lets talk scheme on D

[Foval21]

there are a few things i would like to see the defense do that i think would make for a better overall defense and it wont mean any different skilled players.

1) i would like to see us use a ny giants pass rush on 3rd and long. that means have 4 defensive ends in and lose the dts. this will allow for a better speed rush without having to blitz.

2) we play a lot of dt games with twists. i would like to see our dts and des twist more with each other. since our dts are closer to des than most teams lets use them to cause havoc like that and this will force double teams and keep linemen off the lbs.

3) if we want to stay in a base 4-3 in obvious passing downs i am ok with it. but i want kirksey, hitchens, and morris as the lbs as they are by far the only ones with the speed to stay with guys as hitchens and kirksey are just large safeties.

4) i am ok with the cushion by cbs but they have to play like safeties when they give that cushion. seperate wr from ball when you hit. we need to work on their break as they seem slow to break and get their a step late. to me it is their break not their cushion that is costing them.

5) stick with the delayed blitz from the lbs. it was our best blitz and confused qbs the best as they would go through their progression and smack there is kirksey or morris.

6) no more 3-4 it isnt even a 3-4 it is more of a nickel that rushes 3. qbs get way too much time when we are in it. go to a 4-2-5 nickel or go with the small lbs from #3.

7) we need to play the young guys and see what they can do. remember the growing pains of some of the frosh and sophs that played before? i do and they turned into the best dls we had the next year or two after. i would rather be undersized with fire than an upperclassmen without the ability.

8) play more guys on the dl. we should play 8 guys and rotate. that will keep them fresh. last yr we should have done this where binns and daniels are on the field 90% and then 6 guys rotate with them.

9) i love cover 2 and think it is great but we need more man-to-man. we have hyde and lowery and law and etc. our dbs and lbs are some of the fastest weve ever had as groups (not necessary individuals). use it and this will free up more blitz opportunities because to blitz you must play man in our system or you leave a big hole.

10) tackle better. the last 2 yrs have been the worst form tackling teams i have ever seen at iowa. too many guys trying to tackle without wrapping. and we arent gang tackling like i am used to seeing iowa do. go oldschool in practice and get the drills going and do oklahoma drill and gang tackliy.y

 

[JohnstonHawkeye]

Couple quick points, we ran nickle and dime in 3rd and long last year more than we ever have so in all likely hood, the guy driving you nuts was a Db on that slot guy...

Teams that use Lber to cover the slot, i/e: all the NFL, Alabama, most of the best of the best defenses, etc at many times during the game...are pretty normal anymore.

Bigach as it turned out (didn't he run someone down clear down the field) is plenty quick and fast enuff and hardly thick ankled and Binns defintely wasn't...Contain is more a product of strength, postioning and play recognition than quickness for what its worth...thats where we have failed. Our experience and football smarts aren't near what they used to be...physically we are on par or better than ever. Our football acumen however is not!

If you think that Donatell was a nickel back then either you were mistaken or he was the poorest excuse for a nickel back in the history of college football. Every time he was over the slot receiver on third and long it was at least a 90% chance that the opponent was going to convert by throwing to whoever Donatell was covering, it was like money in the bank and truly maddening.

 

[cmhawks99]

there are a few things i would like to see the defense do that i think would make for a better overall defense and it wont mean any different skilled players.

1) i would like to see us use a ny giants pass rush on 3rd and long. that means have 4 defensive ends in and lose the dts. this will allow for a better speed rush without having to blitz.

2) we play a lot of dt games with twists. i would like to see our dts and des twist more with each other. since our dts are closer to des than most teams lets use them to cause havoc like that and this will force double teams and keep linemen off the lbs.

3) if we want to stay in a base 4-3 in obvious passing downs i am ok with it. but i want kirksey, hitchens, and morris as the lbs as they are by far the only ones with the speed to stay with guys as hitchens and kirksey are just large safeties.

4) i am ok with the cushion by cbs but they have to play like safeties when they give that cushion. seperate wr from ball when you hit. we need to work on their break as they seem slow to break and get their a step late. to me it is their break not their cushion that is costing them.

5) stick with the delayed blitz from the lbs. it was our best blitz and confused qbs the best as they would go through their progression and smack there is kirksey or morris.

6) no more 3-4 it isnt even a 3-4 it is more of a nickel that rushes 3. qbs get way too much time when we are in it. go to a 4-2-5 nickel or go with the small lbs from #3.

7) we need to play the young guys and see what they can do. remember the growing pains of some of the frosh and sophs that played before? i do and they turned into the best dls we had the next year or two after. i would rather be undersized with fire than an upperclassmen without the ability.

8) play more guys on the dl. we should play 8 guys and rotate. that will keep them fresh. last yr we should have done this where binns and daniels are on the field 90% and then 6 guys rotate with them.

9) i love cover 2 and think it is great but we need more man-to-man. we have hyde and lowery and law and etc. our dbs and lbs are some of the fastest weve ever had as groups (not necessary individuals). use it and this will free up more blitz opportunities because to blitz you must play man in our system or you leave a big hole.

10) tackle better. the last 2 yrs have been the worst form tackling teams i have ever seen at iowa. too many guys trying to tackle without wrapping. and we arent gang tackling like i am used to seeing iowa do. go oldschool in practice and get the drills going and do oklahoma drill and gang tackliy.y

This imo is the number one problem with our D and team as a whole...we are not as physical as we were. We got faster, but less physical and mentally sound!!!

 

[big10fan]

klink and humpel were not nearly as athletic as the current group, but knew their assignment and performed it to near perfection

 

[olddude]

I think alot of us are on the same page here. I dont think we need to change as much as we need to tighten up and I think that is the general thought here. I know after Pat A moved to mike, he did very well, brains and a line that let him play that position the way it should be were most likely the reason for sucess. Without either he never would have done so well. The scheme works.
I do agree with letting younger guys in, but only if they are better. If you want to play you have to raise the bar so to speak. That said, you do need to rotate, so you might have to factor that in as well.

 

[cmhawks99]

klink and humpel were not nearly as athletic as the current group, but knew their assignment and performed it to near perfection

This has been a good thread and its cool and apropos for you to bring this up. They were likely more athletic than given credit for but not nearly in comparison to recent groups yet their production was more consistent for sure...

 

[GoldKey]

I think a shot blocker makes a world of diff.

Wait, what?

 

[Foval21]

have to say this was one of the best thread reads to se what people thought and stayed very civil. shows what we know instead of how catty some people get. so here is a bump to see if we can get anymore ideas.

 

[spudhawk]

I want the Hawks to run more cover 3 with a safety in the box on early downs to mix looks and relieve pressure versus the run on early downs and to mix coverages when they play nickel and dime packages. almost exclusively man cover when they play extra dbs.

 

[Foval21]

i wouldnt mind seeing iowa try to run a tampa 2 if they have the mlb to do it. if alston is the guy i dont think we can. if morris is in the middle then i think it is possible. it would allow our cbs to play tighter as the mlb has a deep middle and allows the safeties to hug closer to the sideline. you need a mlb witha lot of athleticism and speed to pull it off. not saying morris is urlacher but he is similar in that he is undersized and really fast. i think it would be something to play with depending on the mlb.

 

[hogeye]

Most NFL teams aren't even running Tampa 2 anymore. It's largely a defense that was predicated on undersized teams that had speed in lieu of power.

Take that to the NCAA where Iowa is typically larger and slower...yeah, there is a recipe for fail. Plus, in general, your college level D's are not nearly as talented and disciplined as they are at the NFL level. So, the Tampa 2 was never really popular in college.

 

[Foval21]

Most NFL teams aren't even running Tampa 2 anymore. It's largely a defense that was predicated on undersized teams that had speed in lieu of power.Take that to the NCAA where Iowa is typically larger and slower...yeah, there is a recipe for fail. Plus, in general, your college level D's are not nearly as talented and disciplined as they are at the NFL level. So, the Tampa 2 was never really popular in college.

so we are bigger and slower than the teams we play? we tend to be a smaller and actually tend to be pretty fast for our positions. i am not saying it would be a great defense as things would have to change but it is based off similar principals to our cover 2 that we run predominantly now. the tampa 2 was not designed because of smaller and faster. it was designed because the teams had really fast athletic safeties and mlb.

 

[hogeye]

so we are bigger and slower than the teams we play? we tend to be a smaller and actually tend to be pretty fast for our positions. i am not saying it would be a great defense as things would have to change but it is based off similar principals to our cover 2 that we run predominantly now. the tampa 2 was not designed because of smaller and faster. it was designed because the teams had really fast athletic safeties and mlb.

Smaller, in some cases, our DL tends to be plenty big up front. As far as faster, we have never, ever been known being a speed team.

Sometimes our LBer's are more undersized and faster, I can concede that.

Generally speaking, the issue is moot because the Tampa 2 / Cover 2 generally isn't a solution in the college game anyway.

 

[Foval21]

our dl doesnt tend to be that big. the outlier is the ballard, clayborn years as those two were huge des for us (ballard being a de/dt). but if you look back our defensive line tends to be undersized especially at the dts. we focus more on skill and technique and quickness than raw size and strength. same goes for our ol. we rarely have guys that puah past 280-285 range on dl and rarely push past 300-310 range on ol. those would be considered small linemen.

 

[hawkfan2679]

I think we play as much, if not more, quarters coverage and/or 1/4 / 1/4 / 1/2 coverage as we do cover 2. Check the cushion that Hawk fans hate so much...it can be a sign (not always, however) of the coverage we're in...if we're in cover 2, that cushion shouldn't be as big. If it's quarters or cover 6 (at least to the field), that cushion is going to be larger.

Personally, I'd like to see a little more variety, but when we are going to go vanilla go with a cover 2. Hyde is physical enough...not sure about Lowery/Castillo on the other side. Phil is a big cover 6 guy though...who knows, maybe we'll flop corners to put our guys in the best positions to be successful.

 

[hogeye]

our dl doesnt tend to be that big. the outlier is the ballard, clayborn years as those two were huge des for us (ballard being a de/dt). but if you look back our defensive line tends to be undersized especially at the dts. we focus more on skill and technique and quickness than raw size and strength. same goes for our ol. we rarely have guys that puah past 280-285 range on dl and rarely push past 300-310 range on ol. those would be considered small linemen.

Iowa is anything but one of the faster, more mobile teams in the B10 or the nation, period. And back to the main point, the Tampa 2 isn't going to happen. There never has been a lot of it in CFB for many reasons. It's a ludicrous suggestion. We do some Cover 2, that's where it starts and ends.

 

[rodg12]

Couple quick points, we ran nickle and dime in 3rd and long last year more than we ever have so in all likely hood, the guy driving you nuts was a Db on that slot guy...

Teams that use Lber to cover the slot, i/e: all the NFL, Alabama, most of the best of the best defenses, etc at many times during the game...are pretty normal anymore.

Bigach as it turned out (didn't he run someone down clear down the field) is plenty quick and fast enuff and hardly thick ankled and Binns defintely wasn't...Contain is more a product of strength, postioning and play recognition than quickness for what its worth...thats where we have failed. Our experience and football smarts aren't near what they used to be...physically we are on par or better than ever. Our football acumen however is not!

Your reference to the NFL here is inaccurate. We're seeing more Nickle played in the league right now than ever before. LSU played a TON of Nickle last year two with Honey Badger in the slot as well.

 

[Foval21]

many teams in the nfl are running more nickel package, some of them have changed their nickel to be a better run defense by using a safety as the 5 db rather than a cb. this almost gives them more of a hybrid nickel with base defense. this is why one of the things i would like to see if we stay base as much as we do is to have a package with hitchens, kirksey, and morris. kirksey and hitchens are basically big safeties.

 

[cmhawks99]

Your reference to the NFL here is inaccurate. We're seeing more Nickle played in the league right now than ever before. LSU played a TON of Nickle last year two with Honey Badger in the slot as well.

True…..more than ever being the operative word...meaning they still use Lbers and incidentally we used the nickel & dime more than ever the last 2 years as well, so I'm not sure where I'm off.....

In fact the Giants picked off a pass 50 yards down field in the super bowl with a Lber and a big one at that. If that was Iowa our fans would be PO’d. Now yes I get Gronkowski is a TE and a gimpy one at that, but the point remains, he plays in the slot/H-back viola and he is a super star….

Also Hogeye, it seems you and I track fairly closely and I agree with your premise, but I will tell you this….I have followed Pro days and NFL combines diligently for about 5 years and Iowa is shockingly more athletic than fans realize. In fact the totality of the Big 10 is……we have put many very quick, agile DL’s, Lbers and DB’s in the NFL class after class…..

From Humpal…4.68 great agilities to Angerer 4.63, Edds 4.66, Miles In the 4.6’s, Greenway 4.58, Hodge 4.66, Tarpinian apparently ran a 4.48, Hunter ran a 4.72 which is plenty fast enuff for a Lber, etc, etc…..and the linemen have been even more impressive. Same goes with the DB’s…..

 

[hogeye]

many teams in the nfl are running more nickel package, some of them have changed their nickel to be a better run defense by using a safety as the 5 db rather than a cb. this almost gives them more of a hybrid nickel with base defense. this is why one of the things i would like to see if we stay base as much as we do is to have a package with hitchens, kirksey, and morris. kirksey and hitchens are basically big safeties.

So, I am confused, you want more nickel packages or Tampa 2?