Like Wagner/Fleming, not so high on Ellingson/Baer

ibahawkeye

ibahawkeye

Well-Known Member
I didn't get to see the first game or any of the exhibitions so last night was my first look at the new guys and my initial thoughts are I like Wagner and Fleming. Their bodies just seem like they are ready to play at this level. On the other hand and yes I know Brady lead the team in scoring and shot 80% but I think he will struggle when the competition improves. Coppin State played no D.

I'm undecided on Jones. Defense will be a struggle but on offense he could add a spark with the 3 ball and helps spread the offense/create driving lines by bringing his defender out.

Anybody else get their first look last night or perhaps now have seen a couple games... Care to add your evaluation of the young guys?
 
ibahawkeye said:
I didn't get to see the first game or any of the exhibitions so last night was my first look at the new guys and my initial thoughts are I like Wagner and Fleming. Their bodies just seem like they are ready to play at this level. On the other hand and yes I know Brady lead the team in scoring and shot 80% but I think he will struggle when the competition improves. Coppin State played no D.

I'm undecided on Jones. Defense will be a struggle but on offense he could add a spark with the 3 ball and helps spread the offense/create driving lines by bringing his defender out.

Anybody else get their first look last night or perhaps now have seen a couple games... Care to add your evaluation of the young guys?
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I am just the opposite on Fleming vs Brady. Fleming forces too many shots, misses too many passes, and doesn't play under control at all. I have been very impressed by Brady's cutting ability, and ability to get to the basket. It is going to give teams more to thing about when he is on the floor, other than just defending a spot up shooter.

I agree on Wagner tho, he looks good. Bear I'm mixed on. I think he is going to struggle against more athletic players.

The Jury is certainly out on all of these things, and I reserve the right to change my mind at any point in the future. :D
 
Fleming will be good once he figures out he can't do the things he got away with in high school.....one handed passes into traffic, lazy on D, etc. Ellingson gets it and I think he will be a good energy guy off the bench. Wagner will thrive in the B1G with his body type. Baer will be a good 10-12 min/game guy to spell others.
 
Ellingson is doing very well and Fran is very happy with him too. Baer played well against Gardner Webb I thought, gave them a little spark. Last night not as well. Need to remember he's a walk on. I don't see him getting more than 5-8 min a game if everyone is healthy and Ellingson and Jones continue to shoot well.
 
bogeyman said:
Ellingson is doing very well and Fran is very happy with him too. Baer played well against Gardner Webb I thought, gave them a little spark. Last night not as well. Need to remember he's a walk on. I don't see him getting more than 5-8 min a game if everyone is healthy and Ellingson and Jones continue to shoot well.
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Ellingson looks like he is starting to relax in the games. The first game he missed three free throws in a row and I doubt you will see that happen again. Fleming looks pretty good, but he doesn't look like he is relaxed playing for Iowa yet. The game will slow down for both Ellingson and Fleming pretty soon. They should be fun to watch. Wagner is going to be a star. It should be fun to watch him with the three big guys Iowa has coming in next year. Wagner and the guy from Missouri look like they could be brutal inside for Iowa. Jones looks like a difference maker to me. Fran has said that Baer is a guy that could play three or four positions, and it looks like it to me. Once Hutton and Moss learn the system, Iowa is going to look a lot different next year. Williams looks like he will be good next year at the point. The point guard coming in from Iowa is going to be good. With the Lickliter and Alford teams there was a star or two on the team, but Fran seems to be putting a team together in the future that is going to be loaded with stars.
 
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You could tell from interviews with Fleming that he wanted to prove that he could be more than just a shooter. These first two games he's played out of control and made poor decisions when to attack/pass even when there was an easy play to be made. He's been doing too much gambling on defense as well for my liking and it's lead to multiple defensive breakdowns. I don't think Fran trusts him to play against Marquette for any more than 2-3 minutes, if that frankly.

Like most walkons, Baer is limited. I zeroed in on him in the GW game and I thought he was outstanding however. He's got a quick release and is an excellent passer. When teams go zone against us, I'd like to see him in the middle of the zone... I think he could pick people apart. He also seems like a confident kid despite not being a scholarship guy, which is a bit of a rarity. I don't think he was really looking for his shot yesterday thus the lack of impact.
 
So last night was the first game the OP has seen and he wasn't impressed with Ellingson??
 
Stanzi said:
So last night was the first game the OP has seen and he wasn't impressed with Ellingson??
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It was Coppin State who gave up 107 points to Eastern Kentucky. I acknowledged he had a good game and up to this point he's certainly outplayed Andrew.

However, I just think Fleming will end up being a better player than Ellingson. I think they are both good shooters but I think Fleming looks stronger. Checked the roster and Fleming out weighs Ellingson by 16 pounds. He seems like a player that will do better when the competition improves.

I also thought it seemed as though the officials called it fairly tight. Some touchy fouls. I think that probably changes as the season progresses. We won't get those types of calls in Big 10 action.
 
deanvogs said:
I am just the opposite on Fleming vs Brady. Fleming forces too many shots, misses too many passes, and doesn't play under control at all. I have been very impressed by Brady's cutting ability, and ability to get to the basket. It is going to give teams more to thing about when he is on the floor, other than just defending a spot up shooter.

I agree on Wagner tho, he looks good. Bear I'm mixed on. I think he is going to struggle against more athletic players.

The Jury is certainly out on all of these things, and I reserve the right to change my mind at any point in the future. :D
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I watched both regular season games and came away with a similar impression. However the season is very young and it's difficult to judge anyone by such a small sample size. Give it about six more games and we should have a much better idea on who the impact players are going to be.

Gesell's passing has been phenomenal (franny phase) and Uthoff is a player. Jones shoots excellent for a guy his size. For you older guys Ellington reminds me of Bobby Hansen when he was just a freshman. Wagner is going to be fun to watch as he gets bigger, stronger, and more experience.

When Jok gets back he needs to be more consistent as does Sapp.
 
We will have a lot of opportunity to judge how good Brady E. is, since he will get a ton of playing time. He is not just a catch and shoot three point specialist. Under rated defensive player, great at back cuts, understands floor balance, rebound aggressively, can run the floor Very Well. Will be a good free throw shooter and may get fouled more than we think. I think some of the above posts are right about many of the younger guys: They have a ceiling we can't identify yet, but may be pretty darn high. This will be a fascinating year, beyond just wins and losses.
 
Brady's efficiency was impressive, like Fran said. He seems to get himself open in a variety of ways.

Jones showed his offensive abilities, and is still capable of making a defensive impact with effort and that ridiculous wingspan.

Wagner is a beast. Is he seriously only 18? That kid will be special. (maybe not this year but someday he will be VERY good for this team)

Baer was solid, not terrible, but solid, which is about more than you could ask for from him at this point.

Flemming was sloppy.. but I think Fran loves his fearlessness, although we have already seen what that looks like when those tough shots aren't falling-- sloppiness.

Side Notes about the starters: MANNNN Gessel is playing at a high level after struggling in that exhibition
 
deanvogs said:
I am just the opposite on Fleming vs Brady. Fleming forces too many shots, misses too many passes, and doesn't play under control at all. I have been very impressed by Brady's cutting ability, and ability to get to the basket. It is going to give teams more to thing about when he is on the floor, other than just defending a spot up shooter.

I agree on Wagner tho, he looks good. Bear I'm mixed on. I think he is going to struggle against more athletic players.

The Jury is certainly out on all of these things, and I reserve the right to change my mind at any point in the future. :D
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I agree with you Deano on Ellingson and Fleming. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing AF redshirt. What I've seen with AF, so far, is a kid who is playing backwards, if you will. He's shooting when he should pass and passing when he should shoot. He will certainly get it, but will that happen this season and to the point he starts to provide more than BE is? Looking at BE, I see a kid that benefited from a RS to watch and learn. AF will be a player, but it'd be nice if he could just "learn" and take 1000 jumpers a day. He could be a force from the get-go, next season. Separating BE and AF by a year makes logistical sense. We'd have AF, Cook, Pemsl, Kreiner, Hutton, Moss and Bonhannon in the same class. Maybe this afford Bohannon to RS and work on his strength?
 
ArvadaHawk said:
I agree with you Deano on Ellingson and Fleming. In fact, I wouldn't mind seeing AF redshirt. What I've seen with AF, so far, is a kid who is playing backwards, if you will. He's shooting when he should pass and passing when he should shoot. He will certainly get it, but will that happen this season and to the point he starts to provide more than BE is? Looking at BE, I see a kid that benefited from a RS to watch and learn. AF will be a player, but it'd be nice if he could just "learn" and take 1000 jumpers a day. He could be a force from the get-go, next season. Separating BE and AF by a year makes logistical sense. We'd have AF, Cook, Pemsl, Kreiner, Hutton, Moss and Bonhannon in the same class. Maybe this afford Bohannon to RS and work on his strength?
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I think AF will "get it" sooner than later. I agree with you though that he will be playing catch up with Ellingson (and remain behind him) all season long. That said, I don't want to see a red shirt for AF. We have Weiscamp coming as a FR when those two will be Sr. I think that will shake out about perfect. I don't think Bonhannon will RS as they will need him as the backup PG right away with Gesell and Clemmons leaving. I don't think 3 red shirts in a class is a smart thing personally.
 
What the hell kind of F'ed up criteria are you using?

Ellingson looks way better than Fleming.

I can can guarantee you after watching that Ellingson will be a part of the rotation all year, Fleming will be lucky to see the floor.
 
Efficiency of movement is huge in basketball, Ellingson and Baer both get it.

BE will play a good role for this team, as will Wagner. Baer will be a contributor at some point but not this year.

Williams will be the true frosh gaurd who sees PT .
 
This is not a detailed, well researched evaluation..initial eye test for me is ellingson is stiff in the hips and doesn't run like a "star" basketball player......now if he can get open shots and be that guy off the bench that drills 3-4 treys a game....great....but not seeing Div I athleticism at the moment. Baer....he's probably a grinder...but doesn't play on a lot of previous hawk teams.
 
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