Josh Ogundele in the transfer portal

[Hawkfnntn]

When you look at the number of historic blue blood programs out there cranking out early NBAers like they're going out of style it sure as hell does make it crazy to ask for a Sweet 16.

Below are Iowa's recruiting rankings since Fran took over. Are rankings the end-all, be-all? No. But especially when you look at a decent size sample they're indicative. I didn't include Alford and Lickliter because, well, that's even dumber yet.

You're mad because a team with an average recruiting ranking of 68 over the span of more than a decade doesn't make a Sweet 16??? An average ranking in the B1G of 10 out of 14??? Again...recruiting isn't what it was in '84, man. And Mr Tom didn't just take that class (that he didn't even recruit) and turn 'em into big time ballers. If you're not a huge name team with a history of cranking out elite 8 and better finishes plus a bunch of pros, you aren't cracking the top 35 any time soon unless you get super lucky. Fran has outpaced his recruiting class ranking in almost every year and most times by a long ways.

Get fuckin real with that Sweet 16 expectation.

Do flukes happen every year to get in the S16? Absolutely. But there are a whole lot more programs that never see it than do.

View attachment 8921

We were picked to be 10th or so in BIG pre season by most weren't we? Losing 4 starters Garza and JW being the most prominent. Nobody was predicting that Keegan would turn into what he did. Even as we coasted through the soft non con part of our schedule and beat VA on the road people wanted to know if it was legit. It took a media guy like Katz almost half the yr to get on the Keegan Murray train. It's all uphill for Iowa just about.

My point being the reason for all that trepidation was due to the recruiting rankings. Iowa wasn't expected to replace two NBA guys and 4 starters just that easily with a 10th, 5th and 11th rated classes to do it with. (With guys having been subtracted from)

Fran made lemonade with the lemons he had to cook with. He's shown he's a good coach. Folks that don't see it just won't get it anyway

 

[HaydenHawk56]

When you look at the number of historic blue blood programs out there cranking out early NBAers like they're going out of style it sure as hell does make it crazy to ask for a Sweet 16.

Below are Iowa's recruiting rankings since Fran took over. Are rankings the end-all, be-all? No. But especially when you look at a decent size sample they're indicative. I didn't include Alford and Lickliter because, well, that's even dumber yet.

You're mad because a team with an average recruiting ranking of 68 over the span of more than a decade doesn't make a Sweet 16??? An average ranking in the B1G of 10 out of 14??? Again...recruiting isn't what it was in '84, man. And Mr Tom didn't just take that class (that he didn't even recruit) and turn 'em into big time ballers. If you're not a huge name team with a history of cranking out elite 8 and better finishes plus a bunch of pros, you aren't cracking the top 35 any time soon unless you get super lucky. Fran has outpaced his recruiting class ranking in almost every year and most times by a long ways.

Get fuckin real with that Sweet 16 expectation.

Do flukes happen every year to get in the S16? Absolutely. But there are a whole lot more programs that never see it than do.

View attachment 8921

3 things

1. That is Fran's job to get those rankings up. However he may do it. And he has to strike while the iron is hot while they are here.
2. The freaking clowns were able to do it in one year. I hate that. Man do I hate seeing that and our near quarter of a century drought.
3. A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and awhile. We need to find a nut.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

We were picked to be 10th or so in BIG pre season by most weren't we? Losing 4 starters Garza and JW being the most prominent. Nobody was predicting that Keegan would turn into what he did. Even as we coasted through the soft non con part of our schedule and beat VA on the road people wanted to know if it was legit. It took a media guy like Katz almost half the yr to get on the Keegan Murray train. It's all uphill for Iowa just about.

My point being the reason for all that trepidation was due to the recruiting rankings. Iowa wasn't expected to replace two NBA guys and 4 starters just that easily with a 10th, 5th and 11th rated classes to do it with. (With guys having been subtracted from)

Fran made lemonade with the lemons he had to cook with. He's shown he's a good coach. Folks that don't see it just won't get it anyway

Oh I agree, he succeeded on the year. I take nothing away from him there. People (including me) felt it would be a challenge to get to the Big Dance if at all. He succeeded there.

Probably virtually no one, at least at the beginning of the year, would have predicted they would win the BTT. That was an added bonus.

Results wise, Fran is keeping the program above water. He is safe.

But, my concern is that when they (he) have the opportunity to further elevate the program, they fail to do so. And, I'm concerned that with the player of the year practically the past 3 years, the best we can do is a first weekend exit.

Will the program stay more or less around where it is at, or will we start to see some slipping? Or will it break the glass ceiling?

I honestly don't know. But, I got to figure on the recruiting trail, opposing coaches are saying to top recruits if you are dreaming of long March runs there, think twice.

That said, future recruits might see Iowa as a place if they play really well for a couple of years they could get a shot at the NBA. Which is a double-edge sword and I would agree with Fry's thinking on this......this does make things harder for a program like Iowa because when you get someone good they aren't going to stick around long. So, you better hope you can do something with them while they are here.

And further agreeing with Fry, this is where things are different from the Davis/Olson eras. You might have been able to have a good player stay at Iowa for 4 years before going to the NBA. Marble and Armstrong very well could have left Iowa after the 86-87 season for the NBA if they were playing today. So, I do get that.

But, it is still Fran's job to find a way to get it done. I hope he does and I do hope the program does not start to sink in the next 5 to 10 years from increased apathy if it doesn't.

Because, that is what started dooming Mr. Davis (who still has more top end success) and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Fryowa]

3 things

1. That is Fran's job to get those rankings up. However he may do it. And he has to strike while the iron is hot while they are here.
2. The freaking clowns were able to do it in one year. I hate that. Man do I hate seeing that and our near quarter of a century drought.
3. A blind squirrel finds a nut every once and awhile. We need to find a nut.

1) Not possible. Yes, the disadvantage is that real. You expect a guy working for Iowa to go find two or three big recruiting classes? Enlighten us...I don't think you know how recruiting works. You act like Fran just sits back and takes whoever applies.

Better yet, tell us what players available in the last 3 recruiting classes Iowa should've had that would've ended up in a Sweet 16 bare minimum, and how Iowa was supposed to hit on all of them. It's public knowledge who's out there. Tell us who we should have gotten and some concrete reasons why big name teams should have lost out to Iowa.

2) This is just stupid. ISU fluked into one. You wanna trade places with that garbage program and fan base? See ya.

3) That's the explanation for #2 obviously. Guess what, my man, there aren't very many nuts out there to find. Again...there's a LOT more schools out there that haven't had a S16 in the past 20 years than ones who have. Iowa has literally nothing to pull upper level recruits away from other schools. So...enlighten us as to why an upper level recruit would pick Iowa over MSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, Purdue, or Indiana. And that's just the B1G. Be realistic, too. Don't give us pie in the sky reasons...think about the generation of high schoolers you're dealing with...not Mr Tom's era of kids.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

1) Not possible. Yes, the disadvantage is that real. You expect a guy working for Iowa to go find two or three big recruiting classes? Enlighten us...I don't think you know how recruiting works. You act like Fran just sits back and takes whoever applies.

Better yet, tell us what players available in the last 3 recruiting classes Iowa should've had that would've ended up in a Sweet 16 bare minimum, and how Iowa was supposed to hit on all of them. It's public knowledge who's out there. Tell us who we should have gotten and some concrete reasons why big name teams should have lost out to Iowa.

2) This is just stupid. ISU fluked into one. You wanna trade places with that garbage program and fan base? See ya.

3) That's the explanation for #2 obviously. Guess what, my man, there aren't very many nuts out there to find. Again...there's a LOT more schools out there that haven't had a S16 in the past 20 years than ones who have. Iowa has literally nothing to pull upper level recruits away from other schools. So...enlighten us as to why an upper level recruit would pick Iowa over MSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, Purdue, or Indiana. And that's just the B1G. Be realistic, too. Don't give us pie in the sky reasons...think about the generation of high schoolers you're dealing with...not Mr Tom's era of kids.

1. Fran's job, not mine to land those deals. Not yours or anyone else but Fran and his coaching staff. That is what he gets paid millions for to figure out. You might not like that answer, but that is the truth. He has to figure out a way to put together complete rosters....which I think is another factor in holding the program back from greatness.

Personally, I think Fran may have set his sights to high on some of the guards he was trying to get into the program and was not able to get them to come here. As a result of that, we may have missed on some more viable options and had to settle in some of our classes. The Tyler Ulis recruitment was probably a good example of this, but it did lead to getting his brother....which if we are being honest.....he is not anywhere near his brother.

And we as consumers invest in that product whether that be as boosters, ticket holders, investing our time watching on the tube, talking about Hawkeye sports with friends in person or on social media, or buying the merchandise. That is all we have control over unless we are making the hiring decisions or have some inside influence like maybe the players and families to a certain degree.

2. ISU actually has 3 Sweet 16s, 4 if your count since 1997. NO fucking way will I support that program, but it is embarrassing that they are showing us up on the hardwood in terms of ceiling success.

I know you are trying to spin this into the best possible light and like I said, we can find a lot of common ground in what you have said. But, I believe we are failing when it comes to breaking the glass ceiling and it is frustrating and I think it could be a growing cancer for Fran down the rode. I don't care about other programs, I care about we are doing to improve our situation. But, I don't know for sure....only more time well tell. And we have oodles of it at Iowa.

 

[RyDogg]

So you're assuming they didn't try? Maybe they did and couldn't get one. If you're talking about upgrading from Rebraca then hell yes I'm all in for that. I was just coming from the line of thinking every team has the end of the bench not everyone can play very much. I don't remember the timing of how early before the season it was that Ash got it but it was shortly before I think. So they had roster pretty much set...

Yes with the transfer portal there's somewhat of nonstop action going on but a guy like Fran isn't going to fish in it at that point in the yr unless the perfect fish were to jump in the boat with mutual interest. Like say a Jared Uthoff sort of scenario. But that's rare.

I have no idea how hard they tried, but it's hard to imagine there weren't many players out there better than Ash, who by the way, was given his scholarship at the end of April so not far from this time last year. There should have been others still out there to go after. We never really heard anything about other players other than Rebraca so maybe they didn't really try hard for any others.

 

[Fryowa]

1. Fran's job, not mine to land those deals. Not yours or anyone else but Fran and his coaching staff. That is what he gets paid millions for to figure out. You might not like that answer, but that is the truth. He has to figure out a way to put together complete rosters....which I think is another factor in holding the program back from greatness.

Personally, I think Fran may have set his sights to high on some of the guards he was trying to get into the program and was not able to get them to come here. As a result of that, we may have missed on some more viable options and had to settle in some of our classes. The Tyler Ulis recruitment was probably a good example of this, but it did lead to getting his brother....which if we are being honest.....he is not anywhere near his brother.

And we as consumers invest in that product whether that be as boosters, ticket holders, investing our time watching on the tube, talking about Hawkeye sports with friends in person or on social media, or buying the merchandise. That is all we have control over unless we are making the hiring decisions or have some inside influence like maybe the players and families to a certain degree.

2. ISU actually has 3 Sweet 16s, 4 if your count since 1997. NO fucking way will I support that program, but it is embarrassing that they are showing us up on the hardwood in terms of ceiling success.

I know you are trying to spin this into the best possible light and like I said, we can find a lot of common ground in what you have said. But, I believe we are failing when it comes to breaking the glass ceiling and it is frustrating and I think it could be a growing cancer for Fran down the rode. I don't care about other programs, I care about we are doing to improve our situation. But, I don't know for sure....only more time well tell. And we have oodles of it at Iowa.

Guess what??? Lots of coaches get paid millions and don't make Sweet 16s. Sorry to break it to ya.

And you gloriously skipped over #3.

What are the reasons why in 2022 a recruit would come here over the schools I mentioned??? I went easy and only listed B1G schools

Your problem is you think Iowa basketball is a Ferrari when it's a Chevy and you think it's worth 100 times more than it is. Just like football fans in Lincoln.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Guess what??? Lots of coaches get paid millions and don't make Sweet 16s. Sorry to break it to ya.

And you gloriously skipped over #3.

What are the reasons why in 2022 a recruit would come here over the schools I mentioned??? I went easy and only listed B1G schools

Your problem is you think Iowa basketball is a Ferrari when it's a Chevy and you think it's worth 100 times more than it is. Just like football fans in Lincoln.

We are going to have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Even a
Chevy can drive to the Sweet 16 more than zero times in a near quarter century. Even 1st cousin, UNI can vouch for that.

 

[okeefe4prez]

We are going to have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Even a
Chevy can drive to the Sweet 16 more than zero times in a near quarter century.

Yeah, but you can't deny just how bad the big ten has gotten. crean greased the shit out of the situation in indiana and he made a few sweet 16s but never got farther than that. and that was with crean level grease, which is high. in the non-crean era indiana has looked borderline hopeless. illinois hasn't been to the sweet 16 bince 2005. 17 years. and that team was entirely built with bill self's grease. their fans are apoplectic, breh.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Ben Brust appears to be a total D-Bag....I posted one of his hot takes on Iowa and him trashing the program that once recruited him. Now, I'm not sure what his ambitions are for the future in terms of coaching. Maybe he is happy being a shock-sports-radio jock. But, I would think he destroyed any chances of ever being considered for a job at Iowa.....you never know where an assistant coaching job could land you. So, I think it was stupid how he went about what he said about Iowa.

But, the more I think about it, his central theme might not be that far off. He said all that Iowa does it makes excuses why they can't do this or that. He said go out and win something for crying out loud.

Don't we at some point have to do just that. Find a way to get the job done? Don't we want to see our moment of greatness and believe we can do it and actually do it?

Maybe that is asking to much, but I don't think so.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Yeah, but you can't deny just how bad the big ten has gotten. crean greased the shit out of the situation in indiana and he made a few sweet 16s but never got farther than that. and that was with crean level grease, which is high. in the non-crean era indiana has looked borderline hopeless. illinois hasn't been to the sweet 16 bince 2005. 17 years. and that team was entirely built with bill self's grease. their fans are apoplectic, breh.

True and especially Illinois. They have to be really frustrated over there as well.

 

[Fryowa]

We are going to have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Even a
Chevy can drive to the Sweet 16 more than zero times in a near quarter century. Even 1st cousin, UNI can vouch for that.

Still didn't answer #3. Either admit you don't know why a known top recruit would choose Iowa in the B1G or I'm going to continue to ask for an explanation.

Also, would you choose UNI's results in a JV conference over Iowa's results?

 

[okeefe4prez]

True and especially Illinois. They have to be really frustrated over there as well.

yeah, it just sucks because people of a certain age think of illinois and indiana as basketball powers with iowa as a team that can punch above its weight, but in reality those kind of core gritty teams in the big ten have faded into oblivion. i suspect sparty will be on the same track when izzo hangs it up as well. i was at the sparty-duke game and sparty had one guy who looked like he belonged on the court with duke.

i really do think the biggest problem with the big ten is there are a bunch of quality teams competing for too little regional talent. there's no standout program like kentucky or kansas that sucks all the air out of the room and the conference goes 8 to 10 deep of pretty quality, albeit not fantastic, teams. and then of course there is the homerism in officiating. i seriously refuse to watch big ten games until march because it is an insult to a person's intelligence to watch those games.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Still didn't answer #3. Either admit you don't know why a known top recruit would choose Iowa in the B1G or I'm going to continue to ask for an explanation.

Also, would you choose UNI's results in a JV conference over Iowa's results?

the missouri valley is better than the big ten. look at last year's illinois-Loyola matchup for proof. hell, i'm pretty sure northern iowa beat UNC one of those years when UNC played UNI so Marcus Paige could play close to home.

 

[Knight78]

Any one of our regulars could have/should have played better against Richmond and Iowa wins, sure. If we had given that 12th scholly to a legitimate player, it's possible they could have contributed some in that game that could have made the difference. I would rather start the season with 12 D1 worthy players vs 11. That's just better odds at finding contributors. And even if that 12th scholly doesn't end up being a contributor, if they are D1 athletic, they could at least better simulate guard pressure in practice so our regulars can see pressure in practice from the back court. I doubt Ash was effectively simulating the pressure D our guards received most nights this year.

I would disagree with the line I bolded. We played 10 guys, but apparently Ulis didn't even play a full minute. So 9 guys played. The problem was our bench, which usually contributes quite a bit, was 3-16 from the field and 0-10 from three point range, contributing only 7 points. Having a 12th man (basically my position in college) who could play would have meant nothing in that game.

 

[Knight78]

Just remember, Iowa lost by a couple of possessions. Points were at a premium.

No. In that game, defensive stops were at a premium as the shooting percentages for both teams were low. And we had trouble getting stops consistently.

 

[justwinbaby]

At least we’re not LSU. I think Ash and Ogundele might have a shot at getting scholarships with LSU.

 

[RyDogg]

I would disagree with the line I bolded. We played 10 guys, but apparently Ulis didn't even play a full minute. So 9 guys played. The problem was our bench, which usually contributes quite a bit, was 3-16 from the field and 0-10 from three point range, contributing only 7 points. Having a 12th man (basically my position in college) who could play would have meant nothing in that game.

As I said in a later post when someone made a similar point, it's not guaranteed that whoever got Ash's scholarship would be the 12th man. Maybe they would have cracked the top 8 or better. Just taking a chance on someone with that possibility would have made it worthwhile to try someone with legit D1 ability.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

No. In that game, defensive stops were at a premium as the shooting percentages for both teams were low. And we had trouble getting stops consistently.

Depends on how you want to look at it. Iowa had it's defensive problems as well (defending against the backcuts) but we could have used a few Big O buckets.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Still didn't answer #3. Either admit you don't know why a known top recruit would choose Iowa in the B1G or I'm going to continue to ask for an explanation.

Also, would you choose UNI's results in a JV conference over Iowa's results?

I really don't why you keep asking about "#3" I have already posted my thoughts about that. See the Tyler Ulis example.

And, I think we have got Top guys here (at least under the radar). Garza and KM for example. Our problem is not been getting a superstar. Our problem has been getting a balanced roster while at the same time having said superstar. Subpar guard play and sometimes post play has been holding us back.

Fran has tried to shoot for Mars at the guard position and has missed the moon when that option has been available. Then he had to settle for space junk.

Nope, I just said UNI knows what a Sweet 16 feels like since 1999.