone with out the chimpanzee level intelligence to realize that high speed bodily collisions could and would be potentially harmful to one's health. Why the NFL ever took action to try to cover up CTE is beyond me. It sure seemed like a....well duh moment to me. If the NFL had just stood aside to the medical research and been transparent I doubt they would be subject to any blame.
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Why did the NFL take action to try to cover it up?

The only explanation I can give you is they had a cash cow to milk.

There's another appendage, at least on the male body, that is almost as defenseless as their head.

And Goodell and his henchmen should be kicked in them a few times.
 


Northside Hawk said:
Why did the NFL take action to try to cover it up?

The only explanation I can give you is they had a cash cow to milk.
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Still doesn't make sense. They didn't assault anyone. They didn't create the sport. They certainly weren't going to lose any money. Why do it at all?

The only real answer to me is rich people do stupid and arrogant things to protect their image. If they were known as the pimps and panderers of a gladiator blood sport it might hurt their inflated egos. I mean they don't want to be the Dana Whites of the world.
 


HawkGold said:
Believe what you want...Your kid has to live with your beliefs.
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I don’t get guilted or shamed easily, it’ll be tough for you to get the reaction you want.

I never got a concussion from playing six years of football and 18 years of organized baseball. I was not a basketball player. I know you think I did at some point, but arguing is pointless. I know of two times when friends of mine got actual. diagnosed, non-football concussions when we were kids (one was sledding and one tripped and fell down his deck stairs, breaking his nose too). Both played football on the same team as me for those six years. Of the two, one is a successful orthopedic surgeon in Chicago and the other is a full time CPA and part time pastor. I see each at least once a year and they are both well adjusted, quick witted, happy family people. Are they both going to be struck with dementia at an early age? Who knows? The halls of nursing homes are inundated with dementia patients who’ve never played a down of football in their lives, so I think it’d be iffy at best and irresponsible at worst to blame it solely on football if they did.

You are doing two things with this argument that make you sound dim witted, although I don’t think you really are. First, you’re trying to use guilt as a persuader by implying that my son will develop dementia at some point in his life because I let him play football. Second, you are being hyperbolic when you say that everyone who’s ever played football has been concussed which, even though you know isn’t true, you still keep insisting. Both of those things make a weak point even weaker and make you sound desperate to win an argument. Trying to guilt people and speaking in absolutes in a debate is equivalent to saying, “because I said so.” You can do better. I’m a moron and I can even see that.

Whatever you do, don’t come back with more of the, “you’re hurting your child intentionally” spiel; it isn’t going to work, and “I’m rubber; you’re glue” isn’t something a man of your age and stature should have to resort to.
 
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Fryowa said:
I don’t get guilted or shamed easily, it’ll be tough for you to get the reaction you want.

I never got a concussion from playing six years of football and 18 years of organized baseball. I was not a basketball player. I know you think I did at some point, but arguing is pointless. I know of two times when friends of mine got actual. diagnosed, non-football concussions when we were kids (one was sledding and one tripped and fell down his deck stairs, breaking his nose too). Both played football on the same team as me for those six years. Of the two, one is a successful orthopedic surgeon in Chicago and the other is a full time CPA and part time pastor. I see each at least once a year and they are both well adjusted, quick witted, happy family people. Are they both going to be struck with dementia at an early age? Who knows? The halls of nursing homes are inundated with dementia patients who’ve never played a down of football in their lives, so I think it’d be iffy at best and irresponsible at worst to blame it solely on football if they did.

You are doing two things with this argument that make you sound dim witted, although I don’t think you really are. First, you’re trying to use guilt as a persuader by implying that my son will develop dementia at some point in his life because I let him play football. Second, you are being hyperbolic when you say that everyone who’s ever played football has been concussed which, even though you know isn’t true, you still keep insisting. Both of those things make a weak point even weaker and make you sound desperate to win an argument. Trying to guilt people and speaking in absolutes in a debate is equivalent to saying, “because I said so.” You can do better. I’m a moron and I can even see that.

Whatever you do, don’t come back with more of the, “you’re hurting your child intentionally” spiel; it isn’t going to work, and “I’m rubber; you’re glue” isn’t something a man of your age and stature should have to resort to.
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Wow Fry, you are the master of shaming. Didn't do that. Taking things out of context like you oft do comes off as dimwitted.

If you read things thoroughly, I said something has changed. I have not idea what that is. I can't believe the HS game is that much different than before. However, something has changed. Hits that before wouldn't have led to a concussion now do. I have some theories, but no clear idea. I've been too upclose to know that the damage is much more common and severe at the HS level.
 


HawkGold said:
Wow Fry, you are the master of shaming. Didn't do that. Taking things out of context like you oft do comes off as dimwitted.

If you read things thoroughly, I said something has changed. I have not idea what that is. I can't believe the HS game is that much different than before. However, something has changed. Hits that before wouldn't have led to a concussion now do. I have some theories, but no clear idea. I've been too upclose to know that the damage is much more common and severe at the HS level.
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I read it thoroughly. You said that my kid would have to live with my choices, by which you meant he was going to suffer in life because I let him play football.

I didn’t agree with your point earlier (still don’t), so you threw that in there as a Hail Mary to try and dish up some guilt. Which shows that you’re lacking support for your point. I’m not offended at all, just pointing out that if you want to make a compelling argument you need to do better than that.

If you want to reword your idea about it go ahead. I mispeak all the time. If not, that’s fine too.
 
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Fryowa said:
I read it thoroughly. You said that my kid would have to live with my choices, by which you meant he was going to suffer in life because I let him play football.

I didn’t agree with your point earlier (still don’t), so you threw that in there as a Hail Mary to try and dish up some guilt. Which shows that you’re lacking support for your point. I’m not offended at all, just pointing out that if you want to make a compelling argument you need to do better than that.

If you want to reword your idea about it go ahead. I mispeak all the time. If not, that’s fine too.
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You aint HF. He came across as genuine

HF desguised snark is still snark.

And Ill be shocked if your kid plays HS foorball that he will come through concussion free.
 






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