Kirk's career record vs ISU, NW and Indiana
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albertyoungisgood
Well-Known Member
of course he's elite, haven't you seen how rare it is for us to get blown out? the true measure of eliteness is not getting blown out right? well, we don't get blown out much anymore, like we did in the 70s. Not like the 70s+we lose close=ELITE!
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
We had four top 10 finishes between 2002 and 2010. Honestly, I don't know how much better we can get than that. I wish we were top 10 every year but do not know if that is realistic. Four top 10 finishes in an eight year period is pretty good.
Who said anything about being a fan of those teams? Put your reading comprehension hat on.
SpecialKHawk
Well-Known Member
I'm not certain we attack these teams with what they cannot handle. An all out straight-ahead running attack lead by the most massive and physical o-line you can put out there.
I'm not 100% sold on Wisconsin's 'greatness' but they have definitely laid the blue-print how to beat these lessor teams, in fact blow them out ->
Massive, physical o-line and run the ball straight at them from the start. Typically these programs lack depth, size, skill in the interior positions and wear down or simply give up when you jam the ball down their throats consistenly.
KF likes balance so we mix the pass-in routinely. The problem is when we throw an incompletion or drop a pass. This often leads to good drives stalling because we then throw again. Then the punt team comes in.
I think the zone-blocking scheme we run has some issues at times because it's predicated on moving laterally and having the RB look for a cut-back lane. I'm not certain this always attacks the weak aspect in the d-line of the lessor opponent. KF often plays smaller, more athletic lineman -> I'm not sure we get the consistent domination that we need to over-power these teams and break their will.
I think our fan-base worries too much about scheme, being tricky and how many guys are in the box and less about are we putting out the biggest, nastiest o-lineman and going straight at the opponent (especially a lessor opponent)?
I'm not 100% sold on Wisconsin's 'greatness' but they have definitely laid the blue-print how to beat these lessor teams, in fact blow them out ->
Massive, physical o-line and run the ball straight at them from the start. Typically these programs lack depth, size, skill in the interior positions and wear down or simply give up when you jam the ball down their throats consistenly.
KF likes balance so we mix the pass-in routinely. The problem is when we throw an incompletion or drop a pass. This often leads to good drives stalling because we then throw again. Then the punt team comes in.
I think the zone-blocking scheme we run has some issues at times because it's predicated on moving laterally and having the RB look for a cut-back lane. I'm not certain this always attacks the weak aspect in the d-line of the lessor opponent. KF often plays smaller, more athletic lineman -> I'm not sure we get the consistent domination that we need to over-power these teams and break their will.
I think our fan-base worries too much about scheme, being tricky and how many guys are in the box and less about are we putting out the biggest, nastiest o-lineman and going straight at the opponent (especially a lessor opponent)?
And only one of those 4 has been since 2004. Since 2004 we have finished unranked 4/6 times and look to add another to the list this year. Explain how that's elite? Maybe early last decade he was elite, but that was due to a good 3 year run. Compare that to Bielema who has finished ranked 4/5 and probably will again this season.
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HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
Come on now, all of our pride's hurting today but we have had more success than all those programs under Kirk. I can recall beating Florida, LSU, GT, South Carolina, etc. We've had a good run....
SpecialKHawk
Well-Known Member
Before we celebrate Wisky too much let's keep in mind they have a penchant for not scheduling anyone of substance in the non-con....
They have also dropped 2 of their last 3 bowl appearences including the debacle to TCU where they greatly out-manned on the offensive side of the ball.
I do like how they attack the lessor teams though.... it really works.
They have also dropped 2 of their last 3 bowl appearences including the debacle to TCU where they greatly out-manned on the offensive side of the ball.
I do like how they attack the lessor teams though.... it really works.
I've never said anything about having less success than those programs listed. My point was, KF has a terrible record against mediocre to poor teams. Today wasn't a fluke, but rather a continuation of his poor coaching. Elite progams don't lose annually to these teams. Upsets happen and are understandable, but this is the result of playing to the opponents level.
Did I say you said anything about being a fan? Put your reading comprehension hat on.
A stupid thread, deserves a stupid response.
The TCU team was as good or better than any team Ferentz has ever coached. I don't understand the constant criticism of that squad.
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
Yeah, being elite in this day and age is very very tough. Ask Georgia, FSU has had some tough years although this year it appears they may be back, Notre Dame, Miami, Michigan, etc. It is very very hard to be elite year in and year out. I don't know their are a lot of other coaches that make us elite or do a better job than KF. Bielema has done a very good job but I dont think they have four top 10 finishes in the last 8 years? Not sure, too late to look it up. It's a competitive field, Kirk is my man.
SpecialKHawk
Well-Known Member
I think we can all agree we have problems with lessor opponents...
Again part of this is our inability to take them apart from the start and not let up. The worst thing you can do against these opponents is let them think they are in the game. The momentum and pressure shifts from them to us...
Today as an example we had an opportuntity to be up 14-0,,, instead we went to the locker-room 10-10. If we had gotten to 14-0 and punched one more in to get up 21-0 how much doubt would have crept in? I was in the stadium,,, the crowd was completely taken out when it was 7-0 and we were on the move looking like it was going to be 14-0. What happened on that drive? Dropped first down pass by the TE on a key third and five. We bounce in a FG and kick the ball out of bounds so they get first and ten on the 40. Then they punt back flipping the field position and I believe we fumbled on our own 10. The game turns-around.
KF has to really instill and work on his game plans to put lessor teams away early and often.
We saw what happened last year to both ISU & MSU when this happened. They were done. When we left others hanging around we lost.
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HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
Yes, we do often play to an opponents level, but remember that also works the other way as well. We usually play the very good teams close as well.
"Yes, I'd rather be a fan of any of those other three teams than make it to a good bowl...and usually win"
Let's not be a complete tool here. You are implying the point is to compare these programs as if the choice is to be a fan of one of these three or Iowa, completely taking the original post out of context. The point is to show KF's sorry record vs. poor teams. Being fans of these teams is nothing to do with the topic. Sorry if your feelings are hurt that Kirk has been clowned time and time again by inferior opponents. You must be a Cubs fan. Not many others can appreciate mediocrity to such a degree.
hawkfan340
Well-Known Member
Smoot, you haven't been drinking your kool-aid, have you?
We play the good teams well because we have the talent to do so. As pointed out in a previous thread, Iowa has 9 rookies on NFL rosters. No reason we shouldn't be competitive with top teams. No excuse to lose to the bad ones and blow 4th quarter leads routinely. KF is a terrible gameday manager. Who runs the clock out tied with 1:17 and 2 timeouts?
KF gives me more appreciation for Tom Brands. That guy hates losing and makes it clear to all. He actually wants his team to destroy lesser teams. You can see the fire in him that KF lacks.
hawkfan340
Well-Known Member
Actuallly have to disagree here. His conservatism keeps us in games we should lose too. And we all know that's what matters; keeping it close.
Oh, wait...
