lets talk scheme on D

obviously when we have fantastic LBers we can do the base scheme, and frankly that's what i'd rather. but, we don't have that now and it honestly doesn't look like that will happen next year. so, the question is, do we just keep the standard set, or mix it up in adjusting to our personnel?

i'd like to see us show different looks. you can play 5 yards off on the WR's and not do press coverage. you can show that man look and roll into zone. you can run man under and still keep the two safeties in deep zones.

frankly, i don't watch "game tape", so i'm stuck watching the game on tv. they don't show what's going on back there, just going off of what i've heard many times over. i certainly could be wrong.

i will be the last one to call for a scheme change on D, just some ideas for giving different looks or adjustments to benefit our strengths.
 
big10fan said:
obviously when we have fantastic LBers we can do the base scheme, and frankly that's what i'd rather. but, we don't have that now and it honestly doesn't look like that will happen next year. so, the question is, do we just keep the standard set, or mix it up in adjusting to our personnel?

i'd like to see us show different looks. you can play 5 yards off on the WR's and not do press coverage. you can show that man look and roll into zone. you can run man under and still keep the two safeties in deep zones.

frankly, i don't watch "game tape", so i'm stuck watching the game on tv. they don't show what's going on back there, just going off of what i've heard many times over. i certainly could be wrong.

i will be the last one to call for a scheme change on D, just some ideas for giving different looks or adjustments to benefit our strengths.
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You make a great point. At the stadium you see certain things not shown on tv, but you miss many things that the tv viewers get to see, due to multiple camera angles and replay.

Watching the game on tv after seeing it at the stadium is not the same as watching game film.

It's why I ask from time to time, when I'm unsure about something, what others saw, from a different perspective.
 
We're not sure what we will have at LB next season. Morris will be in his third season as a starter, Kirksey will be in his second. Hitchens has little experience. Dibona and Gets where hurt. We don't know what Spears or Alston are going to be yet. And Nielson is gone. For all we know Hitchens and Kirksey could be vastly improved and Morris will continue to improve. If that happens we may well see a very solid group of LBs. I tend to think that we will see an improvement as a group from them. That leads me to hope that our d-line is much more consistent and that our secondary takes a step further as well. Losing Prater and Binns will hurt but I'm hoping young kids like Cooper and even Ekakite and Johnson can provide depth and consistency. I've always heard good things about Lowery and Castillo so hopefully they can fill Praters spot adequately.
 
shuman346 said:
We're not sure what we will have at LB next season. Morris will be in his third season as a starter, Kirksey will be in his second. Hitchens has little experience. Dibona and Gets where hurt. We don't know what Spears or Alston are going to be yet. And Nielson is gone. For all we know Hitchens and Kirksey could be vastly improved and Morris will continue to improve. If that happens we may well see a very solid group of LBs. I tend to think that we will see an improvement as a group from them. That leads me to hope that our d-line is much more consistent and that our secondary takes a step further as well. Losing Prater and Binns will hurt but I'm hoping young kids like Cooper and even Ekakite and Johnson can provide depth and consistency. I've always heard good things about Lowery and Castillo so hopefully they can fill Praters spot adequately.
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I do like our LB crew that is coming back but I don't want to see a LB covering a slot receiver like we have seen so many times before. I do think Kirksey is a good cover guy but that was when he was 220. I bet with his frame Coach D will have him close to 235 and he may lose a step. I'd like to see on 2nd or 3rd and long our staff pull a LB and puts in a cover DB. How many times last year did we give up a first down to a slot receiver on 3rd and 8??? Drove me nuts last year.

We also need to be sure that our Ends aren't the thick ankle guys that we ran out there last year so contain isn't broken so much. Binns was average with his contain and the rest struggled to stop a QB from braking contain.
 
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big10fan said:
would like to see a few minor tweaks on D, i think we all would.

i'd like to see us let our DE's attack the QB instead of being so afraid of losing contain. now this isn't a blanket statement for all QB's

i'd like to see us go into press coverage occasionally. we have decent to good speed at corner, like to see us not give up so much cushion.

lastly, would be great if we could blitz without showing it. seems like we can't blitz without having the LB walk up to the line. or if we're going to do it like that, to actually fake the blitz, cause i can't remember a time when we gave that look and didn't blitz.

anyway, looking forward to some actual discussion on scheme.
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I think in talking to many hawk fans and by observing myself the major deficit of the Norm P years was giving up too high a percentage of 3rd and long conversions. Norm's Dee was always great against the run, usually did very well on first and second down, but too many times could not get off the field on 3rd and long.

Therefore, I agree that we need to add in a mixture of "some" blitzes with changes in press, zone, regular man, etc.

When the Hawks play contain pass rush and soft zone defense letting receivers run free is when we give the QB 5 plus seconds to pick us apart.

I like what Moose Johnson and Siragusa say which is "pro QBs hate to have pressure straight up in their face", the Giants do it Brady.

I would like to see more variety of different defenses mixed in on especially 3rd and long so college QBs do not get comfortable.

Blitz occasionally with one extra player, mainly up the middle where a Dee-Line stunt can open a lane to the QB. Quick pressure in the QBs face make them drop the ball and you have won half the war because they cant throw very well when they have the ball at their waste.

Bump and run to take away the easy slant passes that we give up too easily.

I think those two things can really make the defense more efficient.

Thoughts????
 
shuman346 said:
We're not sure what we will have at LB next season. Morris will be in his third season as a starter, Kirksey will be in his second. Hitchens has little experience. Dibona and Gets where hurt. We don't know what Spears or Alston are going to be yet. And Nielson is gone. For all we know Hitchens and Kirksey could be vastly improved and Morris will continue to improve. If that happens we may well see a very solid group of LBs. I tend to think that we will see an improvement as a group from them. That leads me to hope that our d-line is much more consistent and that our secondary takes a step further as well. Losing Prater and Binns will hurt but I'm hoping young kids like Cooper and even Ekakite and Johnson can provide depth and consistency. I've always heard good things about Lowery and Castillo so hopefully they can fill Praters spot adequately.
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I hope I'm wrong but expecting Faith and Jaleel to really contribute a lot as true freshman is going to be tough. The great news is that in 2-3 years our D Line could dominate........bad news is that next year we could be painful unless we find a way to get pressure. I think Lowery can cover ok so I'm not too worried if he can stay healthy. Catillo can't cover like that so if we get him one on one we are going to have to make some changes or see if Lomax can play CB
 
hawkihayes said:
How many times last year did we give up a first down to a slot receiver on 3rd and 8??? Drove me nuts last year.

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Last year, you must not have been watching a lot of hawkeye football under ferentz. We have been giving up way too many 3rd and long conversions for years because we have lbkrs covering fast receivers. And by rarely blitzing and not mixing up defenses.

This has been my one and only complaint in the Norm Parker years as I mentioned in a previous reply.
 
The thing that ticks me off more than anything in the world is when we play soft on the WR's and leave the slant open all day. Especially against a team like NW where they get it out quick and we have no shot at a pass rush.
 
Guys, we can play that game all day long. I say DL, you say LB, I say S for not giving help over the top. Point is it all starts up front. In a 4-3 you have to stop the run up the gut EVERY time. No exceptions. You also have to generate some sort of pressure. Without that, it makes the whole D look bad. Any LB is going to have problems with coverage, if the qb has all day. Plug the hole up so bad, your DT's get doubled all the time and the DE's will have a good game. The Qb wont have all day and the LB's will be fine.
 
olddude said:
Guys, we can play that game all day long. I say DL, you say LB, I say S for not giving help over the top. Point is it all starts up front. In a 4-3 you have to stop the run up the gut EVERY time. No exceptions. You also have to generate some sort of pressure. Without that, it makes the whole D look bad. Any LB is going to have problems with coverage, if the qb has all day. Plug the hole up so bad, your DT's get doubled all the time and the DE's will have a good game. The Qb wont have all day and the LB's will be fine.
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But on third and long you should be able to play a dime package with a good spy lbkr in the middle who can cover and chase down a QB. Then send the occasional blitz from many directions to confuse the QB. Then even rush 3 once in awhile. Dont get into a set pattern.

And this isnt the NFL, you can chuck and bump receivers off their routes more dramatically in college.
 
big10fan said:
The thing that ticks me off more than anything in the world is when we play soft on the WR's and leave the slant open all day. Especially against a team like NW where they get it out quick and we have no shot at a pass rush.
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You are correct and it is maddening. The slant and little sit down routes are the bread and butter that kills us and that we dont us enough of. Take away the slant and make the QB throw a tougher pass.
 
olddude said:
Guys, we can play that game all day long. I say DL, you say LB, I say S for not giving help over the top. Point is it all starts up front. In a 4-3 you have to stop the run up the gut EVERY time. No exceptions. You also have to generate some sort of pressure. Without that, it makes the whole D look bad. Any LB is going to have problems with coverage, if the qb has all day. Plug the hole up so bad, your DT's get doubled all the time and the DE's will have a good game. The Qb wont have all day and the LB's will be fine.
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That's why it would be awesome to have a true 1 tech DT. Don't have to do stunts as the only way to get pressure from the DT position. Either that or get some freaks like King or Diesel.
 
Thanks to all of you for a very informative exchange! I get so tired of reading posts that cannot seem to stay productive and informative. I really learned a lot from these three pages. NO sarcasm here!

I am interested in more about the role of the defensive end in the Iowa defense. Do we ever shift the contain responsibility to a LB or even a safety coming up? I don't mean a blitz; I mean true outside contain.

Also, it seems to me that Iowa has used LB's that have less bulk and more speed the last couple of years. I would guess that is to counter the running QB's we see more of these days. But, does that hurt us at the other end...i.e., more traditional running teams?

Penn State, Michigan State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Iowa, probably Michigan in the near future, Nebraska (largely), all seem to stay with pro sets and run first offenses. Who knows about Minnesota, Illinois, Indiana in the near future. Will be interesting!

Thanks again for the great discussion.
 
A one tech doesn't matter if if is on the weak or strong side, that is more depended on whether or not the defense is an under or over front.
 
spudhawk said:
A 1 tech is a true Nose and the key to running a successful run stopping 3-4. All of these suggestions are solid, but Iowa did allow Prater to press occoasionally and they also incorporated a few delayed blitzes last season which were successful. I think that the defense will show more varied looks next season out of base personnel, but for the most part Iowa's base scheme is effective. If Iowa can be more effective on third and long it willl go a long way towards shoring up the defense next season, which has been an issue against smart qbs for a long time.

One last thing, when Iowa had their best personnel over the last few seasons (2009 and 2008) they were more aggressive on third downs than many realize.
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A true nose in a 3-4 would be a 0 technique.
 
hawkihayes said:
I do like our LB crew that is coming back but I don't want to see a LB covering a slot receiver like we have seen so many times before. I do think Kirksey is a good cover guy but that was when he was 220. I bet with his frame Coach D will have him close to 235 and he may lose a step. I'd like to see on 2nd or 3rd and long our staff pull a LB and puts in a cover DB. How many times last year did we give up a first down to a slot receiver on 3rd and 8??? Drove me nuts last year.

We also need to be sure that our Ends aren't the thick ankle guys that we ran out there last year so contain isn't broken so much. Binns was average with his contain and the rest struggled to stop a QB from braking contain.
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Couple quick points, we ran nickle and dime in 3rd and long last year more than we ever have so in all likely hood, the guy driving you nuts was a Db on that slot guy...

Teams that use Lber to cover the slot, i/e: all the NFL, Alabama, most of the best of the best defenses, etc at many times during the game...are pretty normal anymore.

Bigach as it turned out (didn't he run someone down clear down the field) is plenty quick and fast enuff and hardly thick ankled and Binns defintely wasn't...Contain is more a product of strength, postioning and play recognition than quickness for what its worth...thats where we have failed. Our experience and football smarts aren't near what they used to be...physically we are on par or better than ever. Our football acumen however is not!
 
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vegtsh01 said:
A one tech doesn't matter if if is on the weak or strong side, that is more depended on whether or not the defense is an under or over front.
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true, its just that he's usually on the weak side. or at least that's the way i'm familiar with, you can certainly move guys around to tweak things. especially to adjust to what the other team is doing.

to the question on how Iowa runs their DE's. i'm no expert, but it looks like contain is the primary responsibility of the DE. would be interesting to be in the huddle and if they ever really get the green light to rush the passer. it all really depends on who the QB is though. much more effective to keep D Robinson in the pocket and make him throw it as an example.
 
cmhawks99 said:
Contain is more a product of strength, postioning and play recognition than quickness for what its worth...thats where we have failed. Our experience and football smarts aren't near what they used to be...physically we are on par or better than ever. Our football acumen however is not!
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and maybe that's why Reese is being moved over. to better teach the guys how to read their keys. the D line is all about reading your keys and who you have responsibility over. not as much thinking as say a 3 man line with multiple gap responsibilities, but still have to be able to quickly identify what's going on.
 
cmhawks99 said:
Contain is more a product of strength, postioning and play recognition than quickness for what its worth...thats where we have failed. Our experience and football smarts aren't near what they used to be...physically we are on par or better than ever. Our football acumen however is not!
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You make a good point. Several to many times last year it was like the young defense was not on the same page schematically. For instance, on Minny's 4th down winning score Kirksey crashed down even though we had plenty of inside players and we had no contain. Not blaming but it was just a bad time to have that happen.
 
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