John Lickliter's 3 Ball (and other unnecessary gripes)

storminspank

storminspank

Justin VanLaere
It's Monday, I'm grouchy, and I just thought about the UM game again, so I'm even more grouchy.... time for a rant.

I was reading a thread a week or two ago and someone mentioned Lickliter was Iowa's best three point shooter. I let it go, just to avoid the whole argument, but I have to bring it up now that Lickliter was given 24 min of PT last game.

John is shooting 28.1% on the year, 2/14 his past 4 games (14.3%).

It's Todd's team, he's knows what's best... but that said, I still don't understand the logic last time out. I get that he was upset with the momentum killing quick three that Cully put up and the fact that he was dribbling around without purpose on occasion. However, didn't we see some of the same stuff from John, as well?

OK, that's enough from me for a while.
 
Two weeks ago, I think lil lick was our leading 3 point shooting guard at 7 for 18...35%?...Bawinkel has picked it up and is now at 38%, and Cougill leads all at 41%...but otherwise, our three point shooting is pretty abysmal.

But, I agree that the more Lil Lick jacks up those threes, the more it looks like that early shooting streak was a mirage. Might be just me, but it almost seems now like the opposing team might bait our guys into giving Lil Lick the ball late in shot clock by leaving him a bit open,and then clamping on him...why is it that Lil Lick seems to be getting more wide open looks than anyone else? If Gatens got those looks, I would want him to shoot it...but alas, Gatens and even Cully do not get those wide open looks. Or is it because Lil Lick knows how to move to open spaces better than the rest?
 
storminspank said:
It's Monday, I'm grouchy, and I just thought about the UM game again, so I'm even more grouchy.... time for a rant.

I was reading a thread a week or two ago and someone mentioned Lickliter was Iowa's best three point shooter. I let it go, just to avoid the whole argument, but I have to bring it up now that Lickliter was given 24 min of PT last game.

John is shooting 28.1% on the year, 2/14 his past 4 games (14.3%).

It's Todd's team, he's knows what's best... but that said, I still don't understand the logic last time out. I get that he was upset with the momentum killing quick three that Cully put up and the fact that he was dribbling around without purpose on occasion. However, didn't we see some of the same stuff from John, as well?

OK, that's enough from me for a while.
Click to expand...

I've never seen John jack up a 30 footer with 30 seconds to go on the shot clock. Never.

Discuss.
 
Coach was really upset with Cully, so he sat him. I don't see what there is to discuss. I think as long as he is the coach he gets to make these type of decisions.
 
imported_ankle23 said:
I've never seen John jack up a 30 footer with 30 seconds to go on the shot clock. Never.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

Don't know if this is sarcasm or not.

However, I'd rather see a wide open three taken (one that has gone down more times than not) than a leaning 28 footer with a defender draped with 2 secs on the shot clock.
 
JHHawk said:
Two weeks ago, I think lil lick was our leading 3 point shooting guard at 7 for 18...35%?...Bawinkel has picked it up and is now at 38%, and Cougill leads all at 41%...but otherwise, our three point shooting is pretty abysmal.

But, I agree that the more Lil Lick jacks up those threes, the more it looks like that early shooting streak was a mirage. Might be just me, but it almost seems now like the opposing team might bait our guys into giving Lil Lick the ball late in shot clock by leaving him a bit open,and then clamping on him...why is it that Lil Lick seems to be getting more wide open looks than anyone else? If Gatens got those looks, I would want him to shoot it...but alas, Gatens and even Cully do not get those wide open looks. Or is it because Lil Lick knows how to move to open spaces better than the rest?
Click to expand...

Lil Lick is the worst 3 pt shooter on the team besides Fuller (according to this year's stats)

Iowa College Basketball - Hawkeyes Statistics - Men's Basketball - ESPN

His PPS is worst on the team, as well, under 1.
 
And I do want to apologize. I don't want to rip on John. That wasn't the intention of this thread. It was just to re-express my frustration with the minutes that John was given and the minutes Cully didn't get.

It felt, watching the game, that it was an "arms up in the air, let's give up" move. Just my silly opinion.
 
storminspank said:
Lil Lick is the worst 3 pt shooter on the team besides Fuller (according to this year's stats)

Iowa College Basketball - Hawkeyes Statistics - Men's Basketball - ESPN

His PPS is worst on the team, as well, under 1.
Click to expand...

I cant believe its February 1st and we are discussing the merits of Lil Lick's game. No one in their wildest dreams couldve predicted this at the start of the seaspm! Cully makes some Freshman mistakes but imo the notion that Lil Lick is a better option just isnt true. Lick has had his moments but Cully needs to play as much as he can to get experience. I dont think benching a guy is necessary to make your point - especially when plan B is John freaking Lickliter.

And Spank is right, the way the Michigan game had played out if Cully hadnt jacked that 3 we wouldve either turned it over or got a worse shot. Iowa's O gets progressively worse as the shot clock runs down
 
storminspank said:
And I do want to apologize. I don't want to rip on John. That wasn't the intention of this thread. It was just to re-express my frustration with the minutes that John was given and the minutes Cully didn't get.

It felt, watching the game, that it was an "arms up in the air, let's give up" move. Just my silly opinion.
Click to expand...

Seems like you could have a Family Guy style "you know what really grinds my gears" segment on this topic. that might make you feel better :)
 
storminspank said:
Don't know if this is sarcasm or not.

However, I'd rather see a wide open three taken (one that has gone down more times than not) than a leaning 28 footer with a defender draped with 2 secs on the shot clock.
Click to expand...

Storm I think the point being made is the desperation three(an all to familiar occurence with this team) is a product of the whole team playing poor offense. I would like quicker shots as well but Cully's three pointer there was just a terrible shot. We had a chance to cut it to single digits on that possession. It was very early, he was 30 feet from the basket and he was not even that open. Plus one big was out on the perimeter so only one person inside to rebound.


I agree that I don't want Lick shooting or playing much as well. But there is no other option and Cully can't handle playing 38 minutes a game.

Now what I would have done is sat Cully for a few minutes. Explain what he did wrong there and get him back out there. I think sometimes Lick's style tends to destroy the confidence of certain players (Fuller and Cole last year, Jeff Peterson his freshman year).
 
storminspank said:
It's Monday, I'm grouchy, and I just thought about the UM game again, so I'm even more grouchy.... time for a rant.

I was reading a thread a week or two ago and someone mentioned Lickliter was Iowa's best three point shooter. I let it go, just to avoid the whole argument, but I have to bring it up now that Lickliter was given 24 min of PT last game.

John is shooting 28.1% on the year, 2/14 his past 4 games (14.3%).

It's Todd's team, he's knows what's best... but that said, I still don't understand the logic last time out. I get that he was upset with the momentum killing quick three that Cully put up and the fact that he was dribbling around without purpose on occasion. However, didn't we see some of the same stuff from John, as well?

OK, that's enough from me for a while.
Click to expand...


This is one of Big Lick's biggest flaws in my opinion. He has watched Hoosiers too many damn times. Once you get in his dog house it's hard to get back out. I get it Lick, I really do. But at some point don't you think you are harming the team more than you are helping it by allowing the same things to happen by different players and not sending a message to them or the team?

I made a point about this a month or so ago, and last year, and the year before that. You can have the exact same situation and one player is treated differently than the next based solely on Licks vantage point. He did it to Kelly, he did it to Palmer, he did it to Freeman, he did it to Peterson and they are all gone.

How are we doing John? Did you get your point across the way you wanted to? How have the unintended consequences turned out?

You need to have your best players on the floor playing and learning. Practices are used to correct the problem, not the game. Practice makes permanent, not perfect. So you are either not practicing the right way or your teaching is incredibly not on point and the players don't get it.
 
Hooper said:
Coach was really upset with Cully, so he sat him. I don't see what there is to discuss. I think as long as he is the coach he gets to make these type of decisions.
Click to expand...

So you're with me in thinking he should be fired at years end?
 
storminspank said:
It's Monday, I'm grouchy, and I just thought about the UM game again, so I'm even more grouchy.... time for a rant.

I was reading a thread a week or two ago and someone mentioned Lickliter was Iowa's best three point shooter. I let it go, just to avoid the whole argument, but I have to bring it up now that Lickliter was given 24 min of PT last game.

John is shooting 28.1% on the year, 2/14 his past 4 games (14.3%).

It's Todd's team, he's knows what's best... but that said, I still don't understand the logic last time out. I get that he was upset with the momentum killing quick three that Cully put up and the fact that he was dribbling around without purpose on occasion. However, didn't we see some of the same stuff from John, as well?

OK, that's enough from me for a while.
Click to expand...


My only problem with anyone that has an issue with Cully's quick 3..... or Coach Lick being so ****** about it..... what happened the very next possession after the timeout when Cully put up that 3???

The next possession Little Lick had to hoist up a one handed 3 point shot to beat the shot clock.



I'd rather have Cully take a predetermined 3 pointer than having to hoist up a 3 to beat the shot clock.


So running the offense to get that shot isn't that great of an option.
 
I don't have a problem with lil lick playing a few minutes here and there to spell payne, but 24 minutes on the road is absolutely ridiculous. I don't care if coach is trying to make a point by sitting payne; the game was still not out of reach considering I think we were down by 13 after that missed 3 pt shot with like 10 mins to play.

Lil Lick would seriously not be playing 24 mins in a game for Kirkwood.

He is a liability on both ends of the floor and should only be used to give payne a breather every now and then.

I sure wish Gatens or May could handle the ball a little bit better.
 
TalkHawk said:
My only problem with anyone that has an issue with Cully's quick 3..... or Coach Lick being so ****** about it..... what happened the very next possession after the timeout when Cully put up that 3???

The next possession Little Lick had to hoist up a one handed 3 point shot to beat the shot clock.


I'd rather have Cully take a predetermined 3 pointer than having to hoist up a 3 to beat the shot clock.


So running the offense to get that shot isn't that great of an option.
Click to expand...

Those are exactly my points.
Cully hits a 30 ftr vs. MSU early in the shot clock and it's a GREAT shot. But not vs. UM? Sure it hurt the momentum that he missed it, but what if he makes it? If he makes it, it's a great shot, if not, it's bad.

Against UM, the offense just could not get going. If Cully had an open look, take it. It sure beats jacking up an awful three with 2 secs on the shot clock.

What Iowa REALLY should have been doing is getting the ball into Fuller and Cole every time down the court - unfortunately Cole was stuck on the bench with 1 foul.
 
Little lick is a joke

I have never felt I could guard and stop a D1 BB player

I could shut him down in a heart beat.

Who can he guard?

He is a joke

We need a change

Lick must go
 
I found it amusing when the student section gave him a very noticeable "cheer" when he finally hit a shot
 
storminspank said:
Those are exactly my points.
Cully hits a 30 ftr vs. MSU early in the shot clock and it's a GREAT shot. But not vs. UM? Sure it hurt the momentum that he missed it, but what if he makes it? If he makes it, it's a great shot, if not, it's bad.

Against UM, the offense just could not get going. If Cully had an open look, take it. It sure beats jacking up an awful three with 2 secs on the shot clock.

What Iowa REALLY should have been doing is getting the ball into Fuller and Cole every time down the court - unfortunately Cole was stuck on the bench with 1 foul.
Click to expand...

Storm - a 30 foot 3 pointer is available at any time in the shot clock. It is a low % shot to start with. On top of it, I believe he was fairly contested on the shot. Had he made it, it would have still been a poor-judgment shot.

Pistons - given Iowa's circumstances, he is the best available player. Of course he isn't a D1 player. That being said, he is not as bad as people like to make him out to be. He had a great move with the ball v. Indiana (or OSU, now that I think of it) that schooled their best player - that hesitation move for two. That was a thing of beauty, made more beautiful given the person who executed it and who it was executed against.

Funny the quick change of tone after one bad loss, on the road.
 
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