Josh Ogundele in the transfer portal

[HaydenHawk56]

I should ask you Fry, what is you definition of success? Where do you want to see this program be in the next 5 years? 10 years? Or do you think this is as good as it gets.

I can tell you I think the program as it is right now is in a satisfactory spot.

It just seems like anything said seems to ruffle feathers out of you if it is anything more than status quo.

 

[Fryowa]

I should ask you Fry, what is you definition of success? Where do you want to see this program be in the next 5 years? 10 years? Or do you think this is as good as it get

This is as good as it gets. Iowa is firmly not a blue blood, and firmly not a bottom feeder. Iowa does not have a zillionth of the recruiting or marketing power of a Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, or Ohio State when it comes to basketball and that’s not even mentioning blue bloods. One can go on and on and on about how Fran should do this and Fran should do that, but the reality is that Iowa is right where it is because we get the types of players we get.

I like Fran. I don’t make a secret of that. His players love him, he’s a passionate defender of his players (as a coach myself I make that #1 priority), and most important he has integrity. Say what you want but he’s not getting the U into cheating scandals, bribery scandals, or adultery scandals. If you’re cool with that type of coach to get wins, then catch ya later, I ain’t on board and this conversation is over.

You are CLEARLY (maybe not to yourself) a homer. You are stuck in the past even worse than a nebraska fan. You saw a coach that got ridiculously lucky with his roster in the 80s and caught a little lightning in a bottle, and 35 years later you expect something resembling that. Welp…it ain’t happenin Jack.

The sports world resembles nothing of what it was in 1980 whatever and it never will. Kids want fame, Twitter and Instagram exposure, and pro careers. Iowa won’t give them any of that.

In 2022 the only way you’re going to get yourself dominant is to already be a dominant blue blood or win the lottery on a unicorn coach. And keep in mind, the best coaches in history were unicorns. Every one of ‘em. Nobody knewNick Saban and Mike Krzewcrskzrycziewski we’re gonna light the world afire, when they got hired they were pretty much just another bumpkin coach until they started winning.

So fire guys and start playing the coach lottery trying to win the jackpot??? That’s about as fucking stupid as someone continuing to play scratch tickets because “at some point I have to win.” Nobody wins. Only luck. It’s what got nebraska where they are in every sport now. Idiot is who thought they were smart and could defy the laws of probablility.

So yeah. A bunch of winning seasons, some really cool All American and future pro players, a BTT tourney win? I’ll take it. You can go on wishing we were playing scratch tickets.

 

[Fryowa]

It just seems like anything said seems to ruffle feathers out of you if it is anything more than status quo.

No. It’s your incessant claiming to be “a Hawk” but yet constantly bitching and bitching and bitching and posting negative articles, and bitching about Fran and bitching that the bar is lowered and bitching that our guys shouldn’t get scholarships and bitching that we don’t play well enough and bitching that Fran doesn’t coach well enough. Your signature is even bitching about the last three Iowa coaches for fucks sake.

That’s not being a fan.

And I know you won’t change your mind, so go find a team that makes you happy instead of miserable.

 

[RyDogg]

Ash being on the team and often spoken about by the announcers and shown late in games generates more than the average student. He's been representing the school. Tough to put any kind of tangible value on that but whatever it is it's more than the avg student which where my initial comparison was coming from. I think he probably got fair trade for his scholly for 1 yr considering he was in the program for 4.

Any value he provided at the end of the game for fans or announcers was more comedic than anything. I doubt the Big 10 or Iowa gained any fincancial value from his appearances.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

I don't disagree that the starters blew it....especially shooting wise. But, the Big O's size could have been used. Unfortunately, the coaching staff did not start making the necessary adjustments until it was to late. Iowa needed to pound the ball inside and they stayed committed to the perimeter game way to long.

I don't think Josh was the difference between winning or losing that game.. Shooting like total crap as a team was. A big chunk of the shots were makeable. PM is pretty much the main Hawkeye who I've at times railed against for shot selection and even that was situational. For the most part this team knew what a good shot was and wasn't. They just didn't hit nearly enough. Be it the ball the arena dead legs pick your combination of reasons/excuses why they just didn't hit enough.

Could Iowa have went to the hoop more and not taken as many jumpers? Sure. I thought Murray got way too few touches inside the 3 pt line period. So that's a take. But as far as say using big Josh to help the offense goes he may have for a couple possessions but that'd have been about it.

 

[RyDogg]

What if the Murrays had just played better? Patrick, JT, JBo etc? Dreaming about if the 11th & 12th man on the bench woulda been difference makers in a big game is quite the stretch. How many 12th men impact games in March? Most schools tighten their benches down to 7-8 tops. Iowas isn't normal playing 9-10 guys a lot.

Keegan Murray was pumping out 25 plus almost automatically against better competition all yr long yet he wasn't all that good against Richmond. I'd rather pass the blame onto the players that are leaned on all yr long to keep doing what they had been instead of the end of the bench guys who literally didn't play much.

Any one of our regulars could have/should have played better against Richmond and Iowa wins, sure. If we had given that 12th scholly to a legitimate player, it's possible they could have contributed some in that game that could have made the difference. I would rather start the season with 12 D1 worthy players vs 11. That's just better odds at finding contributors. And even if that 12th scholly doesn't end up being a contributor, if they are D1 athletic, they could at least better simulate guard pressure in practice so our regulars can see pressure in practice from the back court. I doubt Ash was effectively simulating the pressure D our guards received most nights this year.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Any one of our regulars could have/should have played better against Richmond and Iowa wins, sure. If we had given that 12th scholly to a legitimate player, it's possible they could have contributed some in that game that could have made the difference. I would rather start the season with 12 D1 worthy players vs 11. That's just better odds at finding contributors. And even if that 12th scholly doesn't end up being a contributor, if they are D1 athletic, they could at least better simulate guard pressure in practice so our regulars can see pressure in practice from the back court. I doubt Ash was effectively simulating the pressure D our guards received most nights this year.

Watch the championship game tonight. Let me know how impactful either teams 12th man ends up being. Hell without foul trouble I'll be surprised if either team goes 9 deep.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

This is as good as it gets. Iowa is firmly not a blue blood, and firmly not a bottom feeder. Iowa does not have a zillionth of the recruiting or marketing power of a Wisconsin, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, or Ohio State when it comes to basketball and that’s not even mentioning blue bloods. One can go on and on and on about how Fran should do this and Fran should do that, but the reality is that Iowa is right where it is because we get the types of players we get.

I like Fran. I don’t make a secret of that. His players love him, he’s a passionate defender of his players (as a coach myself I make that #1 priority), and most important he has integrity. Say what you want but he’s not getting the U into cheating scandals, bribery scandals, or adultery scandals. If you’re cool with that type of coach to get wins, then catch ya later, I ain’t on board and this conversation is over.

You are CLEARLY (maybe not to yourself) a homer. You are stuck in the past even worse than a nebraska fan. You saw a coach that got ridiculously lucky with his roster in the 80s and caught a little lightning in a bottle, and 35 years later you expect something resembling that. Welp…it ain’t happenin Jack.

The sports world resembles nothing of what it was in 1980 whatever and it never will. Kids want fame, Twitter and Instagram exposure, and pro careers. Iowa won’t give them any of that.

In 2022 the only way you’re going to get yourself dominant is to already be a dominant blue blood or win the lottery on a unicorn coach. And keep in mind, the best coaches in history were unicorns. Every one of ‘em. Nobody knewNick Saban and Mike Krzewcrskzrycziewski we’re gonna light the world afire, when they got hired they were pretty much just another bumpkin coach until they started winning.

So fire guys and start playing the coach lottery trying to win the jackpot??? That’s about as fucking stupid as someone continuing to play scratch tickets because “at some point I have to win.” Nobody wins. Only luck. It’s what got nebraska where they are in every sport now. Idiot is who thought they were smart and could defy the laws of probablility.

So yeah. A bunch of winning seasons, some really cool All American and future pro players, a BTT tourney win? I’ll take it. You can go on wishing we were playing scratch tickets.

I think we can find a lot of common ground here. A lot. Again, we both agree Fran is safe and should be.

My biggest concern with Fran is that he is not going to have KM/Garza's fall in his lap all the time. Even with them, we are still struggling to make it out of the first weekend. What is going to happen when he does not have a player of the year on the roster?

Now, don't get me wrong, as long as Fran is putting us into position each year (or almost I still say 3 out of 5 years is fair to be NCAA bound at Iowa...especially without a significant run) he will be just fine. At least I think so. 5-10 years down the road, I don't know and if some fans will get tired of it...similar to Mr. Davis.

I still argue Fran is a dime a dozen. If he decided to walk tomorrow, I would not be overly concerned....other than Barta making the hire.....which yes in that aspect is concerning.

Fry, I don't hate Fran. I actually have a lot of respect for his rebuilding job and little by little (like the BTT title this year) we are seeing some incremental improvement. But, I don't believe he is the only show in town. Especially for recent results here.

But, I do think he has some questionable strategy, still has incomplete rosters (I agree some of that is due to the players leaving for the NBA) , and does not have a tight enough leash on his guys outside of practice on social media.

I can only wish Fran well as long as he stays here, but I would be ok if he ever decided to go back East and coach if this is the best we are truly going to do.

I actually have lived through more than just Mr. Davis you know. I have seen Lute and others.

I don't think asking for a Sweet 16 (for freaks sake even one) with practically the player of the year for the last 3 years makes me a backwater Nebraska like fan. I also don't think it makes me a bad fan to question a scholy decision that did put us at more of a competitive disadvantage. Even if slight.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

No. It’s your incessant claiming to be “a Hawk” but yet constantly bitching and bitching and bitching and posting negative articles, and bitching about Fran and bitching that the bar is lowered and bitching that our guys shouldn’t get scholarships and bitching that we don’t play well enough and bitching that Fran doesn’t coach well enough. Your signature is even bitching about the last three Iowa coaches for fucks sake.

That’s not being a fan.

And I know you won’t change your mind, so go find a team that makes you happy instead of miserable.

If it was anyone but me (or it seems) if I post an article from ESPN or otherwise, it seems to piss you off. I have only posted those articles because they are Hawkeye related. I think even one of them just got removed. Feels like I have a target on my back.

I only posted once about the bar being lowered and that was today.....really that was in reference to all of the bitching at other people in this thread about the Ash Scholy deal. I think that kind of speaks volumes (like a sliver of the pie, or looking at a portion of the bloodstream) about our issues of getting over the hump. If we were any other fan base like a Wisconsin for example, I don't think we would be trying to spin an Ash Scholy into something as positive as we are here. I don't think this is something we should be overly celebrating while at the same time seeing a big body like the O leaving our program. I just don't agree here.

I celebrate positives and negatives that go with program. I'm not all negative, but one posting of a negative article sure seems to cloud things over.

My signature is more tongue and cheek...and is more about Alford and Lick. Just to put that out there.

 

[RyDogg]

Watch the championship game tonight. Let me know how impactful either teams 12th man ends up being. Hell without foul trouble I'll be surprised if either team goes 9 deep.

Who's to say that 12th scholly ends up being the 12th player. That was the point of my post. If we gave the 12th scholly to a legit player, it doesn't mean that person is our 12th man on the team. Maybe they offer more than some of our top 8-10 and become a contributor and make the needed impact in our last game or others before that. It was a quarantee that Ash would be at best our 12th player and a nonfactor on the floor.

My post was about increasing odds of finding a contributor. We used a scholly for a transfer in Rebraca and he was solid, not great, but a contributor. What if we used 2 for bigs and the other ended up contributing more? Or a guard?shooter and they pass someone on the depth chart? I'd rather we had taken that chance and increase odds of improving the team.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

I don't think Josh was the difference between winning or losing that game.. Shooting like total crap as a team was. A big chunk of the shots were makeable. PM is pretty much the main Hawkeye who I've at times railed against for shot selection and even that was situational. For the most part this team knew what a good shot was and wasn't. They just didn't hit nearly enough. Be it the ball the arena dead legs pick your combination of reasons/excuses why they just didn't hit enough.

Could Iowa have went to the hoop more and not taken as many jumpers? Sure. I thought Murray got way too few touches inside the 3 pt line period. So that's a take. But as far as say using big Josh to help the offense goes he may have for a couple possessions but that'd have been about it.

Just remember, Iowa lost by a couple of possessions. Points were at a premium.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Who's to say that 12th scholly ends up being the 12th player. That was the point of my post. If we gave the 12th scholly to a legit player, it doesn't mean that person is our 12th man on the team. Maybe they offer more than some of our top 8-10 and become a contributor and make the needed impact in our last game or others before that. It was a quarantee that Ash would be at best our 12th player and a nonfactor on the floor.

My post was about increasing odds of finding a contributor. We used a scholly for a transfer in Rebraca and he was solid, not great, but a contributor. What if we used 2 for bigs and the other ended up contributing more? Or a guard?shooter and they pass someone on the depth chart? I'd rather we had taken that chance and increase odds of improving the team.

This X1000.

 

[HawkPrdatr40]

Watch the championship game tonight. Let me know how impactful either teams 12th man ends up being. Hell without foul trouble I'll be surprised if either team goes 9 deep.

Exactly and more importantly when we get to March Madness the amount of breaks, etc.. you don't need 11 or 12 man bench.

UNC against Duke had zero bench impact in the 2nd half and it wasn't until late in the game when Bascot twisted his ankle that someone came off the bench.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

WE all hate the clowns. Hate maybe not strong enough a word. But, if this is as good as it gets, how do we explain a team that went from 2 wins to the Sweet 16? In the doffus's first year no doubt!

That is also why I can't quite buy the argument that this is as good as it gets. Because if little brother can do it (and they had 2 others since 1999) Iowa should not be sitting on a drought of no 2nd weekends close to a quarter of a century later. And Fran owns 12 of those years and counting.

But, I do believe that if we believe this is as good as it gets, then 1st weekends will continue to be the ceiling. Satisfactory yes, but a very good man was fired here and did more.

By the way, I got thinking more Fry about your feelings on Tom Davis. You say he got lucky....but this is a coach that put together an Elite 8 at another school (Boston College). Mr. Davis was a hell of teacher of the game. Raveling couldn't coach up those guys...you can't take that away from Mr. Davis. And Mr. Davis still assembled a Sweet 16 team beyond the Raveling recruits.

I just don't get the hate for him when as it stands, he continues to be the Last Jedi (or as close to it) for this program. I know he is not coming back, but Mr. Davis should not be a taboo subject right? We should be grateful for his time here. We would not have KM, more than likely, if it was not for Mr. Davis recruiting his dad. There would not have been connection here.

And I only bring up Mr. Davis now because you want to bring him into the discussion.

I guess I just don't understand how you can put Fran on such a high perch, but short-change Tom Davis at the same time?

Maybe you have said, I don't know where you were at on him being let go in 1999. I was firmly against it. And I would be the same if Fran was let go by the University tomorrow (not happening).

The only difference is I would be at peace (other than Barta making another hire) if Fran walked to another job (not happening). I would have been devastated if Tom would have left Iowa on his own accord.....which he did not want to do clearly.

Since Mr. Davis's ousting, we have seen the 1st weekend in the NCAAs multiple times (with Fran and Fraud). We have had some NIT along the way as well. We had no post-seasons and nuclear winter (Lickliter). We have had scandal and horrible PR...perhaps none worse the PP ordeal.

We have had 3 BTT tournament titles I believe between Fran and Fraud. They are extremely fun rides and this one was no different this year. But, they have not gained the traction, thus far, in what we would hope they would lead to in the Big Dance.

I also personally feel that the University of Iowa (or Bowlsby) fired Mr. Davis because they thought they could do better. 23 years later, I'm still waiting for us to do better.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. It gets frustrating...does not mean we are not Hawkeyes or we are turning in our Hawkeyes cards.....we just want the University of Iowa to live up to the standard they set out to do. And every year it does not happen, it gets more painful, especially knowing what they did to Tom Davis and what it had done to our program for so many years.

As long as Fran stays, I can only wish him well and hope that he breaks through. But, he is 62 years old and has not done it anywhere else. He has had practically the player of the year 3 years in a row. It is frustrating.....I hate seeing Wisconsin (or clowny) having some shiny toys we can't play with....especially if we box ourselves into the phantom zone of staying in our own lane thinking this is best it is going to be.

What is going to happen if the guard problems continue (maybe there is hope with the guys coming in and Perkins late play), post play is still an area of concern, and no superstar on the team like Garza or KM?

Lots of questions marks. Maybe Kris will be that superstar? I don't know, it will be interesting to see how he plays without his brother around him.

I just want Iowa to do the best that it can and I think we are better than perpetually being out in the first weekend. It is frustrating being Groundhog Day and Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown. Along for the ride for life regardless.

 

[Fryowa]

WE all hate the clowns. Hate maybe not strong enough a word. But, if this is as good as it gets, how do we explain a team that went from 2 wins to the Sweet 16? In the doffus's first year no doubt!

That is also why I can't quite buy the argument that this is as good as it gets. Because if little brother can do it (and they had 2 others since 1999) Iowa should not be sitting on a drought of no 2nd weekends close to a quarter of a century later. And Fran owns 12 of those years and counting.

But, I do believe that if we believe this is as good as it gets, then 1st weekends will continue to be the ceiling. Satisfactory yes, but a very good man was fired here and did more.

By the way, I got thinking more Fry about your feelings on Tom Davis. You say he got lucky....but this is a coach that put together an Elite 8 at another school (Boston College). Mr. Davis was a hell of teacher of the game. Raveling couldn't coach up those guys...you can't take that away from Mr. Davis. And Mr. Davis still assembled a Sweet 16 team beyond the Raveling recruits.

I just don't get the hate for him when as it stands, he continues to be the Last Jedi (or as close to it) for this program. I know he is not coming back, but Mr. Davis should not be a taboo subject right? We should be grateful for his time here. We would not have KM, more than likely, if it was not for Mr. Davis recruiting his dad. There would not have been connection here.

And I only bring up Mr. Davis now because you want to bring him into the discussion.

I guess I just don't understand how you can put Fran on such a high perch, but short-change Tom Davis at the same time?

Maybe you have said, I don't know where you were at on him being let go in 1999. I was firmly against it. And I would be the same if Fran was let go by the University tomorrow (not happening).

The only difference is I would be at peace (other than Barta making another hire) if Fran walked to another job (not happening). I would have been devastated if Tom would have left Iowa on his own accord.....which he did not want to do clearly.

Since Mr. Davis's ousting, we have seen the 1st weekend in the NCAAs multiple times (with Fran and Fraud). We have had some NIT along the way as well. We had no post-seasons and nuclear winter (Lickliter). We have had scandal and horrible PR...perhaps none worse the PP ordeal.

We have had 3 BTT tournament titles I believe between Fran and Fraud. They are extremely fun rides and this one was no different this year. But, they have not gained the traction, thus far, in what we would hope they would lead to in the Big Dance.

I also personally feel that the University of Iowa (or Bowlsby) fired Mr. Davis because they thought they could do better. 23 years later, I'm still waiting for us to do better.

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. It gets frustrating...does not mean we are not Hawkeyes or we are turning in our Hawkeyes cards.....we just want the University of Iowa to live up to the standard they set out to do. And every year it does not happen, it gets more painful, especially knowing what they did to Tom Davis and what it had done to our program for so many years.

As long as Fran stays, I can only wish him well and hope that he breaks through. But, he is 62 years old and has not done it anywhere else. He has had practically the player of the year 3 years in a row. It is frustrating.....I hate seeing Wisconsin (or clowny) having some shiny toys we can't play with....especially if we box ourselves into the phantom zone of staying in our own lane thinking this is best it is going to be.

What is going to happen if the guard problems continue (maybe there is hope with the guys coming in and Perkins late play), post play is still an area of concern, and no superstar on the team like Garza or KM?

Lots of questions marks. Maybe Kris will be that superstar? I don't know, it will be interesting to see how he plays without his brother around him.

I just want Iowa to do the best that it can and I think we are better than perpetually being out in the first weekend. It is frustrating being Groundhog Day and Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown. Along for the ride for life regardless.

Whether Mr Tom was a good coach or not (he was still way more lucky than good to score that lineup, especially in a day and age where recruiting wasn't a 100th as competitive as it is now), you're still a nebraska-esque homer.

You can't see the forest for the trees. You quite literally sound exactly like every single one of the nebraska fans we make fun of for being pissed off that they aren't good anymore. They can't see how ridiculous they are for not taking the entire sports landscape into context.

2022 is not 1987. Fran and Iowa in general has an infinitely harder task recruiting-wise than Mr Tom ever did.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Just remember, Iowa lost by a couple of possessions. Points were at a premium.

True but I'd rather put my eggs in the Murray/JBo McCaffery/Perkins/ basket to get a couple of buckets than Josh. It's hilarious to me that folks think Josh mighta been the difference in that game. He literally hit one FG of consequence all season but yeah....

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Who's to say that 12th scholly ends up being the 12th player. That was the point of my post. If we gave the 12th scholly to a legit player, it doesn't mean that person is our 12th man on the team. Maybe they offer more than some of our top 8-10 and become a contributor and make the needed impact in our last game or others before that. It was a quarantee that Ash would be at best our 12th player and a nonfactor on the floor.

My post was about increasing odds of finding a contributor. We used a scholly for a transfer in Rebraca and he was solid, not great, but a contributor. What if we used 2 for bigs and the other ended up contributing more? Or a guard?shooter and they pass someone on the depth chart? I'd rather we had taken that chance and increase odds of improving the team.

So you're assuming they didn't try? Maybe they did and couldn't get one. If you're talking about upgrading from Rebraca then hell yes I'm all in for that. I was just coming from the line of thinking every team has the end of the bench not everyone can play very much. I don't remember the timing of how early before the season it was that Ash got it but it was shortly before I think. So they had roster pretty much set...

Yes with the transfer portal there's somewhat of nonstop action going on but a guy like Fran isn't going to fish in it at that point in the yr unless the perfect fish were to jump in the boat with mutual interest. Like say a Jared Uthoff sort of scenario. But that's rare.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

True but I'd rather put my eggs in the Murray/JBo McCaffery/Perkins/ basket to get a couple of buckets than Josh. It's hilarious to me that folks think Josh mighta been the difference in that game. He literally hit one FG of consequence all season but yeah....

With the game on the line...most likely not. But the Big O through the course of the game to get a couple more buckets most definitely. That could have been the difference for a team that was struggling to shoot the ball.

 

[HaydenHawk56]

Whether Mr Tom was a good coach or not (he was still way more lucky than good to score that lineup, especially in a day and age where recruiting wasn't a 100th as competitive as it is now), you're still a nebraska-esque homer.

You can't see the forest for the trees. You quite literally sound exactly like every single one of the nebraska fans we make fun of for being pissed off that they aren't good anymore. They can't see how ridiculous they are for not taking the entire sports landscape into context.

2022 is not 1987. Fran and Iowa in general has an infinitely harder task recruiting-wise than Mr Tom ever did.

I don't believe it makes me a Nebraska type fan for wanting even 1 Sweet 16 going on a near quarter of a century without one and practically having the player of the year 3 times in a row. It is frustrating. I'm not asking for a national title every year.

 

[Fryowa]

I don't believe it makes me a Nebraska type fan for wanting even 1 Sweet 16 going on a near quarter of a century without one and practically having the player of the year 3 times in a row. It is frustrating. I'm not asking for a national title every year.

When you look at the number of historic blue blood programs out there cranking out early NBAers like they're going out of style it sure as hell does make it crazy to ask for a Sweet 16.

Below are Iowa's recruiting rankings since Fran took over. Are rankings the end-all, be-all? No. But especially when you look at a decent size sample they're indicative. I didn't include Alford and Lickliter because, well, that's even dumber yet.

You're mad because a team with an average recruiting ranking of 68 over the span of more than a decade doesn't make a Sweet 16??? An average ranking in the B1G of 10 out of 14??? Again...recruiting isn't what it was in '84, man. And Mr Tom didn't just take that class (that he didn't even recruit) and turn 'em into big time ballers. If you're not a huge name team with a history of cranking out elite 8 and better finishes plus a bunch of pros, you aren't cracking the top 35 any time soon unless you get super lucky. Fran has outpaced his recruiting class ranking in almost every year and most times by a long ways.

Get fuckin real with that Sweet 16 expectation.

Do flukes happen every year to get in the S16? Absolutely. But there are a whole lot more programs that never see it than do.