deanvogs
Well-Known Member
The whole KF doesn't play the best player stuff is complete BS. They are human, they have made mistakes over the years. Yet they are trying to win, and play the players they feel give them the best chance to win.
Kirk Ferentz Downplays Stanley Being Listed No. 1 in New 2-Deep
- Thread starter RobHowe
- Start date
The whole KF doesn't play the best player stuff is complete BS. They are human, they have made mistakes over the years. Yet they are trying to win, and play the players they feel give them the best chance to win.
To be fair, I don't think anyone argues he doesn't play the players he thinks are the best. Some argue that he lets the strength of his relationships with certain players cloud his judgement (a very human thing to do), whereas others argue that he misjudges the extent to which certain characteristics contribute to winning.
I am sure he makes plenty of personnel mistakes, those decisions can be very difficult. Does he make more than his coaching peers? It is hard to say since I don't follow other teams with the same attention as the Hawks. I am always struck by the certainty with which some posters claim KF has made obvious errors. So Gair plays pretty well with Taylor injured down the stretch. However, Taylor played very well the year before, and he is the younger, more athletic player. Gair was a great Hawk, but his pro day numbers spoke loudly of his limitations. Yet many are absolutely certain that the coaches made a mistake with that one.
Do you really know that early season Rugamba was better than early season, 5th year senior Mabin? Don't you think that those first 6 or so games playing in nickel/dime packages got Rugamba prepared to be able to step in and start? How would it have affected his development to step in right away and get roasted?
Do you really know how effectively a DT is carrying out his assignment? Are you going to notice if he is letting OL get clean to the LBs or not?
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
I agree with this, with one exception.....Quarterback. I think KF is so conservative, that he doesn't play the BEST quarterback often times, but the one that he is comfortable with from a conservative standpoint. He values mistake free over playmaking upside....in other words, he tries to mitigate his risk rather than allowing a playmaker to make plays, knowing mistakes will come.
That's why it was McCann over Banks, JC over Stanzi, Rudock over both Sokol and CJ (and I'd argue Sokol was actually the best option in 2013). I've never had a problem with his decisions anywhere else on the roster, except QB.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Everything you said is fair, at least I think it is. I am talking about others who make it sound like KF is playing some crappy player over a NFL HOF. Lots of times these things just aren't know til they are known. For Instance as KF says Hartlieb was 3rd string and nobody thought we was gonna be the guy, until he was the guy.
Unknownbadger
Well-Known Member
For what it is worth, Stanley is the home-body that got away from Wisconsin, IMO. The hiring of Chryst was too late to do anything to change his mind. Not that it would have anyway.
Joshbrown
Well-Known Member
I agree about the QB position. KF is more comfortable with a risk-avoider versus a risk-taker. The only reason Stanzi and CJB were given their chances was because Kirk felt pressure. When there is no pressure on Kirk, that is when he is at his worst. Right now Kirk feels pressure only because he wants his son to take over and therefore must win at a certain level to insure that happens.
Last edited:
Yeah KOK and KF gave JC a really really long rope before giving Stanzi his shot. It wasn't that Stanzi was even all that ready to go right away. JC played himself off the field more so than getting beaten out. But yeah there was pressure all over the place publicly and through the media for him to make that move he didn't have a choice. JC was throwing 90mph fast balls three feet over the head of the RB in the flat. It was terrible. The CJB pressure I think was mostly from his folks pretty much putting it out there that CJ wasn't going to stick around to 'compete' and sit behind JR another year. KF did a risk assessment that losing CJ who had 2 more yrs to play as opposed to JR with 1 left knowing what each was capable of (for the most part hard to know CJ was capable of leading them to 12-0) was a bit of a no brainer. I'm sure the offensive coaching staff was all on the same page there hence the January depth chart reveal and history being what it is..
Joshbrown
Well-Known Member
CJB proved early in 2014 he was the better QB. Rewatch those games.
JC looked bad for most of 2007. A good coach would've let someone else get a few series as 2007 rolled along. Speaking of which Bearkiller went on an epic 7(?) game losing streak and took every snap. Again, that's bad coaching. You sit someone in that kind of slump, to both send a message and see if you have someone better sitting on the bench.
guffus
Well-Known Member
I would like to go on record that I knew it was going to be Hartlieb before the season started. I watched all 3 QB's in the spring game in 87 and it was clear to me he was the best and most accurate thrower. The offense just flowed better when he was in the game.
The only thing that slowed down Hartlieb winning the job in 87 is he made a costly mistake in the opening game against Tennesee that cost Iowa the game. Otherwise he would have been the clear starter by game 2 of the 87 season.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
One of the most painful to watch games of Hawkeye modern history.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
It depends on the definition of "BEST". There are coaches who are so system oriented they don't have game feel. That may be KF.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
Which is why I probably should have thrown down a ton of $$ on Iowa's over when I was in Vegas.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
My bad
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
LTG
Do you even remember what happened with the QB situation in 2007? Didn't think so...
seepig
Well-Known Member
Then you were a perfect coach! Congratulations! And NO coach ever played a kid because of politics either. You must have coached in La La Land and I'm sure your team's mascot was the unicorn.
IAHAWK1982
Well-Known Member
I never said I was a perfect coach. Thanks for reaffirming that you believe that you have all the answers and your opinion is the only one that is correct. Sorry for questioning your expertise.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
Brad Banks/Kyle McCann
JC/Stanzi
JR/CJ
Those are the noticeable positions. Those were noticeable to about 90 percent of the people watching the game.
It's not complete BS. KF has his own checklist which may not include Who is the Best and Who gives us the best chance in this particular game.
I do believe that he misguidedly thinks he is doing greater good by establishing a protocol for his players such as not talking to other teams once they commit and so on. Staying with a QB like McCann who will make fewer mistakes and run a grind it out no risk offense speaks loudly. Some of the hits KM took that year were incredible and even more so that he hung onto the ball. How many times did you ever see BB get wiped?
Therein is the rub. He is a throwback to a time long gone. KF is not irrelevant. When KFims works it is thing of beauty. When it doesn't work (Florida last year included), it is among the NCAA's ugliest. There is little middle ground with KF. Winning with nearly complete perfection and dominance is fun to watch. Losing in a borish fashion is not fun to watch. He is Alabama without Alabama players. Heck even Alabama wanted to learn from him.
Watch this video at the 2:37 mark. This is why KM was playing. Not because he was better:
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
You point out 3 over his 18 year. If you just say he decides each position once a year (which it is more than that) then he's made 396 position decisions (22 x 18 years). You are pointing out 3 you disagree with. Even if you could find 20 to 40 you disagreed with, you would still be agreeing with the Captain 90%+ of the time.
You prove my point. KF absolutely plays those he thinks gives Iowa the best chance to win. You just don't agree with his criteria, that's fair. I am talking about those who flat out say KF is playing players he doesn't actually think gives Iowa the best shot at winning. That is Complete BS.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
I think I understand your point...I think. Another twist to this is that Iowa really has lacked talent at some positions. Some of that lacking talent is so non Big Ten caliber that it does give the appearance that he must be playing players he doesn't think are the best.
I think we can agree that KF is a bit.....odd. Odd doesn't mean not successful.
About the KM hit, I do think that sums up a lot. Banks fumble the next year must really bug him to death.
I didn't point out only 3 because there aren't any more. They aren't typically as recognizable as they don't carry or throw da ball. Though there are some RB ? marks I have. As big of a fan I am of HF, I still wanted him to play Vlasic over long the Rosey year and I'll never understand TBanks and TDwight not getting more touches.
I"m not sure why I remember the KM hit, but it drove me nuts then...and nuttier now. Besides I have therapy at 1:30.
SpiderRico
Well-Known Member
In 18 years of KF at Iowa, there have been 7 legit opportunities at picking the best QB (there wasn't a true "selection" to be made in 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, or 2016...and 1999 and 2000 don't matter because the whole team sucked). So you're down to 7 true opportunities....Banks or McCann in 2001, Tate or Manson in 2004, JC or Stanzi in 2007, JC or Stanzi in 2008, JR, CJ or Sokol in 2013, JR or CJ in 2014, JR or CJ in 2015. In my humble opinion, he made the wrong call in 2001, the right call in 2004, the right call in 2007, the wrong call initially in 2008 (until KOK stepped in), the wrong call in 2013 and 2014, and the right call in 2015. So in 7 opportunities, KF picked right 3 times and wrong 4 times. That's not a very good % in my book. Is he perfect? Nope, don't expect him to be. But I would hope that in the most important position on the field, that he'd be right more often than not.....
