Lunatic Fringe

[hogeye]

You just said that Nebraska & WVU consistently out-recruit Iowa.. So not sure if you're saying that Iowa can or can not recruit with these programs. I don't follow Nebraska & WVU recruiting so really can't say what they've been recruiting lately.

I agree with you on Boise that they are always 11-1 because they play an easy schedule. They are good enough to beat another Top 10 team on any given day, but in a tough conference, they would likely be exposed during an 8-game conference grind.

But I see so many people point to Nebraska as this program that Iowa can never hope to be because we "don't have the resources Nebraska has". Well, Nebraska has a smaller in-state population than Iowa does, so statement that really doesn't hold water IMO.

Athletic department revenue? Not sure where Nebraska is, but I believe Iowa was something like 15th nationally. And Iowa is building new practice facilities. Not sure how the new one compares to what Nebraska (or WVU) has, but I'm just not convinced that we are that out-classed by Nebraska. Not sure if that's what YOU are saying or not.

And for the record - Nebraska is not the program they were in the 1990's. They were great under Tom Osborne, but it's going on 20 years since they've really been that powerhouse program everybody still seems to think they are. A good program, indeed. But I'm not sure I see them getting back to where they used to be, honestly.

My apologies, I had walked away mid-post and thought you were focused in on Boise St., or I had confused your reply with a Boise St. centered reference. That previously reply wouldn't really pertain to Nebraska / WVU.

I would assume without looking Nebraska out-recruits us and WVU maybe does, maybe doesn't, so we'll say they are on par for arguments sake.

Going back to your previous question...on the comparison, I guess I don't really put too much stock in this recruiting thing in general. Like I've stated many times, Iowa is more of a program that builds players versus relying on recruiting, so I guess I don't measure it too closely.

I get your point on Nebraska, but I do think they still get quite a bit of play for their success in the 90's. They have a solid alumni base and they developed a bit of a national following. Nebraska has one of the strongest followings of fans of the northern teams built off their previous success. That sustains them a fair amount today still.

 

[hogeye]

BSU couldn't compete if they were in a 'power' football conference?

Let's slow down right there and debunk the obvious. That was never my point, so go back and take the point I did make in context and we can go from there.

 

[HomerChampless]

Do you want to start another thread, Hogeye, 'cause this one is meandering?

I'll just say this: since Iowa's schemes don't rely on athleticism, it's difficult for Iowa to recruit the athletic player.

Iowa usually doesn't get the game-changing player.
There, by definition, the athletic player is the game-changing player.

 

[hogeye]

I'd say it's not meandering, you're fairly on point actually.

I'll take the fact that you didn't accept the challenge that you realize that wasn't point.

So, just a quick summary on Boise State...

Their bowl record is impressive on the surface, 8-4. However, when you eliminate the 1/4 of those games that were played on their home field, they're a modest 5-4.

Schedule overall since 2002 against BCS conference opponents they're a modest 13-9 (I went through quickly, so I think that's accurate, pretty close either way).

I'll just say this: since Iowa's schemes don't rely on athleticism, it's difficult for Iowa to recruit the athletic player.

Iowa usually doesn't get the game-changing player.
There, by defintion, the athletic player is the game changing player.

I don't necessarily agree with the scheme being the issue quite as you've portrayed, but on the latter we certainly agree. We don't usually get the game-changing recruits. Scheme is part of it, perhaps, certainly as you previously pointed out success affects it as well. It's a number of things that affects recruiting.

 

[Cory]

deanvogs, please, facts are useless in emotion-based arguments.

Here's the way this works, Cory. The lunatic fringe are what they are for one simple reason: they fail to acknowledge facts.

There are two sides to the fringe. There is the side that is myopic and fail to see any wrong within the program (plenty of that here). Then there is the side that just can't accept anything less than BCS year in and year out (plenty of those people too).

I've yet to see you really acknowledge anything other than persistent questioning of why we aren't BCS caliber year in and year out. When you're relentless in your approach and never giving credit to counter-arguments and always rejecting anything that doesn't coincide with your view of reality, you get labeled.

So, it's your choice. Ditch the label and have some reasonable arguments and be willing to give concessions when people that don't share your view make valid points, or wear the label with pride and quit playing the victim card. Make your bed, lie in it.

Hogeye, my main point was to ask why everyone labels anyone who questions this program a lunatic or some stupid thing like they are a Clone fan. I will own every statement I have ever made about Iowa Football. This program has consistently started to slide down since 2004. I also believe it has under performed with more talent and an easier schedule in most of the years in question. Since 2005, if take out 2010 then average what our wins per season were not counting bowl games then I would bet it would be right around 7. That is 6 out of 7 years with around 7 wins per year correct? I'm too lazy to look up the actual numbers.


I appreciate everything that KF has done for the program in the past and what he continues to do for it now. If his staff changes save the day then I'll be the first one on here saying what a great job he did. I guess I just have that sinking feeling that we are in for more of the same the next two to three years with the built in excuses that are already being thrown out there.


I'm one who believes KF owes Iowa nothing and Iowa owes KF nothing. Both have gained from each other and if they should part ways down the road then so be it. The U of I will survive and so will KF.

I also don't believe that because I donate money or pay absurd set fees that the U of I owes me jack sh&@. But I do enjoy asking talking about Iowa sports with most of you on here that don't have some agenda. I'm now going to get my personalized Iowa plates that say "Lunatic".

I know, I'm awesome.

 

[hogeye]

Hogeye, my main point was to ask why everyone labels anyone who questions this program a lunatic or some stupid thing like they are a Clone fan...

It's a defense mechanism, that's why.

 

[SamsonHawk515]

It's a defense mechanism, that's why.

Agree, it's like name calling on the playground. Not sure why one side of the argument thinks they are the end all be all of the conversation. Many posters have legitimate questions and concerns about the program. Why they are then attacked and belittled is beyond me, but it is the internet, I guess in reality it is what we as a society should expect. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

 

[hogeye]

Agree, it's like name calling on the playground. Not sure why one side of the argument thinks they are the end all be all of the conversation. Many posters have legitimate questions and concerns about the program. Why they are then attacked and belittled is beyond me, but it is the internet, I guess in reality it is what we as a society should expect. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

I don't know, I used to harbor this belief as well, but when I reflect back to conversations through life with various people in person...it's par for the course. I think the Internet probably makes people feel more brave. Anonymity provides a sense of safety for some probably, but in the end...I just try to deal with people at their level. Some people you can have great conversations with and others you can not.

 

[GhostofBTT]

It's a defense mechanism, that's why.

That's racist.

 

[HomerChampless]

I can't tell where your avatar's hair ends and the skin begins... Now that's racist.

Remember, it's only racist if a minority is slighted.. If a majority is slighted, it's considered insightful....

 

[Cory]

Remember, it's only racist if a minority is slighted.. If a majority is slighted, it's considered insightful....

Homer, I shall use this and I will credit you every time if that is ok?

 

[deanvogs]

Hogeye, my main point was to ask why everyone labels anyone who questions this program a lunatic or some stupid thing like they are a Clone fan.

Most every fan has complaints about "their teams" program, this is fairly normal. It is the kind of complaints, the furor in which they complain, and what they are complaining about that makes them a lunatic. It is one thing to say that you think other life forms may exist in this vast universe.....That is much different than if you are dressed up on a street corner in a robe, with tinfoil on your head, and you scream that the aliens are coming to probe everyone!

Get the difference? While I don't think you are on the street corner (as some of the lunatic fringe are that scream for KF to be fired, etc.). At the same time you beat the drum, and say the football program has been in decline since 2004, and totally ignore a recent 3 year stretch where Iowa won 28 football games and a BCS bowl game. Compare it to the "high" point you talk about with Iowa winning 31 games over a 3 year period, and lost it's one BCS bowl appearance......

Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz, and whomever coaches the Iowa Hawkeyes will always have the same problem sustaining excellent teams for more than 2,3, or 4 year stretches. The recruiting disadvantages are just too great to have long runs of 5-10 years. Even the blue bloods who have hugely populated states, and have 50+ years of traditions, and are currently cheating, have problems keeping 5-10 years runs going themselves. It is fantasy to think that Iowa can do this if they aren't cheating their a$$es off.

 

[Cory]

Most every fan has complaints about "their teams" program, this is fairly normal. It is the kind of complaints, the furor in which they complain, and what they are complaining about that makes them a lunatic. It is one thing to say that you think other life forms may exist in this vast universe.....That is much different than if you are dressed up on a street corner in a robe, with tinfoil on your head, and you scream that the aliens are coming to probe everyone!

Get the difference? While I don't think you are on the street corner (as some of the lunatic fringe are that scream for KF to be fired, etc.). At the same time you beat the drum, and say the football program has been in decline since 2004, and totally ignore a recent 3 year stretch where Iowa won 28 football games and a BCS bowl game. Compare it to the "high" point you talk about with Iowa winning 31 games over a 3 year period, and lost it's one BCS

Hayden Fry and Kirk Ferentz, and whomever coaches the Iowa Hawkeyes will always have the same problem sustaining excellent teams for more than 2,3, or 4 year stretches. The recruiting disadvantages are just too great to have long runs of 5-10 years. Even the blue bloods who have hugely populated states, and have 50+ years of traditions, and are currently cheating, have problems keeping 5-10 years runs going themselves. It is fantasy to think that Iowa can do this if they aren't cheating their a$$es off.

Don't they play one more game per than they used to in that stretch?

 

[hogeye]

Don't they play one more game per than they used to in that stretch?

Since 2000 I think there have been 3 years with 11 game schedules. 2000, 2004 and 2005.