Rule #1 in an arguement - Don't help prove your opposition's point.
A better statement would have been, "Michigan & PSU have been bad over the last 10 years which has helped Iowa's overall B10 record during that span."
Let's get real here
- Thread starter DuffMan
- Start date
Rule #1 in an arguement - Don't help prove your opposition's point.
A better statement would have been, "Michigan & PSU have been bad over the last 10 years which has helped Iowa's overall B10 record during that span."
AHawk1
Well-Known Member
Great Post Duff. The team was flat on Saturday and that happens. I think a lot of the melt down is still a result of last year(I think the staff under performed last year-Big time). I think the fans need to see this year and next as the rebuilding years. We can't get last year back, and lets hope in the future when we have the talent to make a run at a Big 10 title the Staff is ready for it and corrects the mistakes that were made last year. KF is the classiest guy in FB and has a great staff. Do they make mistakes, you bet, but it would be a major blow if we lost him.
Maybe, as a Clone fan pointed out. That we lost our Superbowl and some of the posters can't get over that.
Maybe, as a Clone fan pointed out. That we lost our Superbowl and some of the posters can't get over that.
I don't think Iowa "wins" that way. That's the myth. In year's past Iowa has been most successful as an offense with hitting big plays in both the running game and passing game, looking to throw downfield, jumping on teams early, and then slowing it down. You talk as if every win was the result of ultra conservative coaching, when there have been many wins resulting from being aggressive, or jumping on a team early and then going conservative.
I'm not turning a blind eye to what's been successful. But punting from the opponent's 33 in the first quarter when you chose to receive the toss, you have the defense on its heals and you know trips into their territory will be at a premium is well within the bounds of reasonable internet debate.
Im upset that Iowa could have not practiced the last 2 weeks and the result could probably be very similar. So our performance against against an average team with 2 weeks of prep? An unprepared team is blamed on coaching. How about last year when we underachieved? Isnt that coaching as well?
Also, Iowa didn't win the Big 10 in 02 being conservative. They throttled people from opening kick. They didn't win the Big 10 in 04 being totally conservative. They were completely unpredictable at times (not by choice, but due to injury) in letting Tate make plays. They beat Penn St. by being ultra conservative. They took it to Ohio State by playing wide open - even scoring before the end of the half.
They didn't get to the Orange Bowl in 09 being conservative. That team was completely reckless with the ball, but made up for it with big plays. Point being Iowa has won some games being conservative, but to say Iowa's success is the sole result of being conservative is not accurate. I think if you did a breakdown of each game since 2001 you could very easily find that Iowa has had its most success when being relative more aggressive.
They didn't get to the Orange Bowl in 09 being conservative. That team was completely reckless with the ball, but made up for it with big plays. Point being Iowa has won some games being conservative, but to say Iowa's success is the sole result of being conservative is not accurate. I think if you did a breakdown of each game since 2001 you could very easily find that Iowa has had its most success when being relative more aggressive.
okeefe4prez
Well-Known Member
The most telling statistic about Kurt Ferentz is that he is 21-20 in B10 bince 2006, Pat Fitzgerald, who is dealing with drastically inferior facilities, a home stadium that never really has home field advantage, being thrust into the head coaching role well before he was ready, academic standards that are the tops in the conference and an athletic director who wouldn't tolerate double digit annual arrests is sitting just behind Kurt at 18-24 in that time frame. And Pat's making a lot less money, too. Given the advantages Iowa has over NU, I think this is a travesty.
hawkeyescott
Well-Known Member
Look, we get it that you hate coaching staff, now move on or get lost.
olivecourt
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but NU doesn't have to share salary info, so we don't know how much Fitzgerald makes. We do know that he's five games under .500 in Big Ten play and has never won a bowl game. For this, he's been extended to 2020.
Our coach is 10 games over .500 in Big Ten play with six bowl wins. His contract ends five years before Fitzgerald's does.
BlckNGldHwk
Well-Known Member
I agree it's within the bounds of reasonable debate. But some people are not debating, instead they act like there shouldn't have even been a choice, that anything besides going for it was wrong. We have a great punter and they decided that pinning PSU inside their own 10 was likely to have more benefit than attempting to convert a 4th and 8 or kick a 50 yard field goal. I think all three options were viable choices. And I think the coaches probably discussed all three options. They went with what they felt gave them the best likely outcome. It's fine to disagree with that decision, but some act like they shouldn't have even considered punting, let alone actually punt.
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
Maybe I shouldn't have thrown my last sentence in there...I'm Switzerland on this one. I think the OP was solid, but I think that a B10 comparison isn't indicative of how things "usually" are because Michigan and PSU have had some really down years, which has certainly helped us because we've had some really "up" years and have taken advantage of those two teams to boost our own record.
uofihawkInation
Well-Known Member
Penn State had 11 wins in both 2008 and 2009, 9 wins in both 2007 and 2006, another 11 win season in 2005. So 3 11 win seasons and two 9 win seasons, out of the last 5, are "bad years of recent memory?" That seems like some pretty solid years to me.
Also, why do you think these past 10 years have been our best in program history? Perhaps that has something to do with the coach that runs the program.. or perhaps you don't realize what that coach has done for this program.
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
Apparently you missed my post directly above yours.
The last 5 have been pretty good...last year's 7-6 being the exception. The first part of the decade is what PSU fans refer to as their "dark years." Win totals:
2001 - 5
2002 - 9
2003 - 3
2004 - 4
uofihawkInation
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, by recent I took that as the last few years, which is when they've been good. Also, if you can have a 4 win season, followed by a 3 win season and then finish the decade off they way they did, you are a fairly good program.
hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
My bad...in my head when I said "recent" I was referring to Duff's period of reflection (last 10 years).
Edit - This is why you don't make harried posts with someone your office. Articulation gets lost...
Very cool. Do you live there? Vacation? Please don't tell me you have to work if it a vacation?
olivecourt
Well-Known Member
I just want to see one person in this thread acknowledge that Michigan's "dark period" didn't happen accidentally. It happened because they got tired of a 5x Big Ten and 1x national champion coach, decided that they wanted to go to the "next level," and ended up in a pretty terrible downward spiral. Maybe they're out of it now, with Hoke, but I need to see a full Big Ten season out of Denard before I'm a believer. Outside of that one player, what do they really have that points to the sort of success they had in the Carr years? How would Iowa be any different if they fired KF (which they obviously won't, because they aren't fools)?
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hawkfan2679
Well-Known Member
The reference to Switzerland was to alert others of my neutrality. I think I'm on record as not being a huge Ferentz fan (and a lot of the moves he makes just flat out **** me off to no end), but his past results can't be ignored. It has been convenient for him that PSU and Michigan were down (PSU for the first part of the decade, Mich more towards the latter half).
As for Switzerland in you context..alas, I'm but a measly controller in Cedar Rapids, IA. Someday, I tell you.....someday.......
Can you imagine the meltdown if Iowa had the 4-year run listed above? Honestly, after seeing the lows some top programs (PSU, Michigan, Texas) have had, it's amazing Kirk has been able to keep the bottom from completely falling out of the program. 6-6 aint bad for the "worst" season in the last 10. Seems like Iowa under Ferentz has 2-3 year cycles, but it's not like he's going 3-9 or 4-8 like PSU did.
OUTofTOWNHAWK
Well-Known Member
Duff you need to read my post before replying. If you want to throw out years in Kirks record because he just got the program or was not playing with his recruits thats fine. Then you must go through all of the big ten and take out 1 or 2 seasons where a team got a new coach and maybe the next year because they were not using kids they recruited.
In 99 and OO Kirk was the coach. If you take those out then go through every program and when they had a coaching change take out that coaches first and second years.
SwirlinLingerie
Well-Known Member
Exactly. And looking at the past decade, which coach from a Big Ten program during this period would you rather have had running Iowa's program over Ferentz? That's a pretty short list to even consider.
