Joe Poz Article on Butler Duke...real good
- Thread starter JonDMiller
- Start date
JonDMiller
Publisher/Founder
And a surprisingly good article from ESPN's Pat Forde
NCAA tournament: An epic title game was nearly the best ever - ESPN
NCAA tournament: An epic title game was nearly the best ever - ESPN
Can we have it both ways though?
I mean people were on here clamoring for Lick's head and ripping his slow and boring basketball and then they see a game that epitomizes that kind of ball (no fast breaks, no dunks) and they are calling it a great game.
Make up your minds people!
I mean people were on here clamoring for Lick's head and ripping his slow and boring basketball and then they see a game that epitomizes that kind of ball (no fast breaks, no dunks) and they are calling it a great game.
Make up your minds people!
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
Too bad Forde uses the word "epic".
I'm sorry, I can't read his stuff even if I try.
I'm sorry, I can't read his stuff even if I try.
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
The Butler team that play Duke last night looked nothing like the Iowa team. There were fast breaks, there was a TON of dribble penetration, switches on D when there were supposed to be switches, shots within the offense, shots during the first 10 seconds of the shot clock.
Don't mistake "the system"
with a good team/game... they are completely different.
troy
Well-Known Member
Did this game top the 1992 Duke vs. Kentucky game?
The Butler team that play Duke last night looked nothing like the Iowa team. There were fast breaks, there was a TON of dribble penetration, switches on D when there were supposed to be switches, shots within the offense, shots during the first 10 seconds of the shot clock.
Don't mistake "the system"
Okay, so I didn't get to watch a lot of the first half, but I did watch most of the second and I did not see one fast break. It was all slow down offense and lockdown defense. Felt like watching the NBA during the Pistons/Knicks, during slick Pat's time.
Not saying it wasn't compelling, just saying that people on here have been arguing that they want a running team and slow ball is boring.
tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
Did you not see Butler pushing the ball down the floor on virtually every defensive rebound or steal?
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
Hayward was fouled hard on a fast break and a lot of Butler's points were scored on secondary transitions. They hardly ever got into the same mind-numbing offense we saw from Iowa. They pushed the ball a lot.
Iowa ran the elementary version of the Butler system.
Pushing the ball and then stopping at the top of the key and passing it around for 30 seconds. I did forget about Hayward's play, I actually missed it because I ran to the can, just saw the replay of the foul.
I agree that Butler plays the system way better than Iowa did this year. But it is still basically the same system.
They scored 59 points! Iowa scored 60 points per game!
It is slow down ball. They played it to near perfection, but it was still slow down ball.
Also, there were people on here that just wanted a faster pace of ball, they weren't asking for better execution, they just wanted more speed, because they thought games scored in the 50's and low 60's are boring.
Not saying I agree, but you have to see the inconsistency.
loesshillshawk
Well-Known Member
Butler does not run the same stuff Lick ran...watch them play. They always have someone around the rim sometimes two. They run a lot more handoffs out front and less on ball screening. THey will take a quick shot in transition if it is there. They play a lot different then Licks style.
imported_ankle23
Well-Known Member
you didn't watch very closely then. I'll give you one - did you see the duke guy foul the butler guy who was going for a layup on a fast break? The one where the butler guy got faceplanted?
storminspank
Justin VanLaere
That did not happen at all.
Butler was never in jeopardy of a shot clock violation at all last night. Most of their shots were up within 15-20 seconds.
59 points because they shot poorly and didn't get O boards, not because of tempo.
tubahawk
Well-Known Member
FreddyBrown
Moderator
That's my observation, too, but I don't claim to be a great x's-and-o's guy. I'd love to see a real expert break down the comparison, if any, between what the two teams try to do. Two big differences already pointed out above were sending guys to the offensive glass and running. And the basic offense just doesn't look anything like what we ran. Maybe it's all in what the personnel could do out of the offense, but the basic patterns didn't look familiar at all.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
I haven't been real impressed with Butler's offense all tournament. They play terrific D, and block out great but on offense there seems to be a lot of standing around or isolations for Hayward and Mack. If they're not shooting well they really struggle for points.
And this was a good game and fun to watch but I think people are going overboard calling it epic. It was pretty sloppy at a lot of points and watching Butler go long stretches without a field goal and Duke not being able to put them away doesn't mean it should count as an all time great game.
And this was a good game and fun to watch but I think people are going overboard calling it epic. It was pretty sloppy at a lot of points and watching Butler go long stretches without a field goal and Duke not being able to put them away doesn't mean it should count as an all time great game.
troy
Well-Known Member
Great point about the Butler "D." Butler's perimeter defense was amazing; their ability to get over screens and beat the Duke offensive players to the spot, and Butler had active hands without fouling, plus their guards boxed-out and went strong to the boards. Best perimeter defense that I have seen in a while.
tweeterhawk
Well-Known Member
The Butler post men did well getting around Zoubek but poor at actually putting the ball in the hole once there. Duke's 3s and 4s were outstanding at helping on shot defense and going for the block.
