Let's get real here

DuffMan

DuffMan

Well-Known Member
This is for everyone that lacks the perspective to realize just how hard it is to win in the B10 consistently. I did this for all of you crybabies who complain we aren't getting good enough results out of our coach. It’s for everyone that thinks anyone who fails to call for massive firings after each loss is one of those "we're just Iowa" people who are part of the problem. It’s for everyone who thinks "we deserve better" for spending what we do on our football coach.

A football coach at the D1 BCS level is supposed to run a successful program. Success is measured in two ways 1) On the field 2) in the programs pocket books.

No one can argue that Iowa under KF hasn't been wildly successful financially. Donations are pouring in at record pace. Kinnick underwent major renovations. And the demand for tickets is literally at its highest point ever. As an organization Iowa football is one of the best programs in the nation.

What about on the field? Let’s look. Here are the B10 records for all conference members from 2001 to 2010. Why those years? Because 2001 was the first year KF really had this program going. We finished 7-5 that year for the first winning season since Fry left. It also makes a nice 10 year period to examine results. Let’s take a look shall we.

fOSU: 66-14, 82.5%
Iowa: 50-30, 62.5%
scUM: 50-30, 62.5%
Wisky: 47-33, 58.8%
PSU: 45-35, 56.3%
MSU: 37-43, 46.3%
Pur: 37-43, 46.3%
NW: 35-45, 43.8%
Minn: 28-52, 35.0%
ILL: 28-52, 35.0%
Ind: 17-63, 21.3%

Hmmm, color me shocked. Iowa has the 2nd best winning percentage in the B10 over the last decade. We’ve been better than Wisconsin and better than Penn State. Hell we are tied with scUM over that ten year period. To have that kind of success anywhere in the B10 isn’t easy, ask the 8 teams below us on the ladder. To have it at Iowa is incredibly difficult.
 
Thanks Duff, this is good stuff, and helps put some things in perspective. A lot of us (especially me) overeact after a loss. The Hawks were great 02-04, I would be curious to see what this looked like since then. But not curious enough to do the research right now :)
 
If you are going to throw out Kirks first year then you need to go through the list and throw out other coaches first year. Please use facts next time and not cherry pick to support what you want.
 
OUTofTOWNHAWK said:
If you are going to throw out Kirks first year then you need to go through the list and throw out other coaches first year. Please use facts next time and not cherry pick to support what you want.
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I'm not cherry picking anything. I gave you the two reasons I used the time period I did. 2001-2010 IMO is the best judge of who we are in the B10 as a whole under KF. If you want to use different criteria and come to a different conclusion feel to post your results including the logic behind it.
 
Also, PSU and UM have endured some of the worst years in their recent memory and it's being compared to our best 10 year run EVER.

But whatever works to make the argument...
 
Well you said we are tied with Mi but you didnt throw out Richrods adjustment seasons or any other coaches adjustment years. You are putting numbers out in a way to show your point but you are only giving Kirk a break.
 
OUTofTOWNHAWK said:
Well you said we are tied with Mi but you didnt throw out Richrods adjustment seasons or any other coaches adjustment years. You are putting numbers out in a way to show your point but you are only giving Kirk a break.
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Again I gave you the logic to why I used the 10 years that I did. I feel they are best used in trying to determine where Iowa is as a program right now. Please share why you feel the record of the team from 99 to 00 have anything to do with where we are now as a program.
 
DuffMan said:
This is for everyone that lacks the perspective to realize just how hard it is to win in the B10 consistently. I did this for all of you crybabies who complain we aren't getting good enough results out of our coach. It’s for everyone that thinks anyone who fails to call for massive firings after each loss is one of those "we're just Iowa" people who are part of the problem. It’s for everyone who thinks "we deserve better" for spending what we do on our football coach.

A football coach at the D1 BCS level is supposed to run a successful program. Success is measured in two ways 1) On the field 2) in the programs pocket books.

No one can argue that Iowa under KF hasn't been wildly successful financially. Donations are pouring in at record pace. Kinnick underwent major renovations. And the demand for tickets is literally at its highest point ever. As an organization Iowa football is one of the best programs in the nation.

What about on the field? Let’s look. Here are the B10 records for all conference members from 2001 to 2010. Why those years? Because 2001 was the first year KF really had this program going. We finished 7-5 that year for the first winning season since Fry left. It also makes a nice 10 year period to examine results. Let’s take a look shall we.

fOSU: 66-14, 82.5%
Iowa: 50-30, 62.5%
scUM: 50-30, 62.5%
Wisky: 47-33, 58.8%
PSU: 45-35, 56.3%
MSU: 37-43, 46.3%
Pur: 37-43, 46.3%
NW: 35-45, 43.8%
Minn: 28-52, 35.0%
ILL: 28-52, 35.0%
Ind: 17-63, 21.3%

Hmmm, color me shocked. Iowa has the 2nd best winning percentage in the B10 over the last decade. We’ve been better than Wisconsin and better than Penn State. Hell we are tied with scUM over that ten year period. To have that kind of success anywhere in the B10 isn’t easy, ask the 8 teams below us on the ladder. To have it at Iowa is incredibly difficult.
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Very solid info. Rational, which has been rare lately around here.

I do think the counter to that is also solid. You're cutting off the first two years of Kirk's tenure which are his worst and 3rd worst seasons at Iowa, regarding B10 records.

Lets do the opposite, take away his best season (2002) & 3rd best season (2009). Kirk's B10 record is 39-42 (.481).

Take it a step further. Take away 1999, 2000, 2002, & 2009 (his best and 3rd best teams & his worst & 3rd worst teams) and his record is 36-29 (.553) which is nearly indentical winning % to his overall career record at Iowa 53-44 (.546).

Kirk is a solid B10 coach who brings in a lot of money like you said. And that needs to be taken into account as well as wins/losses. This isn't the NFL, college football is just as much about money as it is about winning.

Personally, I want no part of showing him the door. However, its hard to argue with 12 years of data. As a B10 coach, his is solid, nothing more, nothing less. He's not the elite coach many thought he once was. Solid coaches have great years, like '02, '04, & '09 and they have bad years like '06, '07, '10. It is what is. Lets celebrate the good ones and hope the bad ones aren't that bad.
 
Xerxes said:
Very solid info. Rational, which has been rare lately around here.

I do think the counter to that is also solid. You're cutting off the first two years of Kirk's tenure which are his worst and 3rd worst seasons at Iowa, regarding B10 records.

Lets do the opposite, take away his best season (2002) & 3rd best season (2009). Kirk's B10 record is 39-42 (.481).

Take it a step further. Take away 1999, 2000, 2002, & 2009 (his best and 3rd best teams & his worst & 3rd worst teams) and his record is 36-29 (.553) which is nearly indentical winning % to his overall career record at Iowa 53-44 (.546).

Kirk is a solid B10 coach who brings in a lot of money like you said. And that needs to be taken into account as well as wins/losses. This isn't the NFL, college football is just as much about money as it is about winning.

Personally, I want no part of showing him the door. However, its hard to argue with 12 years of data. As a B10 coach, his is solid, nothing more, nothing less. He's not the elite coach many thought he once was. Solid coaches have great years, like '02, '04, & '09 and they have bad years like '06, '07, '10. It is what is. Lets celebrate the good ones and hope the bad ones aren't that bad.
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The difference is the 2009 and 2002 teams are much more indicative of who we are currently. If this argument is who has been the best coach at Iowa ever then certainly have to look at those first two years. I was looking to see how we staked up to the rest of the B10 over the last 10 years which IMO is the best way to figure out who we are as a program.

Does it help his record, of course, but it's also the most logical way to look at things.
 
Well done Duff. I think the stats you used are fair. I also like to hear a rational Hawk fan after a loss. So many people look to point fingers and figure out why we lost...when actually it's just a loss. Let's move on.

I can't believe I just called Duff rational. (insert shocked/scared face here)
 
I think there are a lot of people on this board who are mad at the way we lost/style of play who are getting confused with people who think we should win every game. I don't expect Iowa to win every game, and am not at all surprised we lost to Penn State at Penn State. No shame in losing at Penn State - I don't want anyone fired.

Regarding the statistics and how difficult it is to win, I think most people get that. I don't see what that has to do with choosing to punt from the other team's 33 on 4th and 8, burning a redshirt the previous week and not playing that kid at all this week, sitting on the ball with 1:45 and 2 timeouts at the end of the half, etc.

I can handle losing, but I'd rather lose firing all of the bullets in my gun, and from a fan's perspective it just doesn't feel like we are letting it all hang out each week to get the win.
 
DuffMan said:
The difference is the 2009 and 2002 teams are much more indicative of who we are currently. If this argument is who has been the best coach at Iowa ever then certainly have to look at those first two years. I was looking to see how we staked up to the rest of the B10 over the last 10 years which IMO is the best way to figure out who we are as a program.

Does it help his record, of course, but it's also the most logical way to look at things.
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I completely agree, very logical. The most logical post regardign Kirk, I've seen so far. Just wanted to point out some other numbers I believe to be significant.

And also I can understand why people are upset. Some are prisoners of the moment which is never good but some are being rational. A loss is one thing, I can understand that. But PSU was the one of the worst B10 performances Iowa's had in many years. Very poor performance against a team tha isn't very good on national TV. People have a right to be mad.
 
OUTofTOWNHAWK said:
If you are going to throw out Kirks first year then you need to go through the list and throw out other coaches first year. Please use facts next time and not cherry pick to support what you want.
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Here you go, every school had a new coach start since 2001 other than PSU and Iowa, so this is the winning percent for 8 years for each school except Iowa and PSU and you will find out it stil doesn't change much.

Every school at 10 years:
fOSU: 66-14, 82.5%
Iowa: 50-30, 62.5%
scUM: 50-30, 62.5%
Wisky: 47-33, 58.8%
PSU: 45-35, 56.3%
MSU: 37-43, 46.3%
Pur: 37-43, 46.3%
NW: 35-45, 43.8%
Minn: 28-52, 35.0%
ILL: 28-52, 35.0%
Ind: 17-63, 21.3%

Now after the records of each school the last 10 years with the 1st two years taken out except for Iowa and PSU.
OSU 53-11 82.8%
Michigan 47-17 73.4%
Iowa 50-30 62.5 %
PSU 45-35 56.3%
Wisconsin 35-29 54.7%
Purdue 31-33 48.4%
NW 30-34 46.9%
Mich St 28-36 43.8%
Illinois 27-37 42.2%
Minnesota 25-39 39%
Indiana 13-51 20.3%
 
NickM said:
I think there are a lot of people on this board who are mad at the way we lost/style of play who are getting confused with people who think we should win every game. I don't expect Iowa to win every game, and am not at all surprised we lost to Penn State at Penn State. No shame in losing at Penn State - I don't want anyone fired.

Regarding the statistics and how difficult it is to win, I think most people get that. I don't see what that has to do with choosing to punt from the other team's 33 on 4th and 8, burning a redshirt the previous week and not playing that kid at all this week, sitting on the ball with 1:45 and 2 timeouts at the end of the half, etc.

I can handle losing, but I'd rather lose firing all of the bullets in my gun, and from a fan's perspective it just doesn't feel like we are letting it all hang out each week to get the win.
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The problem with your argument is that if you want to complain for loosing that way you can't also turn a blind eye to winning that way. The bottom line is regardless of style or philosophy the only thing that matters is the W-L record. You have to let that speak for itself. When you do that you realize that Iowa has been very very successful over the last 10 years, more so than any other football program in the B10 not named Ohio State.
 
hawkeyescott said:
Here you go, every school had a new coach start since 2001 other than PSU and Iowa, so this is the winning percent for 8 years for each school except Iowa and PSU and you will find out it stil doesn't change much.

Every school at 10 years:
fOSU: 66-14, 82.5%
Iowa: 50-30, 62.5%
scUM: 50-30, 62.5%
Wisky: 47-33, 58.8%
PSU: 45-35, 56.3%
MSU: 37-43, 46.3%
Pur: 37-43, 46.3%
NW: 35-45, 43.8%
Minn: 28-52, 35.0%
ILL: 28-52, 35.0%
Ind: 17-63, 21.3%

Now after the records of each school the last 10 years with the 1st two years taken out except for Iowa and PSU.
OSU 53-11 82.8%
Michigan 47-17 73.4%
Iowa 50-30 62.5 %
PSU 45-35 56.3%
Wisconsin 35-29 54.7%
Purdue 31-33 48.4%
NW 30-34 46.9%
Mich St 28-36 43.8%
Illinois 27-37 42.2%
Minnesota 25-39 39%
Indiana 13-51 20.3%
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Good work. Game Day Iowa rules!
 
hawkfan2679 said:
Also, PSU and UM have endured some of the worst years in their recent memory and it's being compared to our best 10 year run EVER.

But whatever works to make the argument...
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I wonder why Michigan has had some of their worst years ever recently? Might it have something to do with firing a wildly successful coach (who had ties to the previous legendary coach) because fans got tired of him-- because they wanted to go to the "next level"?

Also, look at PSU's historical record and tell me that this is their worst ten-year stretch ever:

Penn State Nittany Lions football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I see long runs of 8, 9, 10 and 11 win seasons sandwiched with 2-3 year stretches of 4, 5, 6, and 7 win seasons. Does that sound familiar? It would if KF had ever fallen below six wins once the program got going in '01, but he hasn't.
 
hawkfan2679 said:
Also, PSU and UM have endured some of the worst years in their recent memory and it's being compared to our best 10 year run EVER.

But whatever works to make the argument...
Click to expand...

By the way, I also like the way you make it sound like having the best 10 year run ever is a bad thing for Iowa or KF as a coach.
 
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