KOK rumor

[HawkeyeShane]

Whether he stays or goes KOK deserves some credit for 2 B10 championships and some very big victories. All this negative talk is nonsense.

You can't say that on a message board! Especially THIS one!

 

[JakeTheDog]

I'm in the camp that believes KF sets the philosophy, but that KOK operates poorly within the parameters he is given. --KnightHawk9

This is exactly right, but very few people seem willing or able to make the differentiation. You can have a conservative offense and still be effective and unpredictable within those parameters. Bo Schembechler and Tom Osbourne had offenses that seemed to do just fine without winging the ball all over the field.

If there is a problem with Iowa's offense, it stems from the play calling, not necessarily the conservative nature-- whether the fault for that lies with KOK or KF is another story.

 

[hoffahawk]

If there is a coaching change won't be much philosophy change ImO

I don't have a problem with philosophy, all I think most fans want is a little imagination in the play calling. You can run a pro set O and throw in tweaks to keep D's off balance. Like the screen for a TD vs Okie for example.

 

[RyeHawk]

I have been hearing it is for the wr coaching job

 

[AcctHawk99]

My feelings if KOK leaves:
1. Nothing changes on offense and then it doesn't matter whether he was here or not because it's the same story so no loss if he goes since it will be the same thing, new face.
2. Improvements happen and then it could be tied to either KOK being the problem, or the new OC sticking up for a different approach than has been used for 13 years.

Those are basically the only 2 options because the offense has been pretty mediocre for awhile, outside of hitting the jackpot on Shonn Greene, so the odds of the offense regressing with a new OC are much lower than the offense improving with a new OC. Whatever happens, I think it's hard to argue the offense would get worse with KOK leaving as opposed to getting better if he does.

 

[PCHawk]

Or waaaay too many sequences of 1st and 10, 2nd and 8, 3rd and 5 and then it is punt the football or the drive stalls. If Iowa did not get good chunks of yardage on 1st or 2nd down you cringed because you knew what was coming. It was just no wiggle room or margin of error with this offense.

And how many times do we see this sequence: 1st and 10: Incomplete Pass2nd and 10: Hand off, 2 yard gain3rd and 8: Pass for 5 yards (or sack) and punt

this is funny. every time there is an incomplete pass on 1st down you can pretty much count on a short run on 2nd and a short pass on 3rd to give us 4th and 1. its like clock work

 

[PCHawk]

I'm in the camp that believes KF sets the philosophy, but that KOK operates poorly within the parameters he is given. My guess at the parameters KF gives KOK:1) Pro-style2) Run-first offense3) Use the run to set up play action4) Keep it conservative (not too many trick plays, plays that might result in negative yardage, etc)But just because those parameters won't change with a new OC, that doesn't mean someone else can't do a better job within the same parameters. Here's some things that KOK is directly responsible for that can be improved:1) Getting play calls in quicker2) Better clock management (you can argue that this is KF's weakness, but a good OC knows when a time-out should be called and calls it)3) Preparing the QB to deal with pressure/blitzes4) Finding plays work and continuing to use them; then at the right moment, using them to set up a fake/counter/variationI, for one, would like to see a new OC. Maybe nothing will change. Maybe everything will. I feel like there's more potential to get better than to get worse.

good post

 

[Cover3]

How much you want to bet that if KOK does leave the next OC will run pretty much the exact same offense and we will have pretty much the exact same offensive philosophy?

Why do people think that if KOK goes all the sudden we are going such a change in our offense?

I'm with you to a degree. There will certainly be a strong resemblance between the 'old' and 'new' offensive regimes, but you might see some new formations, dynamics, and such.

Sitting on the ball at the end of the half will not change. That is game management (head coach's decision), not playcalling or play design.

 

[PCHawk]

Lack of ability to recruit talent to Iowa City. Iowa just doesn't have any sizzle .... its not sexy. They can only do so much with the talent that they have. I believe that was what Kirk's explanation was.

The only flaw with that argument is that it doesn't really explain why we pretty typically have a Top-15 (sometimes better) defense. Unless the staff is doing a better job of recruiting talent to that side of the ball, and/or developing it.

the reason we have a high ranked defense every year is because we have a "kill the clock" game plan. its kind of like saying Todd lickliter had a good defense because how many points he allowed per game. its hard to score a lot of points when your opponent holds the ball till the end of the shot clock every possession. its equally hard to score a lot of points when your opponent gives you 5 yard passes all the way down the field and waits to snap the ball till the play clock is under 5. it has nothing to do with how good our players are on offense and defense. it has nothing to do with how good or bad our OC and DC are. Kirk has a plan that makes our offensive stats look bad and our defensive stats look good, and because of this KOK took the heat while Norm took the credit. although I do think Norm deserves a little more credit then KOK

 

[Cover3]

I'm in the camp that believes KF sets the philosophy, but that KOK operates poorly within the parameters he is given.

My guess at the parameters KF gives KOK:
1) Pro-style
2) Run-first offense
3) Use the run to set up play action
4) Keep it conservative (not too many trick plays, plays that might result in negative yardage, etc)

But just because those parameters won't change with a new OC, that doesn't mean someone else can't do a better job within the same parameters. Here's some things that KOK is directly responsible for that can be improved:

1) Getting play calls in quicker
2) Better clock management (you can argue that this is KF's weakness, but a good OC knows when a time-out should be called and calls it)
3) Preparing the QB to deal with pressure/blitzes
4) Finding plays work and continuing to use them; then at the right moment, using them to set up a fake/counter/variation

I, for one, would like to see a new OC. Maybe nothing will change. Maybe everything will. I feel like there's more potential to get better than to get worse.

Agreed here. In too many games it feels like we're pounding our heads against the wall with the same sequence. I've always felt like KOK offenses had too strict of playcalling balance.

I think of a truly balanced offense as one that merely has the CAPABILITY to run and pass, not one that always does both. The 2005 team with Tate and Albert Young comes to mind as one that could do both. Yet, in our 5 losses that year, I'm sure the O struggled at times in at least one dimension. In how many of those games did we end up just 'airing it out' if we couldn't run, or just doing the ground 'n' pound if Tate was off? I might look that up. Meantime, it will suffice to say that I don't remember Shonn Greene and Jewel ever combining for more than 40 carries in a game in 2008 with the dicey QB situation, or a QB throwing it more than 40 times on a day where the Hawks couldn't run it (has happened many times against OSU and the like).

 

[spudhawk]

Lack of ability to recruit talent to Iowa City. Iowa just doesn't have any sizzle .... its not sexy. They can only do so much with the talent that they have. I believe that was what Kirk's explanation was.

The only flaw with that argument is that it doesn't really explain why we pretty typically have a Top-15 (sometimes better) defense. Unless the staff is doing a better job of recruiting talent to that side of the ball, and/or developing it.

the reason we have a high ranked defense every year is because we have a "kill the clock" game plan. its kind of like saying Todd lickliter had a good defense because how many points he allowed per game. its hard to score a lot of points when your opponent holds the ball till the end of the shot clock every possession. its equally hard to score a lot of points when your opponent gives you 5 yard passes all the way down the field and waits to snap the ball till the play clock is under 5. it has nothing to do with how good our players are on offense and defense. it has nothing to do with how good or bad our OC and DC are. Kirk has a plan that makes our offensive stats look bad and our defensive stats look good, and because of this KOK took the heat while Norm took the credit. although I do think Norm deserves a little more credit then KOK

This is only partially true. Iowa would prefer abslightly run heavy offense, but if you look at the offense over the last three years they are a pass first team through three quarters against solid competition. Ideally they will have a lead and run a lot in the fourth quarter.

 

[MoseSchrute]

True PCHawk, and KOK needs to be better at playcalling in the large amount of time that he has!

 

[KnightHawk9]

These match my thoughts pretty closely.

I'm glad to hear that. You know your stuff.

 

[PCHawk]

How much you want to bet that if KOK does leave the next OC will run pretty much the exact same offense and we will have pretty much the exact same offensive philosophy? Why do people think that if KOK goes all the sudden we are going such a change in our offense?

I'm with you to a degree. There will certainly be a strong resemblance between the 'old' and 'new' offensive regimes, but you might see some new formations, dynamics, and such.Sitting on the ball at the end of the half will not change. That is game management (head coach's decision), not playcalling or play design.

something I just thought off.... I've always assumed the reason we don't try to score at the end of the half or the end of the game was because of Kirk being conservative. Is it possible the reason is because he knows KOK can't handle a 2 minute drill? We know he can barely get a play in before the play clock runs out so it makes sense that he can't think fast enough to run a 2 minute drill. If we got an OC that was good at it, how long would it be before he talked Kirk in to trusting him to run it? It's possible that a new OC could win that battle eventually.

 

[rjbaustian]

Have any of you noticed that the OP hasn't commented since his opening statement? Hummmmmm weird huh

 

[PCHawk]

Have any of you noticed that the OP hasn't commented since his opening statement? Hummmmmm weird huh

maybe the loser works for a living or something stupid like that

 

[Billso]

I'm in the camp that believes KF sets the philosophy, but that KOK operates poorly within the parameters he is given.

My guess at the parameters KF gives KOK:
1) Pro-style
2) Run-first offense
3) Use the run to set up play action
4) Keep it conservative (not too many trick plays, plays that might result in negative yardage, etc)

But just because those parameters won't change with a new OC, that doesn't mean someone else can't do a better job within the same parameters. Here's some things that KOK is directly responsible for that can be improved:

1) Getting play calls in quicker
2) Better clock management (you can argue that this is KF's weakness, but a good OC knows when a time-out should be called and calls it)
3) Preparing the QB to deal with pressure/blitzes
4) Finding plays work and continuing to use them; then at the right moment, using them to set up a fake/counter/variation

I, for one, would like to see a new OC. Maybe nothing will change. Maybe everything will. I feel like there's more potential to get better than to get worse.

These match my thoughts pretty closely. I think KOK is a great teacher from people I have talked to that attended camps or have been associated with the program. I am a little bit ambivalent in that I am also a Dolphins fan and think that the key to their success is going to rest on quarterback play going forward assuming they will draft a QB in the first round.

I would like to see a new OC because I feel that KOK is a Sunday through Friday coach. He prepares his players well and does a decent job of preparing them for the game. His in-game play-calling can often be lacking and I am always surprised that Iowa doesn't attack weaknesses in opposing defenses like teams in the previous weeks have. I also feel Iowa's passing game is a little bit antiquated outside of the play action game which has always been a strength since he an Ferentz arrived.

I do think a new OC can make Iowa's offense more explosive and consistent. My complaints with O'Keefe are constantly related to play-calling, timing and game-plan. Iowa is not the only team that runs a pro-style offensive attack. Wisconsin, Stanford, USC, and Georgia are teams that run similar concepts and formations and they have scored many more points per game in recent seasons (I understand that those teams have elite talent, but Iowa has sent many players from the offensive side of the ball into the NFL over the last several seasons and will send at least three this season).

Imo Ferentz's staff is comprised of too many teachers and needs a tactician. The timing of this shouldn't effect who Iowa can hire as they will competitive in pay and Iowa's stability has to be attractive to any coaching candidate.

That is a terrific pair of posts right there. Calm, rational, and fair to a guy (Ken) who is genuinely well-regarded by his peers.

 

[rjbaustian]

Or maybe the loser just likes to stir up sh!t.....

 

[HawkeyeMcNutt]

Interesting..

 

[AHawk1]

He's gone DMR