Just To Be Clear





wundergrape said:
That's fair. And let me clarify - if we finish 4-8 or 5-7 I'm not going to be happy. I feel like this team is on the ascendent. But my faith is not ironclad.
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i also think there are some bright spots on both sides of the ball. but, recent history suggests that the staff isn't doing a good job of a) recruiting and b) developing players. i hope that changes, and if it does things could be very good again. Rudock especially has a bright future, as do some guys like Daniels (if we can ever get a RB to their SR year).
 


Bottomline is this. I want WINS.. I'm a Hawk Fan and ALWAYS will be and not on any Bandwagon and NEVER will be. I would be concerned if fan wasn't frustrated right now with how things have gone these past couple years. I see that frustration as a passionate fan that cares about this Program.

The Bandwagon and fairweather fan talk is gibberish and any fan that says that to other fan is saying that to belittle others.. That is all..
 
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HawkPrdatr40 said:
Bottomline is this. I want WINS.. I'm a Hawk Fan and ALWAYS will be and not on any Bandwagon and NEVER will be. I would be concerned if fan wasn't frustrated right now with how things have gone these past couple years. I see that frustration as a passionate fan that cares about this Program.

The Bandwagon and fairweather fan talk is gibberish and any fan that says that to other fan is saying that to belittle others.. That is all..
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I've already copped to the opinion that the term "bandwagon" was inappropriate. It is. I'll be off the "bandwagon" if we finish 5-7. But I don't think we will. I think we're on the uptick.

It's all in perception. I see very different things in this team than most of you. I see a dynamic quarterback, a stout o-line, strong running backs and depth on the d-line. I can't fathom how that's not going to equal success in the coming seasons. I can't fathom how you're all not pumped.

It's like the basketball team. Would I have liked to have gone to final four the past three seasons? Of course, but I know that the program is pointed upward, so it brings me solace. If we go 15-15 this year, I'll re-evaluate that opinion, just like I will if the football team tanks.

This is just my take. I don't think I'm a better fan than you...I really don't. I just think you're doing a poor job of reading the situation.
 




wundergrape said:
I've already copped to the opinion that the term "bandwagon" was inappropriate. It is. I'll be off the "bandwagon" if we finish 5-7. But I don't think we will. I think we're on the uptick.

It's all in perception. I see very different things in this team than most of you. I see a dynamic quarterback, a stout o-line, strong running backs and depth on the d-line. I can't fathom how that's not going to equal success in the coming seasons. I can't fathom how you're all not pumped.

It's like the basketball team. Would I have liked to have gone to final four the past three seasons? Of course, but I know that the program is pointed upward, so it brings me solace. If we go 15-15 this year, I'll re-evaluate that opinion, just like I will if the football team tanks.

This is just my take. I don't think I'm a better fan than you...I really don't. I just think you're doing a poor job of reading the situation.
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This statement alone basically tells anyone with an IQ about 60 that you are a very confused individual. The football program is literally the EXACT opposite of the basketball program right now.
 
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Makavelihawk said:
This statement alone basically tells anyone with an IQ about 60 that you are a very confused individual.
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About 133 here. I knew exactly what he meant. I wasn't a direct comparison of where the fb and ball teams are currently but rather there are signs if promise in fb this year like there were signs if promise in the ball program a few years ago.

So now you aren't confused anymore. Y'welcome
 


I would need to see massive growth in the secondary and be somewhat reassured we have 3 (if not 4 or 5) new backers to replace the sr's, before i will get an idea on next year.
 


HawkeyeWalker said:
About 133 here. I knew exactly what he meant. I wasn't a direct comparison of where the fb and ball teams are currently but rather there are signs if promise in fb this year like there were signs if promise in the ball program a few years ago.

So now you aren't confused anymore. Y'welcome
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In what way is this program heading upward? 4-8 last year. Going to go 5-7 this year. We are in the mid 50's nationally in recruiting. Remind me how we are on an upswing again. Were you an Iowa fan in the early-mid 2000's? Seriously. It's mind blowing. I feel like I'm on Cyclone Fanatic.

The basketball team has improved by 7 wins/year and recruiting has seen a strong uptick. Again, how is that like the football program? I think you're the one that's confused.
 


Makavelihawk said:
In what way is this program heading upward? 4-8 last year. Going to go 5-7 this year. We are in the mid 50's nationally in recruiting. Remind me how we are on an upswing again. Were you an Iowa fan in the early-mid 2000's? Seriously. It's mind blowing. I feel like I'm on Cyclone Fanatic.
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I was a fan over 2 decades before the 00's. If, in your opinion, you haven't seen fairly significant growth in this years fb team over last year, not sure what to tell ya. Your welcome to your opinion...but its no more valid than the OPs.

I've never been to CF, why would I want to?
 


Makavelihawk said:
This statement alone basically tells anyone with an IQ about 60 that you are a very confused individual. The football program is literally the EXACT opposite of the basketball program right now.
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...says the guy who obviously can't differentiate between opinion and fact.

I think we're getting better as a program. You obviously don't. We'll see who's right.
 


Makavelihawk said:
In what way is this program heading upward? 4-8 last year. Going to go 5-7 this year. We are in the mid 50's nationally in recruiting. Remind me how we are on an upswing again. Were you an Iowa fan in the early-mid 2000's? Seriously. It's mind blowing. I feel like I'm on Cyclone Fanatic.

The basketball team has improved by 7 wins/year and recruiting has seen a strong uptick. Again, how is that like the football program? I think you're the one that's confused.
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How was our recruiting in the era directly preceding the early 2000s? Top-10? Top-20? Top-30?

Be careful when harkening back to early Ferentz-era teams as a contrast to our current state. You might not like what you see.
 


Been a Hawkeye fan all my life. I'll take 8-4 and a Florida bowl game every year. I'll take 7-5 on "rebuilding" years. 6-6 means Iowa lost some games it probably shouldn't have -- historically (since 1980), those games have been Purdue, Northwestern, Indiana, Illinois, and ISU. I expect Iowa to be in the second tier of B1G teams with Wisconsin, Michigan State, and Minnesota. I want to avoid twenty years of irrelevance like what followed the 1950s.

Iowa Rankings under Hayden Fry (1980 - End of career):
1980 NR
1981 18
1982 NR
1983 14
1984 16
1985 10
1986 16
1987 16
1988 NR
1989 NR
1990 18
1991 10
1992 NR
1993 NR
1994 NR
1995 25
1996 18
1997 NR
1998 NR

Iowa Rankings under Kirk Ferentz:
1999 NR
2000 NR
2002 8
2003 8
2004 8
2005 NR
2006 NR
2007 NR
2008 20
2009 7
2010 NR
2011 NR
2012 NR
2013 ??

The question we should be asking ourselves is this:

Fry got two strikes after he established the program, that is, back-to-back years of not being in the Top 25 without being fired. The most years he went in any period without being ranked was 3, which happened only once, followed by a year in the top 25 and then the final straw where he was put out to pasture.

Ferentz has had his two strikes, and BOTH of them have been 3-yr streaks of not being ranked after the season.

Fry consistently got the same level of talent. It is obvious when you look at the string of rankings. It is also pretty obvious that Ferentz does not recruit consistently.

If we generalize to the years of success following a recruiting class through its playing years, Ferentz got lucky and found the diamonds in the rough in two out of 13 recruiting classes. He wins only when he has extreme talent, and he gets that talent only when it has been overlooked by everyone else in the country. He actually fails at "coaching" kids up -- if he coached them up he would have more consistent #18 or #20 years. In the #8 seasons, we were on the cover of SI with Lucky AND Good!

Forest and Hayden were outliers -- They resurrected dead programs. Yeah, the cupboard was bare when KF got here, but it wasn't 20 years removed from a ranked season bare. It was two years removed. Oh, and we forced out the winningest coach in Iowa history after he had three bad recruiting classes that resulted in back-to-back non-ranked years.

Ok. So rankings don't do it for you. We'll do winning percentages at Iowa:
Fry
.613
Ferentz
.575
Iowa Football all-time
.5313
Hawkeye fans keep talking about being realistic. Those are the numbers. Kirk Ferentz is a mildly above-average Iowa coach. That's all without talking salary:

Here's the top coaches in order of salary:
Nick Saban 4 National Titles, 4 Conference Titles
Mack Brown 1 National Title, 2 Conference Titles
Bob Stoops 1 National Title, 8 Conference Titles
Urban Meyer 2 National Titles, 4 Conference Titles
Les Miles 1 National Title, 2 Conference Titles
Kirk Ferentz 0 National Titles, 2 Coference Titles
Charlie Strong 0 National Titles, 0 Conference Titles (At least someone else is worse for the money!)
Steve Spurrier 1 National Title, 7 Conference Titles

As far as buyout goes:
Kirk Ferentz's buyout is $18.5M. The entire Athletic department takes in $97.9M. The B1G network per-member share this year will be $25M.

Who is being unrealistic -- the fans that expect to be top 25 almost every year, or the fans that want to pay the coach the most money of any coach in the country without a single national title who just barely wins above the program's traditional winning percentage?
 


Any journalist worth his salt that covers Iowa football or state finances that says that Iowa paying a coach that much money to not win more is worried that the coach won't answer his question at the next press conference. We pay them. Everybody should be upset about this.
 


Final argument: But who would want to come coach at Iowa. It's hard.

Well TCU, Boise State, Utah, Stanford, Northern Illinois and Texas Tech are harder. Over the last ten years they've performed just as consistently or more than Iowa and pay their coaches substantially less.
 


cincyhawk said:
Final argument: But who would want to come coach at Iowa. It's hard.

Well TCU, Boise State, Utah, Stanford, Northern Illinois and Texas Tech are harder. Over the last ten years they've performed just as consistently or more than Iowa and pay their coaches substantially less.
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Cincy, all good factual info in your posts. The problem with the KF supporters is the fear of fear itself; the great unknown. I, like many others, am tired of clapping my hands to say "great moral victory guys" and "we'll try harder next week" when we lose to ISU, Minny and NW. If Iowa finishes with any record less than 6-6 and we are a below .500 team since 2010. I hope that is a sobering thought for those that need an awakening.
 


cincyhawk said:
Final argument: But who would want to come coach at Iowa. It's hard.

Well TCU, Boise State, Utah, Stanford, Northern Illinois and Texas Tech are harder. Over the last ten years they've performed just as consistently or more than Iowa and pay their coaches substantially less.
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The money/salary issue again...

Very few will argue it wasnt too long, with too large of a buyout...but Unless you have the buyout money... its moot.
 




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