Keith Murphy's interview with Chris Doyle

MikeyLikesIowa

MikeyLikesIowa

Well-Known Member
Definitely going to listen to this when I get home. Thanks for posting.

Just so everyone's on the same page...

This subject was one that caused this board to explode back in 2020 and I don't want to see that again. I'm leaving this one on the football board for everyone to see, but it needs to stay civil. If you would like to discuss the social, racial, or other aspects of Doyle's response or the topic in general, show respect to the rules and start a thread in OT Open please. You guys have all been great about using the OT boards when appropriate and I hope that continues.
 
Anyone know what happened with Dochterman's piece that got axed?

New York Times get nervous about some push back from U of I counsel, potential violations of a separation agreement, etc?

No idea, but it must have been something....
 
I thought it was an incredible interview. If you’ve been a fan of the Hawks for years you should check it out. I had mixed opinions about what probably happened with him but I don’t anymore. Looks to me like he’s innocent of the allegations and we lost a great strength coach.
 
The most unfortunate thing to me about the whole situation is how his long time friendship w/ Kirk was destroyed. Obviously I do not know the ins and outs of exactly what happened so clearly speculating here because chris did not say this but i imagine he feels as though Kirk did not fight for him and that greatly offended him. If you know you're innocent i can see how that would absolutely cut to the core.
 
I assume he's innocent of racism and guilty as hell on being an asshole. I haven't listened yet but I'm definitely going to.
 
I found the interview repetitive and boring. It felt like the interviewer kept asking the same question over and over 5 different ways.

With that said, it was clear Doyle denied strongly that he ever used racist language as strength coach. On the other hand, Doyle admitted he has had time for self-reflection and there is at least a small level of remorse from Doyle about the way he treated people as a demanding coach.

Couple strange things he said, Doyle said that he has not talked to Kirk Ferentz since June 2020. Also Doyle said he does not watch any Iowa football games.
 
PCHawk said:
I assume he's innocent of racism and guilty as hell on being an asshole. I haven't listened yet but I'm definitely going to.
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I think there can be some racism without being overt and that’s likely what happened. It’s pretty apparent that black players didn’t like the way they were treated and the attrition was a lot more with black players. I doubt it was intentional racism, but what I didn’t think was genuine was that he totally refused to acknowledge that part or even the possibility of it. To Doyle it seems like he thinks since he never said the n-word it means he never brought race into the equation. That’s a pretty weak argument.

To me it looks like he’s guilty of being a gigantic overreacting asshole (which he admits to) who was way more of an asshole to black players (which he refuses to even address). Then he plays the “I even have a black friend” card with Braithwaite over and over.
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
Anyone know what happened with Dochterman's piece that got axed?

New York Times get nervous about some push back from U of I counsel, potential violations of a separation agreement, etc?

No idea, but it must have been something....
Click to expand...
As I understand it, he had done his research, interviews, wrote the story and it didn't make it past the editorial process.
 
Fryowa said:
I think there can be some racism without being overt and that’s likely what happened. It’s pretty apparent that black players didn’t like the way they were treated and the attrition was a lot more with black players. I doubt it was intentional racism, but what I didn’t think was genuine was that he totally refused to acknowledge that part or even the possibility of it. To Doyle it seems like he thinks since he never said the n-word it means he never brought race into the equation. That’s a pretty weak argument.

To me it looks like he’s guilty of being a gigantic overreacting asshole (which he admits to) who was way more of an asshole to black players (which he refuses to even address). Then he plays the “I even have a black friend” card with Braithwaite over and over.
Click to expand...

we tend to look for binary reactions. something is said or done and two people view the same thing differently. happens all the time. any one here married? you get it
 
SwirlinLingerie said:
Anyone know what happened with Dochterman's piece that got axed?

New York Times get nervous about some push back from U of I counsel, potential violations of a separation agreement, etc?

No idea, but it must have been something....
Click to expand...
All I know is what everyone else does. And man Scott had to be so pissed. He had to have put a lot of time into that. I'm surprised that he didn't just hand it off to someone like Rob to take as his own. That way it's out there. Let Rob put his own spin on it or whatever. But instead it's just totally shelved like a catch and kill story of Trumps with the tabloids.

I got to listen to this Pod last night and it was great of Murphy to be able to land it. He's a pro's pro and asked the pertinent questions. It went about how you'd think it would. None of it really surprised me up until they talked about how he's had no communication with KF since nor is he paying attention to Iowa's games.

I look forward to KF being asked about this and I hope the media presses him on it with follow ups. I'm sure KF will do his normal thing and blow it off with his coach speak. I'd love to know why KF hasn't reached out to him and what's that all about. But we'll probably never get that. I'm not sure people realize just how close they were. Iowa isn't Iowa without having had Doyle. Those two were intertwined at the hip. The program was as much Doyles as anyone elses.

It sucks we'll probably never get the whole honest truth on it all. It's somewhere in the middle of what's all been put out there on both sides. And I'm just bummed at how KF handled it. Granted the school probably all but gagged him and forced some of his decisions. Maybe KF has some shame in how he was made to throw Doyle under the bus. Cause it sure looks that way. And then keeping BF on just made it look worse.
 
NCHawker said:
we tend to look for binary reactions. something is said or done and two people view the same thing differently. happens all the time. any one here married? you get it
Click to expand...
I get it. My personal feeling is that he probably had some racial bias that wasn’t explicitly intentional.

I would’ve felt a lot better about the interview if he could’ve admitted that. That’s something that you can work on personally and get better at and I think that would help those wounds heal on both sides.

I loved how he went in depth about his shortcomings regarding how much of a hardcore dickhead he was and how reflecting on it now in hindsight, he would change how he deals with players on an individual level. Everyone responds differently, and it sounds like he admits he didn’t think that way at the time and he would act differently now instead of taking the approach that if you don’t like the way we do it, you’re not the “Iowa type.” I think that’s a very reflective viewpoint and shows a lot of guts to admit that at least in that way, he was failing some players.

I just wish he’d have at least admitted that the way he handled himself could’ve been perceived as harder on the black athletes, even if it wasn’t his intent. I also think Doyle was the scapegoat. It sounds like Brian was guilty of the same things and he got to keep doing his job for 3 more years, and it would’ve been indefinitely if he had been good at it.
 
Fryowa said:
I get it. My personal feeling is that he probably had some racial bias that wasn’t explicitly intentional.

I would’ve felt a lot better about the interview if he could’ve admitted that. That’s something that you can work on personally and get better at and I think that would help those wounds heal on both sides.

I loved how he went in depth about his shortcomings regarding how much of a hardcore dickhead he was and how reflecting on it now in hindsight, he would change how he deals with players on an individual level. Everyone responds differently, and it sounds like he admits he didn’t think that way at the time and he would act differently now instead of taking the approach that if you don’t like the way we do it, you’re not the “Iowa type.” I think that’s a very reflective viewpoint and shows a lot of guts to admit that at least in that way, he was failing some players.

I just wish he’d have at least admitted that the way he handled himself could’ve been perceived as harder on the black athletes, even if it wasn’t his intent. I also think Doyle was the scapegoat. It sounds like Brian was guilty of the same things and he got to keep doing his job for 3 more years, and it would’ve been indefinitely if he had been good at it.
Click to expand...

This sounds like another case study in the negative impact of power without checks and balances. He felt emboldened to behave how he wanted, and it took something like this to ever question his approach. With more accountability forced upon him along the way, he could have figured that out at Iowa, and he would still be helping us win games.
 
CP87 said:
This sounds like another case study in the negative impact of power without checks and balances. He felt emboldened to behave how he wanted, and it took something like this to ever question his approach. With more accountability forced upon him along the way, he could have figured that out at Iowa, and he would still be helping us win games.
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KF had the best guy in the business and just let him cook how he wanted. Which I get to a point but like you said, there needs to be some oversight. Ferentz has 16 hour days full of various things to worry about, as long as Doyle kept pumping out Sherffs and Gallerys and Wirffses I don’t think he felt the need to mess with anything. There should probably have been some more mid-level management that can afford to spend the time to do it which hopefully they have now. I have no idea.
 
CP87 said:
This sounds like another case study in the negative impact of power without checks and balances. He felt emboldened to behave how he wanted, and it took something like this to ever question his approach. With more accountability forced upon him along the way, he could have figured that out at Iowa, and he would still be helping us win games.
Click to expand...
For Iowa leading up to 2020, the ends blindly justified the means, and that’s not very often the best philosophy to take with any business or organization.
 
guffus said:
Couple strange things he said, Doyle said that he has not talked to Kirk Ferentz since June 2020. Also Doyle said he does not watch any Iowa football games.
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I don't think it's strange. What would there be to say, really?

"Sorry man, we had to fire you because someone needed to get fired and there was no way I was going to let it be my kid?"

I'm not surprised at all that they haven't spoken; I expected to hear that answer when the interviewer asked that question.

As far as watching Iowa football, how many people get fired from their day job at a car dealership and check in once a week to see how sales are doing? He basically got told (right or wrong) to pack up his shit on the spot, your key no longer works, and if you step foot on U of I property we're going to have the cops trespass you. Why in god's name would he watch Iowa football? Anyone on the team or staff he wants to keep in touch with he has their cell number. It would be sadistic self-torture to watch Iowa games on TV at that point.
 
Fryowa said:
I get it. My personal feeling is that he probably had some racial bias that wasn’t explicitly intentional.

I would’ve felt a lot better about the interview if he could’ve admitted that. That’s something that you can work on personally and get better at and I think that would help those wounds heal on both sides.

I loved how he went in depth about his shortcomings regarding how much of a hardcore dickhead he was and how reflecting on it now in hindsight, he would change how he deals with players on an individual level. Everyone responds differently, and it sounds like he admits he didn’t think that way at the time and he would act differently now instead of taking the approach that if you don’t like the way we do it, you’re not the “Iowa type.” I think that’s a very reflective viewpoint and shows a lot of guts to admit that at least in that way, he was failing some players.

I just wish he’d have at least admitted that the way he handled himself could’ve been perceived as harder on the black athletes, even if it wasn’t his intent. I also think Doyle was the scapegoat. It sounds like Brian was guilty of the same things and he got to keep doing his job for 3 more years, and it would’ve been indefinitely if he had been good at it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I agree with all that. Realizing some kids need to be handled differently than others is one characteristic of a great coach (or leader, manager, etc.). It doesn't mean they necessarily need special accommodations. But the end goal for both player and coaches is to maximize the athlete's potential. Sometimes it takes problem solving and different approaches to reach peak performance.

It seems like Doyle reflected on that with a little space and time, which is cool. But yeah, to your point, that reflection seems to fall short. Didn't Dolph come right out and say he had some hard conversations with good friends after his King Kong comparison, plus went through some education, and learned about implicit bias?

We are all on our own journeys of self awareness. I would have found the interview more compelling if Doyle would have swallowed hard and described some tough conversations he had with black players since his departure...maybe some incidences where there is great mutual respect, but upon his request, he got some feedback that was tough for him to hear but important nonetheless. Maybe those conversations haven't happened. I'd think those would be important for reflection and growth.
 
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